Don't Care for Skills? A Homebrewed Alternative


Homebrew and House Rules

Silver Crusade

Ok, well, I might as well just dive in.

Skills are great! Skills are a well designed idea! That... just happens to be horrendously overused. Simply put, there are a number of skills which, do not grant sufficient return in their use to justify being skills.

When a player puts points into skills,they, by all rights, should expect to use them often.

I've seen Escape Artist used maybe once or twice in an entire campaign. That ain't enough of a justification.

Plenty of skills work fine, but I did some trimming.

Oh, but what alternative do I have to fill in the missing gap? To answer the hole in our lives, left by some of these skills?

Well, I brought back proficiencies for one.

Now, note that this isn't so much a "houserule" as it is a "system of houserules." which, are meant to work and interlock with one-another by design.

This rules system is primarily my own, though the idea was inspired by -C of Hack & Slash as well as LS of Papers and Pencils, and the weapon proficiencies were lifted from Unearthed Arcana, a 3.5 supplement.

Silver Crusade

Ok, to start off with, skills.

Skills
Except where otherwise noted, all of the mechanics of the skills listed below are otherwise unchanged.

Acrobatics: Catching oneself from a fall requires a Reflex check, rather than a climb or acrobatics check.

Appraise: Houseruled out. Replace with roleplaying or knowledge checks.

Bluff: Multiple checks per encounter, roleplaying grants heavy circumstance bonuses. Failure of a check merely makes the subject suspicious and less inclined to believe them. Players or characters can attempt opposed bluff checks to one another in an attempt to spot a lie, by observing common tells.

Feint as combat maneuver; references to sense motive in this context are replaced with CMD.

Climb: Houseruled out. See traits.

Craft: Houseruled out. See traits.

Diplomacy: Renamed to Influence. Successful influence checks can nudge a character reaction based upon the DM’s discretion. Roleplay still determines success or failure. Players may choose to substitute strength for Charisma when attempting to intimidate. Treat similarly to bluff. Intimidation as part of Influence now refers to the more subtle variety, along the lines of “Nice house you got there, shame if something were to happen to it” or “I doubt your military might can bypass our mightiest wizards. You really should reconsider.” More blunt and obvious forms of intimidation (such as physical threats.) should be left to DM arbitration.

Disable Device: Description of how to disarm the trap (in character, using in character knowledge.) grants a circumstance bonus at the DM’s discretion. Players wishing to set or construct traps may also present sketches illustrating how the trap functions for circumstance bonuses at the DM’s discretion.

Disguise: Houseruled out. Disguise is now an aspect of bluff, all references to disguise should be replaced with references to bluff.

Escape Artist: Houseruled out.

Fly: Houseruled out. All references to fly should be replaced with maneuverability where appropriate. DCs or skill bonuses of 10 represent average maneuverability. Increments of 5 represent other classes where appropriate. Players may take traits to improve their flight ability.

Handle Animal: Houseruled out. Players may train animals as they please; rangers and druids use the diplomacy skill for wild empathy checks. Diplomacy is now a class skill for rangers and druids.

Heal: DC changed to 10+ [current number of hitpoints below 0/ the DC given for the disease or poison in question]. Treating wounds, diseases and poisons now will cause the subject to worsen if the check fails, either worsening the illness, spreading the poison, or infecting the wound, raising the DC of the next check by +5 for every failed check, and causing secondary effects, such as leading to danger of gangrene, additional poison damage, or prematurely advancing the disease to the next stage if the check fails by 5 or more.

Intimidate: Houseruled out. Intimidation is now an aspect of diplomacy, all references to intimidate should be replaced with references to Influence.

Knowledge: Currently Unchanged.

Linguistics: Houseruled out. Forgeries are now detected with an opposed bluff or perception skill to the bluff skill of the forger. New languages can be learned with sufficient study, either by purchasing a guidebook with a price dependent upon the rarity of the language, or traveling with an individual whom speaks it, and is willing to tutor you. The character attempting to learn a new language must spend 8 hours of light activity, during which they may not craft magical items, study spells or other similar tasks. After 1 month of study, the character will be able to hold a conversation and read in the language. Characters can learn a maximum number of languages equal to twice their intelligence modifier.

Perception: Now separated into search and perception. Search is a roll made by the players and allows them the opportunity to discover secret doors, hidden switches, concealed compartments and the like, within 15 feet of themselves through thorough investigation of the area.

Successful rolls do not give players knowledge of how to open a door, merely its presence.

Perception is now a role made by the DM for certain characters, allowing them to notice fine details in NPCs, objects or the environment, as well as spotting stealthy characters or sleight-of-hand actions.

Trapspotter is no longer a rogue talent; it is now an aspect of the Trapfinding Class Ability. Rogues instantly notice a trap when passing within 15 feet of it, on a successful perception check.

Characters with 5 or more ranks in perception gain the ability to passively notice concealed secret doors when passing within 5 feet of them, similar to the elven racial feature, though with a decreased range
Preform: Houseruled out. Only bards may access this skill. Others may be able to perform some kind of entertainment, but do not have any access to, or need for, the skill.

Profession: Houseruled out. Professions are now traits.

Ride: Unchanged.

Sense Motive: Houseruled out. Perception checks can replace it in certain circumstances. Opposed bluff checks replace opposed sense motive checks.

Sleight of Hand: Unchanged.

Spellcraft: Unchanged.

Stealth: Addition of facing rules.

Survival: Unchanged

Swim: Houseruled out. Players now need to learn the trait Swimmer.

Use Magic Device: Unchanged.

Silver Crusade

Traits

Traits have now been expanded to better represent things that your character has chosen to devote a great deal of time to, such as his crafts, professions, hobbies and the like. The traits listed, bizarrely enough, in the traits section of the Advanced Player’s Guide are examples of this, as are languages, professions, background information, and basically things that define a character’s history, backstory or abilities, In short, things characters may gain by devoting time and effort to them.

Characters may attempt to gain certain types of traits at any time, or may have a trait (potentially either a detriment or a boon) inflicted upon them as the situation requires, perhaps representing a lost limb, a disfiguring scar, the patronage of a celestial, or simply an inordinate amount of luck.

In short, “trait” is a convenient catch-all term for things that do not comfortably fall into other categories.

Character Traits: Traits relating directly to the character, such as their background, previous training, racial influences and social standing. Character traits are further divided into;

Background Traits: Traits relating to the character’s backstory, which consists of the various combat, magical, faith, social, region, racial and campaign traits found in the Advanced Player’s Guide, as well as the new Profession traits.

