Deflect Arrows VS Alchemist bombs

[Ravingdork]

Can you deflect an alchemist bomb? By my reading of the Deflect Arrows feat, I think you can, as it is not a spell effect, natural attack, or siege weapon.

[Freehold DM]

That's an interesting one, RD.

[Malag]

Throwing bombs/flasks are ranged attacks, so yeah, you can. It seems pretty clear about it.

Only question is where would they land?

[Christopher Woldridge]

I do not see why you could not deflect it so that you were no longer the main target. It says you take no damage from the ranged weapon but I would rule that it still hits your hex and you need to save vs the splash.

[Happler]

dotting this as I too am curious on the outcome/ruling.

I would almost be tempted to say no, due to the line from touch attacks:

Quote:

Touch Attacks: Some attacks completely disregard armor, including shields and natural armor—the aggressor need only touch a foe for such an attack to take full effect.

To deflect it, you have to touch it. But that is only personal opinion.

[Lokie]

Not sure how others would do this but if the situation came up in my game I'd rule it like this...

As this is a flask that needs to break like an alchemical item, I'd rule this touch attack is special in that it does not need to just "touch" the enemy.

If you are using deflect arrows, you'd slap the flask away randomly (treat flask like a grenade-like weapon that has missed).

If you are using snatch arrows, you'd catch the flask without it breaking. However, having gained possession of the flask it'd be nullified as per the rules on others using alchemist stuff.

Again... this is just how I'd rule on it in my games.

[ossian666]

I wouldn't allow Deflect Arrows to work because it would probably break, but Snatch Arrows I think I'd be okay with.

[GeneticDrift]

The feat says it does

To all who are thinking about not letting it work, the monk can deflect bullets too, and sharp shuricans, and all manner of objects. None hurt him for doing so. If you need help with the mental image, think on how a splash weapon is lobed and not thrown like a baseball. Also the monk could use his clothing to swing it away or cushion it's flight, or gently push on it with his foot from below.

Since it missed it would scatter as normal.

[Winterwalker]

Hrm. The only argument I can think of, is that while ranged, they are also splash weapons. Does Deflect still apply?

If this can be deflected where does the splash go? Do you role as if you missed?

Does the deflector take splash damage upon impact as he deflects? I assume there has to be some kind of contact here to deflect it, and splash damage only requires a touch attack to deal full damage.

There's enough ammo for me to almost say no here. Plus some grey area in so far as they are a SU not a weapon (even though they do qualify, and are 'considered' weapons for feats and such.)

Kinda leaning 'no.' right now.

[Stazamos]

I would say that if the alchemist targets the monk, the monk can deflect it. What happens to it? Undefined in the case of Deflect Arrows (more on this in a bit), or if caught via Snatch Arrows, I like the "it becomes inert" interpretation, but perhaps it could be thrown as a rock, if the monk is so inclined, but more likely the monk drops it harmlessly. This would be slightly different for normal splash weapons, but we're talking bombs here. (Edit: I'll go ahead and clarify "slightly different" for normal splash weapons. If caught, not inert, but throwable, since there's no magic alchemist stuff involved. But if dropped, does it explode? Hmm.)

Now, if the alchemist targeted a grid intersection, I would say that neither Deflect Arrows nor Snatch Arrows