If a player fails to roleplay to the traits he has chosen, the DM should feel free to remove their bonuses.

Profession Traits

Profession is no longer a skill, now having been changed to a trait, as a way of better representing it as an aspect of the character’s backstory.

Profession traits usually may grant bonuses to certain skills, or grant certain proficiency traits for free, reflecting the skills that one picks up as part of their employment.

In addition to the two traits taken at character creation, players must now choose a single profession trait, or more, if they so choose. At character creation, and only at character creation, a player may exchange 2 skillpoints for an additional Profession trait. Gnomes gain one profession trait for free at character creation, as well as two points to devote to an available craft skill of their choosing.

Profession traits either represent previous jobs that a character spent a number of years working at, or jobs with which they are currently employed. After a sufficient amount of time working a “day job” the DM may choose to grant the character an additional profession trait reflecting this.

Players should note that where the detriments of professions are concerned, they should feel free to petition for different ones (the same applying to story based bonuses and detriments, if they feel they do not suit the overall intention of the character they are attempting to create.) if they have a viable alternative applying to their chosen profession, as these are merely suggestions reflecting the various “job hazards” that they incur. At the DM’s fiat, players may, if they so choose, to spend a number of skillpoints to cancel out the penalties associated with their profession if applicable. Depending on the effect, there may be other ways to cure the detriments as well.

Silver Crusade

Proficiency Traits: Traits relating to what the character can do, what they know and certain skills they have. Players gain proficiency traits by devoting time to things such as linguistic studies and crafting skills.

Proficiency traits have associated mastery ranks, ranging anywhere from 1-4, to 1-3, reflecting a character’s relative skill with certain traits, each with associated benefits. Characters gain free proficiencies as part of choosing their profession traits. Characters may, if they wish, at character creation only, spend skill points to gain proficiency traits, at a cost of 1 skillpoint for a single mastery level in any proficiency, a further point for a second level of mastery, and an additional 2 points for a third level of mastery, representing experiences in their youth that taught them valuable skills in later life.

Proficiency traits have a certain amount of time, as well as potential storytelling and monetary costs associated with them. As an example a man wishing to learn a new language must either seek out a teacher, find a companion who speaks the language whom is willing to teach him, or purchase a guidebook in an effort to teach himself; of course, he cannot be taught to a higher proficiency than his teacher unless he teaches himself! The average cost to learn a single, common language to the point of being able to hold a conversation or read simple text, or learn the basics of a new craft usually is about the period of a single month occupying the majority of the character’s free time, (meaning that during this time he cannot be crafting or learning other things, though he may still adventure, travel and such, learning on the go), and commonly costing 1d20 gold if taught by a good teacher. Higher mastery levels are commensurately more expensive and time consuming. The DM should determine an appropriate cost and time period for each proficiency the player wishes to raise.

Crafting Traits: Traits relating to how characters create things. Crafting traits are an aspect of proficiency traits. Crafting now works rather differently. Characters are no longer obliged to gain certain item creation feats, though they are required to have certain item creation related traits, which in turn makes certain crafting skills, and a certain amount of skillpoints they can devote to each, available to them depending on their proficiency level. The crafting of magical items, of course requires a mage willing and capable of casting the spells, as well as devoting the necessary monetary costs associated with magical item creation. Permanency is of course, one of the required spells in most situations. To learn how to craft various things, players must learn how in a manner similar to languages, either by being taught by a professional, usually at a fee, or by being taken on as an apprentice, or by devoting a certain amount of gold and attempting to teach themselves by pure, blunt force trial and error.

A single rank (out of 4) of a craft proficiency allows the character to add 1-5 ranks to the associated craft skill, a second rank allows 6-10 and so on up to 20. Characters must have a full number of ranks to be sufficiently skilled to raise their crafting to the next rank of proficiency, meaning that a character with 1 rank of leatherworking must have 5 ranks in leatherworking to raise his leatherworking crafting trait to rank 2. Some characters will begin play with perhaps two, or even more ranks in a craft, but in any event, to raise their rank any further, they must reach the maximum number of skill ranks in their craft to train further.

Weapon Proficiency Traits: Traits relating to the weapons characters are trained in. Weapons in Pathfinder are divided into three categories, simple, martial and exotic. While this works well to establish the complexity of one against another, and balances a class’s abilities against those of others, in place of that rule, there are, instead, now a set of weapon group proficiencies. At character creation, players may pick a number of weapon proficiency traits dependent upon their class. Armor proficiency traits are earned the same as all other proficiencies, and are treated as weapon traits in all important respects. Druids are still unable to use metallic weapons.

As with all proficiency traits, players may, at character creation, exchange a skill point for a proficiency. They may not exchange skill points for proficiencies at any point after.

Characters attempting to use a weapon with which they are not proficient suffer a -4 penalty on all rolls with that weapon.

Weapon specific feats no longer focus on a single weapon, instead focusing on a single weapon group. As an example, a fighter who chooses to take weapon focus, and desires to use a long sword, would choose instead, the Weapon Focus (Heavy Blades) feat, as opposed to the Weapon Focus (Longsword) feat

Elves gain free proficiencies in (bow), and their choice of (heavy blades) or (light blades) and are automatically proficient with any item with elf in the name, such as curve blades.

Dwarves gain free proficiencies in (axes) and are proficient with all dwarven weapons, such as urgroshes and waraxes.

Gnomes have a free proficiency in the (picks and hammers) group, and are automatically proficient with any weapon with gnome in the name, such as hooked hammers.


Don't have time to analyze it in further detail atm (I'll return later with that) but I find Escape Artist used a LOT.

Profession (Baker)? Now that one needs a boost.

Silver Crusade

Class Weapon Group Proficiencies at 1st Level

Barbarian-Basic weapons, light armor, medium armor, shields, plus any other four

Bard-Basic weapons, light armor, medium armor, shields, plus any other three

Cleric-Basic weapons, light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, plus any other two

Druid-Basic weapons, light armor, medium armor, shields, plus any other three

Fighter-Basic weapons, light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, shields, plus any other five

Monk-Basic weapons, light armor, plus any other three

Paladin-Basic weapons, light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, shields, plus any other five

Ranger-Basic weapons, light armor, medium armor, shields, plus any other four

Rogue-Basic weapons, light armor, plus any other four

Sorcerer-Basic weapons, light armor, plus any other one

Wizard-Basic weapons, plus any other one

Silver Crusade

Profession Traits

Angler: The purview of fishermen, net-makers and fishmongers. At some point in your life, you worked as one of the above, and have become intimately familiar with the scents of the sea, salt and rotting fish entrails. The angler profession trait grants you 1 rank of the craft [cookery] trait, 2 ranks of the swim proficiency trait, a +2 circumstance bonus when cooking fish, as well as +1 bonus to all attacks made against aquatic, fish-like creatures. Unfortunately, the manic process of catching and gutting fish has either cost you a few digits, or left your hands covered in calluses, forcing you to take a -2 penalty on all sleight of hand checks.

Aristocrat: Rank and privilege graced your early life. Perhaps you were nobility, maybe a governor, or a mayor, a diplomat. In any event, you learned proper politicking fast, and those skills aid you in later life, with a +2 bonus to bluff, +1 to influence, 1 rank in craft [wordcraft] trait, 2 ranks in the skill knowledge [nobility] which is now a class skill for you, and you are either trained in the use of poisons (and thus cannot poison yourself when using them) or you gain a +1 fortitude bonus from personal experience “dealing with them”. Being part of the aristocracy leaves little time for practical experience however, and as a result you take a -2 penalty to knowledge [local OR nature OR geography].

Artisan: In your youth you were a sculptor, potter, painter or a glassblower, the heat of the crucible and the flow of paint from a brush left vivid marks on your personality and body. Accordingly, you get 2 ranks of the craft [paint OR sculpt OR glassblowing] trait, two points of resist fire if you were a glassblower, a +1 sleight of hand bonus if you were a painter, or a free rank of knowledge [dungeoneering] if you were a sculptor, in addition, you get a +2 bonus to perception, a free rank of knowledge [nobility], due to your familiarity with your many noble patrons.

Brewer: The scent of beer, malted barley, crushed grapes and grain alcohol dominated your formative years. You learned the art of crafting alcohol at someone’s knee. The brewer profession trait grants you 1 rank of the craft [alchemy] trait, 1 rank of the craft [cookery] trait, and a +4 circumstance bonus to perception checks to notice poisons in drinks and impurities in water, as well as +1 circumstance bonus on fortitude checks made to resist disease. However, years of imbibing poison has left you particularly susceptible to it, forcing you take a -1 on fortitude checks made to resist poison.

Carpenter: The prerogative of carpenters, woodworkers, coopers and lumberjacks, the crack of falling trees or the sawing of wood, the rich scent of pines and ash formed your earliest recollection. Consequently you gain 2 ranks of craft [woodworking], a free rank of knowledge [nature OR geography OR local] a +1 circumstance bonus to survival when attempting to keep from getting lost, and either proficiency in [axes] OR you automatically bypass 3 points of hardness when attempting to destroy a wooden object, due to your extensive understanding of where precisely to hit it.

Chirurgeon: The prerogative of surgeons, midwives and nurses, you spent your formative years caring for others; triage is nothing new to you, and blood stains your hands not from dealing death, but by giving life. As a consequence, you receive 2 free ranks of heal, which, for you is now a class skill, if it wasn’t before. You also gain 1 rank of the craft [tailory] trait, 1 rank of the craft [alchemy] trait, and a +1 bonus on rolls to confirm critical hits on non-aberration, humanoid creatures, due to your extensive understanding of their anatomy.

Clerk: In your youth you were a banker, a clerk, an accountant, a record-keeper. Quills and ink, stacks of paper and ledgers dominated the landscape of your formative years. Accordingly, you gain 2 ranks of the craft [wordcraft] trait, 2 ranks of a language [any common], an extra rank of knowledge [any] skill, and a +1 circumstance bonus to influence and bluff checks when dealing with bureaucrats, due to your familiarity with red tape.

Cook: Cookery is the domain of, bizarrely enough, chefs, bakers, butchers, street food vendors, and the like. At some point in your life, you made food. Baking bread, bloody tools and hanging racks of meat surrounded you on a daily basis. As a result, you gain 2 ranks of the craft [cookery] trait, a +2 bonus to influence checks when haggling, and your choice of either +1 bonus on all attacks made with a dagger, knife or cleaver, or a +4 circumstance bonus to perception when discerning poisons in food, years of tasting your own cooking has left you a bit overfond of food in general however, and you often end up buying more than is entirely thrifty or healthy, spending 20% more on food and board.

Engineer: In your early life, you were an architect, a mason, or a machinist. Buildings rose under your pencil, stones climbed at your command, shaped by your chisel, accordingly, you are trained in 2 ranks of either the craft [machinery OR masonry] trait, you also gain a free rank of knowledge [dungeoneering], which is now a class skill for you, a +2 circumstance bonus to disable device checks to disable traps, and, much like an elf, when passing within 15 feet of a secret door, you have a chance to automatically perceive it, assuming you make a successful perception check.

Entertainer: You were an entertainer, Mimes, singers, circus folk, acrobats, animal trainers, jesters, and musicians, were your peers, your family. Consequently, you gain 1 rank perform [any], a reflex +1 insight bonus related to various stage tricks of your choice, a rank of the climb trait, and a +2 bonus to sleight of hand.

Farmer: The concern of farmers, orchardists and millers, a farmer is a man who lives off his own hard work, sweat and toil. As a result, you gain 1 rank of the craft [cookery] trait, 1 free rank of Knowledge [nature], which is now a class skill for you if it wasn’t before, as well as a +1 general fortitude bonus, reflecting the, at times, hard and unforgiving nature of farm-life. Life in the fields however left little time for book learning, and as such you take a -2 penalty in the knowledge [history] skill.

Fletcher: At some point you were a fletcher. Goose feathers, glue, the scent of freshly cut wood and the rhythmic snap and thump of the bow and arrow formed the foundation of your childhood. Bowyers and fletchers were your peers and compatriots, and over time you took to the trade, learning 2 ranks of craft [bowing] and a rank of the craft [woodworking] trait. In addition, you also gain a proficiency in [bows OR crossbows] if you didn’t have one or the other already, and, you possess one arrow that is your pride and joy, a single arrow of slaying meant for a single individual of your choice, and for reasons left to your determination.

Herbalist: You are familiar with herbalism, the chosen vocation of apothecaries, herb-maidens and chemists. Years of grinding herbs, caring for the sick, and occasionally, when times were lean, eating your own medicines to survive, have made you skilled and exceptionally hardy. As a consequence, you gain 2 ranks of the craft [alchemy] trait, 1 rank of the craft [cookery] trait, a plus +3 bonus on fortitude checks made to resist and fight off diseases, and a +1 bonus to all heal checks you make. However, years of imbibing your own medicines has made you partially immune to them, and any health potion you drink heals 10% (rounded down) less damage than usual.

Hunter: The woods were your home. You were a hunter, a poacher, a trapper; trapping and skinning hides was your life. Accordingly, you gain 1 rank of the craft [leatherwork] trait, a free rank of survival, which, for you is now a class skill, if it wasn’t already. You also gain a +1 on all damage rolls made against natural creatures and animals, due to your familiarity with hunting them.

Jeweler: Light shining through facets, carefully chipping at a stone worth more you’re your own workshop, painstakingly bending hot wire around a cut jewel, experiences like these are the ones that stick most in your mind. Jewelers and gemcutters formed your peers. As a result, you have 2 ranks of the craft [gemcutting] trait, 1 rank of the craft [metalwork] metalwork trait, you gain a +5 insight bonus when appraising the value of a gem, a free rank of knowledge [nobility], and you may begin play with either an extra 400 gold pieces OR the patronage of some powerful individual, who may grant you benefits, boons, or make requests.

Merchant: The clink of coin, the murmur of the marketplace, and the shouting of the hawker’s block, all of it remains music to your ears. In your youth, you were a merchant, a salesman, a caravaneer, a man of coin. In later life, this manifests as a +4 bonus to both influence and bluff when haggling, a +5% bonus on selling prices, -5% discount on buying prices, 1 rank of craft [any] trait, and for you, influence is now a class skill if it wasn’t already. Years of your salesmanship have left you seeming a bit greasy and dishonest to many folks, and as such you take a -2 penalty to all influence checks when NOT haggling.
Miner: The clanging of picks, the long falls, the dangers inherent to a mine, it matters not what you dug for, merely that you did. Survival in the mines taught you, and as such you have 2 ranks of the climb trait, 1 rank of the craft [metalwork] trait, a proficiency with [picks and hammers], and an innate knowledge of geography, from up close and personal examination, represented as a free rank of knowledge [geography], which is now a class skill for you if it wasn’t already. Unfortunately, the dust and poisonous gasses of the mines has permanently impacted your health, forcing you to take a -1 fortitude penalty on all fortitude checks.

Professional Criminal: Cat-burglars, pickpockets, lockpicks, and screwsmen alike, you were a professional criminal in your youth. In later life, you remain shaped by your experiences on the street, your reflexes are faster (a +1 reflex bonus faster, in fact.), and your familiarity with locks and sneaking gives you a rank of disable device, +2 circumstance bonus to stealth when hiding in shadow, 1 rank of craft [machinery], 1 rank of the craft [metalwork] trait OR 1 rank of the climb trait OR 2 ranks of sleight of hand, however your previous “exploits” have left you a marked man in a city of your choice, meaning that you are unwelcome there, and that they may, at some point, send agents to apprehend you if you become notorious enough.

Sailor: The sea is your home, tar stained your hands from an early age, You’ve drunk with sailors, pirates, and dockhands, and as such, you have 2 ranks in the swim trait, 1 rank of the climb trait, +1 insight bonus to reflex saves to avoid falling objects, immunity to seasickness, and proficiency in [axes OR light blades]. However, spending your formative years amongst uncouth seadogs has left you a bit… foul-mouthed, and you take a -4 penalty to influence checks when amongst men and women of “quality”

Scrivener: Scholars, writers, historians and teachers. Those are the best names to describe your early line of work. The scratching of quills, the crack of a stern teacher’s pointer, and the scent of aged paper, these are your earliest memories, and as a consequence of having shaped your experiences, you gain 2 ranks of the craft [wordcraft] trait, 1 rank of the craft [papermaking] trait, a free rank in a knowledge skill of your choice, as well as a free rank in any other knowledge skill of your choosing. You also have a rudimentary knowledge (rank 1) of a rare dialect of your choosing, including secret ones at the DM’s approval. Your cloistered youth has left you a bit naïve of the real world however, and accordingly, you must take a -2 penalty on all survival and knowledge [local] checks.

Soldier: Earlier in your life, you served in the military. Caravan guards, mercenaries, guardsmen, militias, and the like influenced your life, military discipline leaving its mark on you. Due to your training, you gain a +1 influence when intimidating, 1 extra weapon proficiency, +1 will all will saves from the years of disciplined drilling, and 1 rank of craft [weapon OR armor] trait. However, the necessary honor system has left your skills at dissembling a bit… light; forcing you to take a -2 penalty on all bluff checks you make when lying.

Smith: Armorers and swordsmiths formed your peers. The ring of steel, the glow of cherry red metal burns as brightly in your mind now as the forge fires did years ago. Much like the forge fires of your youth, memories of your craft burn in your mind now, granting you 2 ranks of the craft [weapon OR Armor OR Metalwork] trait, 2 points of fire resistance, a +4 bonus to perception checks to recognize counterfeit metallic items, and a +1 to rolls to confirm critical hits (if weaponsmith), OR -3 to armor check penalty (if armorsmith), OR a+1 knowledge [geography] (if metalworker).

Stablehand: Hay, the stink of animals, and the sound of clip clops was the soundtrack to your childhood. Stable-boys, grooms, horse trainers, ranchers and shepherds made up your peers, and you spent your time caring for animals. Accordingly, you gain 2 free ranks of the Ride skill, one rank of craft [leatherwork] trait, you are proficient in [spears and lances] if you weren’t already, and you gain a +6 influence check to calm an upset animal.

Tailor: Needle and thread are your lifeblood. The skills of tailors, weavers and embroiderers, craft [tailory] run in your mind and memory. Accordingly, you have 2 ranks in the craft [tailory] trait, A +3 circumstance bonus to the heal skill when stitching up wounds, a +2 circumstance bonus to the knowledge [dungeoneering] skill when examining things related to tapestry-work, embroidery and the like, and, due to your skill in making such things, the clothes you begin play with are riddled with 5 secret pockets in various places; filled with your money and personal items, which, when emptied, allow you to easily conceal small items on your person.

Tanner: The acrid stink of tannin, animal hides and fresh leather form some of your earliest memories, Tanners, leatherworkers and cobblers were your peers, the creation of leather goods your trade. Due to years of practice and training, you have gained 2 ranks of craft [leatherwork OR cobbling], +1 bonus to AC when wearing leather armor due to your familiarity with it, knowing it from the inside and out, a +1 bonus to ride checks when using a saddle. -4 perception checks when attempting to notice scent based things, due to years of tanning slowly stealing your sense of smell from you.

Silver Crusade

Proficiency Traits

Swimmer: You are proficient at waterborne activities. Swim speeds are identical to land speeds. Characters that cannot swim begin to drown after a number of rounds equal to their strength modifier without some form of aid or flotation device. Characters with medium encumbrance or wearing medium armor are not able to swim, and begin drowning after 1 round. Heavily armored or encumbered characters cannot swim, and begin to drown immediately. Creatures specifically adapted to aquatic environments, or characters making use of special equipment are treated as aquatic creatures.

Aquatic creatures are treated using the flight rules when engaged in underwater combat.

Rank 1: You know some things about how to avoid drowning. You can doggy paddle at best. You cannot swim with any considerable alacrity, and do so slowly, moving at a ¼ of your land speed in water.

Rank 2: You are a trained swimmer and have familiarized yourself with the processes and actions of doing so. You may move at half your land speed when swimming, and cannot drown unless knocked unconscious, or you are wearing medium (or heavier) armor.

Rank 3: You are a champion among swimmers, and may use your full land speed when swimming. You may swim at your full land speed with no difficulty.

Aerialist: You are skilled at airborne maneuvers. Magic users using the Flight spell always have a maneuverability of at least average, unless their dexterity is below 15, in which case they drop 1 class for every 6 points below 15, to an obvious minimum of Clumsy.

Rank 1: Your maneuverability is average. (Equal to 5 points in the “Fly” skill.)

Rank 2: Your maneuverability is good. (Equal to 10 points in the “Fly” skill.)

Rank 3: Your maneuverability is perfect. (Equal to 15 points in the “Fly” skill.)

Mountaineer: You are a trained climber. When attempting particularly difficult maneuvers while climbing, made a roll with a d20 and compare it to your strength score, a roll less than your strength score is a success. Attempts to climb in armor require the armor check penalties to be applied to their strength score for the purposes of climbing checks. Untrained characters must halve their strength scores for this purpose. Sheer, smooth surfaces cannot be scaled without appropriate equipment; grappling hooks, ropes, pitons and the like are a necessity. Attempts to scale a particularly sheer wall without the aid of equipment require a strength check, or may, at the player’s option, require a dexterity check instead.

Rank 1: Characters with a strength modifier of +2 or higher climb at half their ground speed. Modifiers of +1 or lower climb at one quarter their ground speed. Characters with modifiers of -2 or lower cannot exceed more than one eighth their ground speed. You lose your dexterity bonus to AC while climbing.

Rank 2: Characters with a strength modifier of +2 or higher climb at their full ground speed. Characters with modifiers of +1 or lower climb at half their ground speed. Characters with modifiers of -2 or lower cannot exceed more than one quarter of their land speed.

Rank 3: Characters with a strength modifier of +2 or higher climb at one and one half times their ground speed. Characters with strength modifiers of +1 climb at their full ground speed. Characters with modifiers of -2 or lower climb at half their ground speed. You do not lose your AC bonus from dexterity while climbing.

Language: You are skilled at the usage of a particular language. At first level, every bonus language given to the players is at Rank 2.

Rank 1: You understand a smattering of the language, and can read, write, and hold a conversation in it. Less common words, regional variations and older dialects will still elude you. You speak with an accent.

Rank 2: You are now fluent in the language. You can read, write and speak in the language, and understand regional dialects with proficiency. Older dialects are still beyond your understanding.

Rank 3: You are now entirely fluent in the language, and can speak, understand and read anything written in it, no matter how old. You speak perfectly and without an accent.

Perform: You are skilled in some variety of entertainment, whether it is comedy, oratory, an instrument of some form, or the written word. Bards do not require this trait, as for them perform is a class feature. Instead, perform is treated as a skill for them as normal. For others, this is just a generic representation of their skill with a form of entertainment. Amateurish quantities of skill as an entertainer require no trait; this trait is merely a reflection of more prodigious or impressive amounts of talent or training.

Rank 1: You are adequate at your chosen perform, your skill being considered “passable” at worst. Dependent on your chosen perform, and the DM’s discretion, you may gain a +2 circumstance bonus to rolls related to your chosen perform, such as a paladin trained in oratory attempting to use Influence to rally a group of soldiers, or a thief skilled in comedy attempting to appear unthreatening to an enemy using bluff.

Rank 2: You are skilled at your chosen perform; you demonstrate a good amount of practice and a bit of flair. Your circumstance bonuses in related situations increase to +4.

Rank 3: You are a superlative entertainer, and are widely regarded as such by your audience. Your appropriate circumstance bonuses increase to +6.


One thing though, it's very hard to evaluate the house rules when we don't know why they're there. It'd be nice with a little more substantial explanation of the percieved problem, the general solution, and how your house rules are steps towards that solution. I've read your first post twice now and I still don't really know why you change the skill system - other than that you don't like the system and that some skills aren't used enough. If the main issue is that skills aren't used enough, aren't there easier solutions? (such as empowering the skills, consolidating them, or turning some into level checks (profession, I'm looking at you))

Silver Crusade

Armor Proficiency Traits

Light Armor: You are proficient with light armors, such as padded armor, leather, studded leather and chainmail shirts.

Medium Armor: You are proficient with medium armors, such as scale mail, chainmail, splint mail, breastplates and ring-mail.

Heavy Armor: You are proficient with heavy armors, such as half plate and full plate.

Shields: You are proficient with shields.

Tower Shields: You are proficient with tower shields.

Weapon Proficiency Traits

Basic Weapons: You understand how to make effective use of the club, dagger and quarterstaff.

Bows: You understand how to use the shortbow, longbow and composite longbow

Claw Weapons: You understand how to make use of weapons strapped to your hands, such as punching daggers and spiked gauntlets.

Crossbows: You are proficient with crossbows, such as heavy crossbows, light crossbows, repeating crossbows, double crossbows

Exotic Double Weapons: You understand how to use double weapons, such as the double flail, double ended sword and double axe. You must have a proficiency in the base weapon or you still suffer the -4 penalty. players attempting to use a double weapon without proficiency in double weapons or the base weapon must take a -8 penalty.

Flails and Chains: You are skilled in the use of weapons that make use of chains, such as flails and chain-like weapons.

Heavy Blades: You are skilled in the use of large bladed weapons, such as falchions, greatswords, kopeshs, scimitars and bastard swords.

Light Blades: You are skilled in the use of light blades, such as daggers, short swords, rapiers and sabers.

Maces and Clubs: You are skilled in the use of clubs, maces, saps and mauls.

Picks and Hammers: You are proficient with picks, hammers, warhammers, scythes and Lucerne hammers.

Polearms: You are proficient in the use of glaives, guisarmes, halberds, ranseurs and pikes.

Slings and Thrown Weapons: You are familiar with dart and sling weapons.

Spears and Lances: You understand the use of spears, lances and javelins.

Crafting Traits

Alchemy: You are skilled at the mixing of potions and alchemical tools.

Enchantment: You are a skilled enchanter. If you have no ranks in this proficiency you may only apply one enchantment effect to an object, and you are limited to magic item costs of 5000 gp.

Rank 1: You are able to apply two enchanting effects to an object, and may create items worth up to 10,000 gp.

Rank 2: You are able to apply four enchanting effects to an object, and may create items worth up to 50,000 gp.

Rank 3: You are able to apply up to 8 enchanting effects to an object, and may create items worth up to 1,000,000 gp.

Rank 4: You are able to apply up to 16 enchanting effects to an object, and have no monetary limit to the items you may make.

Cookery: You are skilled at the creation and preparation of food for human consumption. This skill is based on wisdom or intelligence.

Armorsmith: You are skilled at the creation of metal armor. This skill is based on strength.

Weaponsmith: You are trained in the creation of weapons. This skill is based on strength.

Machinery: You are proficient in the creation of booby-traps and complex mechanisms. This skill is based on dexterity or intelligence.

Bowing: You are skilled in the creation of bows, crossbows and ammunition for each. This skill is based on dexterity.

Leatherworking: You are skilled at the processes of tanning, creating fittings, saddles, fittings and leather or animal hide based armor. This skill is based on dexterity.

Glassblowing: You are skilled at glassblowing, meaning the creation of all types of glassware. This skill is based on constitution or dexterity.

Papermaking: You are familiar with the processes of creating paper. This skill is based on dexterity.

Gemcutting: You are trained in the cutting and shaping of precious and semiprecious stones. This skill is based on intelligence or dexterity.

Masonry: You are trained in the processes of stonecutting and architecture. This skill is based on intelligence or strength.

Wordcraft: You are skilled at the creation of poetry, writing, plays, novels and books. This skill is based on intelligence or charisma.

Tailory: You are trained in the creation of clothing, tapestry and embroidery. This skill is based on dexterity.

Cobbling: You are skilled in the creation of shoes, boots and slippers. This skill is based on dexterity.

Painting: You are trained in the processes of painting, fresco and calligraphy. This skill is based on dexterity or charisma.

Brewing: You are initiated into the creation of alcoholic beverages. This skill is based on wisdom or constitution.

Sculpting: You are a skilled sculptor or potter. This skill is based on wisdom.

Woodworking: You are skilled at the generation of woodcuts, whittling and carpentry. This skill is based on dexterity or wisdom.

Metalwork: You are skilled at the processes of drawing wire, creating settings for stones, forging rings, and various metallic odds and ends. This skill is based on wisdom or dexterity.

Silver Crusade

stringburka wrote:
One thing though, it's very hard to evaluate the house rules when we don't know why they're there. It'd be nice with a little more substantial explanation of the percieved problem, the general solution, and how your house rules are steps towards that solution. I've read your first post twice now and I still don't really know why you change the skill system - other than that you don't like the system and that some skills aren't used enough. If the main issue is that skills aren't used enough, aren't there easier solutions? (such as empowering the skills, consolidating them, or turning some into level checks (profession, I'm looking at you))

Alright then, if you insist.

Some skills, such as escape artist (which in my own personal experience I have NEVER seen used) are not used enough to justify their own existence, meaning that the points the player has devoted to them have been basically wasted.

When a player spends points on a skill, he expects to make use of that skill, at least somewhat regularly.

Some skills, such as sense motive, are merely unnecessary, as you can see above, some skills I managed to fold into oneanother pretty easily with little difference. Using perception to notice "hey, that guy is sweating pretty heavily while saying this outrageous stuff to me is an indicator he's a liar!" is far more interesting and a far better example of roleplaying than "my sense motive says this man is lying to me." since it's something the CHARACTER would actually notice. (I suggest looking up The Alexandrian's Essay on Disassociated Mechanics, it's a pretty good explanation of what I'm talking about.)

Others, like Fly are just... ugh. Think of every time you've used climb. Was making multiple checks to climb a wall ever exciting? Was the skill ever used for anything else? No. The only time climb is ever exciting is ; A)when it fails, or B) when time is an issue. Do we really need a skill to represent this, acting as a mere sink for more points when the player could certainly be spending their skillpoints on something they will use regularly?

And some as with sense motive, I took out due to the fact they hurt roleplaying. Rolling bluff instead of interacting with the character, rolling intimidate rather than saying things like; "I pull out my sword and point it at his jugular." or, one of the greater offenders, perception.

Perception, as in the ability to notice things is by it's definition, fairly passive, either you notice something or you don't. As far as the game is concerned, well, it really is all about the players for the most part, and simply put, something they don't notice effectively doesn't exist. If they make a perception check and notice some hidden treasure, so what, it's just some treasure they didn't have a minute ago.

Perception had, pretty well for my group, replaced interaction with the environment. This is the alternative, players notice things passively, the DM rolls regularly for them, only when they are actively searching for something like a hollow table leg to they roll their own perception, and yet it gets to be used for so many things.

Admittedly, some of these put a bit more responsibility on the DM's heavy brow, but all of them are meant to streamline things, to remove some things that manage to cover each other pretty well already.

And besides, it's fun. My group thus far likes these houserules well enough.

I have a few other reasons, but if you like a more succinct explanation of why I did what I did, check out this; http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2011/11/on-skill-deconstruction-why-rol l-for.html and this;http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/04/11/overview-of-pathfinders-skills -introduction/


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I still don't get it, I think. I get the "some skills are used more than others", but I first I don't get how sleight of hand is considered a vital skill while escape artist is never used... That's just so far away from my experience. And then it seems like the skill/trait system gets so very, very complicated for an issue that (from what I read in the H&S and P&P) could be solved with liberal usage of the Take 10/20 rules and a little skill rebalancing.

EDIT: And I absolutely dislike the idea that "if it can be modeled at the table it shouldn't be a skill". "roleplay" can very easily be used as a reasoning for actually removing the "role" from the word - if I'm a shy guy that stutters, and want to roleplay a dazzling charmer, the bluff/diplomacy skills allow me to do that. If I'm supposed to "roleplay" the scenario (as in, disregard the skills and use my own acting talent instead), I won't be able to play my role and I'll get restricted to playing myself.

Silver Crusade

stringburka wrote:
I still don't get it, I think. I get the "some skills are used more than others", but I first I don't get how sleight of hand is considered a vital skill while escape artist is never used... That's just so far away from my experience. And then it seems like the skill/trait system gets so very, very complicated for an issue that (from what I read in the H&S and P&P) could be solved with liberal usage of the Take 10/20 rules and a little skill rebalancing.

Think of it like this.

Sleight of hand is an extremely chancy thing that could go either radically right, or radically wrong. Therefore, a die is a pretty good representation of it.

Escape artist is something that... well, let me quote LS of Papers and Pencils, who mirrors my thoughts on the subject;

LS wrote:

This is a skill which rarely comes up in the game because it is only useful in stupidly specific situations. Just how often are the players going to be bound, manacled, or in a tight space? Hint: if it’s happening often enough to justify this skill, then it’s happening too often. The only other use for Escape Artist is to escape from a grapple, but it’s only the secondary method of performing that task. It’s as though they were writing the grapple rules, and realized “Oh, hey, if people have points in Escape Artist, they’ll wonder why they can’t use that to escape.”

The worst part about this skill is that if you take a moment to break down the mechanic, you realize that the entire thing is absolutely meaningless, even in those few situations when it would ostensibly be useful. Unless a character is pressed for time or actively being threatened, they can simply take 20 on their roll. And while you can probably imagine a few situations where a character would be pressed for time, or threatened, those few situations would be even more uncommon than being bound, manacled, or in a tight space in the first place. When a character takes 20, they’ve done the absolute best that they can possibly do. So either the character succeeds and frees themselves from the bonds, or fails and the bonds are proven to be impossible to wiggle free from.

Which brings me to another problem with Escape Artist: it’s not even comprehensive! You would think that when a skill is only useful in an extremely specific situation, it would at least cover that situation thoroughly, but Escape Artist doesn’t. It only counts if you’re attempting to wiggle your way free of bonds, not if you’re attempting to break them with sheer strength, or cut them on a nearby blade. So why not simply combine Escape Artist into Acrobatics, if it must be a skill at all?

Personally, I like -C’s thoughts on this skill. Make “Escape Artist” a class skill of some kind for rogues and monks. Everyone else can either take an “Escape Artist” feat, or try to escape using their wits.


Escape Artist lets you escape grapples even if your BaB, Strength and Dex are mediocre. About every wizard I've seen has put it at at the very least 1/2 level ranks, more often maxing it out. A lot of rogues, bards, non-stupid clerics and druids too.

In addition, anyone who enjoys flying should have this to counter Nets, which can otherwise be quite dangerous.

And let's not ever forget Entangle. Entangle is a fantastic spell that this skill nullifies.

Actually, unless the group packs a rogue, I probably see more escape artist checks (even if not counting take 10/take 20's) in the average adventure than I see sleight of hands in a whole campaign.

And I don't see the point of stating that "because you can take 20 this is irrelevant as a skill"... First they are saying that skills are too random to be useful, then they aknowledge that there is a way (actually two ways) to use them without the randomness - and then say that a skill is bad because you can often use it without the randomness? What?

I mean, if they are, say, set in manacles then the skill is very useful! If you've put nothing in it and have average dexterity, you can't escape manacles. If you're an agile rogue that's put a few points into it (dex 18, 3 ranks + 3 class) you can get out of standard manacles in 20 minutes by taking 20. If you're really good at it (+15) you can even get out of masterwork manacles in 20 minutes! As an expert escape artist (+20) you can get out of manacles in a single minute (by taking 10)!
So in what way does reducing the roll variance affect the usefulness of a skill or the design of it as a skill?

I'm all for skipping rolling the dice for something that the character can do without risk, when there's no big penalty for failing or they're not in a hurry. That is what the take 10 and take 20 rules do!

EDIT: And I mean, stupidly specific situations? We've got like half a bestiary just of grappling monsters! That monk grappling the wizard? The wizard can escape artist! The cleric being chewed on by a dragon? Escape artist! The flying synthesist getting hammered with nets? Better make that check quickly or you're going down!

It feels as if those writing this have very, very different tactics in their game than we have in ours (and looking at the builds and suggestions around the forum, I'm not alone in this)

Silver Crusade

stringburka wrote:

Escape Artist lets you escape grapples even if your BaB, Strength and Dex are mediocre. About every wizard I've seen has put it at at the very least 1/2 level ranks, more often maxing it out. A lot of rogues, bards, non-stupid clerics and druids too.

In addition, anyone who enjoys flying should have this to counter Nets, which can otherwise be quite dangerous.

And let's not ever forget Entangle. Entangle is a fantastic spell that this skill nullifies.

Actually, unless the group packs a rogue, I probably see more escape artist checks (even if not counting take 10/take 20's) in the average adventure than I see sleight of hands in a whole campaign.

And I don't see the point of stating that "because you can take 20 this is irrelevant as a skill"... First they are saying that skills are too random to be useful, then they aknowledge that there is a way (actually two ways) to use them without the randomness - and then say that a skill is bad because you can often use it without the randomness? What?

I mean, if they are, say, set in manacles then the skill is very useful! If you've put nothing in it and have average dexterity, you can't escape manacles. If you're an agile rogue that's put a few points into it (dex 18, 3 ranks + 3 class) you can get out of standard manacles in 20 minutes by taking 20. If you're really good at it (+15) you can even get out of masterwork manacles in 20 minutes! As an expert escape artist (+20) you can get out of manacles in a single minute (by taking 10)!
So in what way does reducing the roll variance affect the usefulness of a skill or the design of it as a skill?

I'm all for skipping rolling the dice for something that the character can do without risk, when there's no big penalty for failing or they're not in a hurry. That is what the take 10 and take 20 rules do!

EDIT: And I mean, stupidly specific situations? We've got like half a bestiary just of grappling monsters! That monk grappling the wizard? The wizard can escape artist! The cleric being chewed on by a...

Which is why, in my case, I felt that the concept was far better represented as a feat;

Escape Artiste: You are especially skilled and capable at the act of escaping from bondage. Whenever tied up, shackled or otherwise bound, you gain a +4 circumstance bonus to checks directly relating to escaping your bonds, such as a +4 to disable device checks to pick the lock of your shackles, but not the lock of your cell, or a bonus to your reflexes to more quickly work your way out of a set of ropes. You also gain a +2 circumstance bonus to all CMD rolls to escape a grapple. This feat may be taken a maximum of three times.

But more to the point, while you can argue in favor of a single skill like Escape Artist, I highly doubt you could argue that every other skill, like sense motive or linguistics could not be better represented by other skills, or indeed, other representations entirely.


Well everything could be changed to feats, but what's the point? I don't see how it's better to make a 3-rank skill that gives +4 for every rank rather than a 20-rank skill that gives +1 for each rank.

And sense motive also works as a skill. While I could see that rolled into perception, it'd probably be too good as both are top-choice skills. You just state that perception is unnecessary without explaining why. Why is sensing someone's true intentions unnecessary? In some ways it could be integrated into perception, but perception is already the no-brainer skill for every character in existance so it doesn't need to get better. It could be rolled into bluff I guess, since it's often used to counter bluff. And it could stay separated - it's still a skill that sees much use.

Why is it unnecessary? Just stating that it is doesn't mean much.

Linguistics is a very campaign-dependant skill, and gets somewhat redundant through the use of Comprehend Languages and Tongues. That's more of an issue with spells being too good than the skill though, IMO. I do agree that skills may not be the best representation of it, and in that case I may prefer your version or something similar. It's a very odd skill in many ways, though.

In my experience, these are skills that a LOT of characters considers maxing:

Spoiler:
Acrobatics, Perception (most characters max this), Escape Artist, Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate, Spellcraft, Stealth, Use Magic Device.

These are maxed by specific characters depending on build:
Ride, Knowledge (arcana, religion, planes), disable device, Disguise, Fly, Handle Animal, Perform, Sense Motive, Craft (alchemy).

These seem to get a few points here and there by many:
Knowledge (all others), Climb, Craft (some), Heal, Linguistics, Sleight of Hand, Survival, Swim.

These, very few take/are pretty useless:
Appraise, Profession, Craft (most)

personal thoughts on skill rebalancing, short version:

Basically, I agree that skills would benefit from better balance. Perception would maybe be better as a stat or moving some of it's uses over to sense motive, because it's such a no-brainer right now. Profession skills need to be dropped completely and replaced with a level roll. Crafting should probably be merged based on main material rather than having a sh*tload of crafting skills never used. Appraise should be rolled into respective crafting skills.

It's like the people doing the analysis' at H&S and P&P part of the time ignore that take 10/20 exists and part of the time complain that they do. From the P&P articles, for example, they first complain that:

Spoiler:

"if a GM calls for an Acrobatics check every time the game would technically require it, then rolling would get extremely tedious. Balancing and jumping are often simple tasks. Much of the time, a roll shouldn’t be required"

As an example, they take moving along a narrow ledge shouldn't require a new roll every 15 feet... Which it doesn't do unless someone's attacking you or similar stress. A narrow ledge 7 inches or more in width does not require rolls at all, and if you have at least basic training in acrobatics or is agile (+5) you don't need to roll for anything at least 2 inches unless under attacked (take 10).


And then they complain on disable device:
Spoiler:
I dislike the fact that “you should always take 20 when picking locks” is a kind of unwritten rule. It’s crap like that which serves as a barrier to new players trying to understand the game. As a lover of rogues myself, it took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out that the skill was balanced around taking 20. It’s almost as though the game is trying to force you to learn to manipulate the system. But the simple solution to that is just to inform your rogue players that they’ll want to take 20.

Well, maybe the reason it's embarrassing is because _the game tells you this is works_. Like, it's not as if the skill section doesn't tell you: "Common “take 20” skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps)."

Damned if you don't, damned if you do.

Also, forcing players to come up with HOW they disable the trap instead of letting their character come up with the HOW is a bit like forcing the fighter to say HOW they stab the monster and then decide success or failure based on if you've put that as a weak spot in your notes. "I swing at the ogre!" "Well, where do you aim?" "I aim for it's chest!" "Sorry, it guards it's chest well, you fail."

And again, first ze complains that disable device "serves as a barrier to new players". Well, if I had a new player, especially one who maybe isn't that good at solving puzzles personally (but wants to roleplay someone who is awesome at it), telling the player a complicated trap design and assume the PLAYER will solve it on risk of death... Yeah.

Damned if you don't, damned if you do.

I'm not saying the skills system is perfect, but I disagree on about every level with their analysis as it's often self-contradictory and takes the game in a direction it REALLY shouldn't go (causing player skill to replace character skill... yugh.)

Silver Crusade

stringburka wrote:

Well everything could be changed to feats, but what's the point? I don't see how it's better to make a 3-rank skill that gives +4 for every rank rather than a 20-rank skill that gives +1 for each rank.

And sense motive also works as a skill. While I could see that rolled into perception, it'd probably be too good as both are top-choice skills. You just state that perception is unnecessary without explaining why. Why is sensing someone's true intentions unnecessary? In some ways it could be integrated into perception, but perception is already the no-brainer skill for every character in existance so it doesn't need to get better. It could be rolled into bluff I guess, since it's often used to counter bluff. And it could stay separated - it's still a skill that sees much use.

Why is it unnecessary? Just stating that it is doesn't mean much.

Linguistics is a very campaign-dependant skill, and gets somewhat redundant through the use of Comprehend Languages and Tongues. That's more of an issue with spells being too good than the skill though, IMO. I do agree that skills may not be the best representation of it, and in that case I may prefer your version or something similar. It's a very odd skill in many ways, though.

In my experience, these are skills that a LOT of characters considers maxing:
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

Well, then I have nothing I can say to you really, because I disagree with you as completely on every count as you do with me. There is nothing productive to be gained from this discussion.


stringburka wrote:
One thing though, it's very hard to evaluate the house rules when we don't know why they're there. It'd be nice with a little more substantial explanation of the percieved problem, the general solution, and how your house rules are steps towards that solution. I've read your first post twice now and I still don't really know why you change the skill system - other than that you don't like the system and that some skills aren't used enough. If the main issue is that skills aren't used enough, aren't there easier solutions? (such as empowering the skills, consolidating them, or turning some into level checks (profession, I'm looking at you))

It seems to me that is exactly what the OP has done, as well as adding a brilliant new system of traits. I love it.

Silver Crusade

Can'tFindthePath wrote:
stringburka wrote:
One thing though, it's very hard to evaluate the house rules when we don't know why they're there. It'd be nice with a little more substantial explanation of the percieved problem, the general solution, and how your house rules are steps towards that solution. I've read your first post twice now and I still don't really know why you change the skill system - other than that you don't like the system and that some skills aren't used enough. If the main issue is that skills aren't used enough, aren't there easier solutions? (such as empowering the skills, consolidating them, or turning some into level checks (profession, I'm looking at you))
It seems to me that is exactly what the OP has done, as well as adding a brilliant new system of traits. I love it.

Thank you. :D The encouragement is a bit nice.

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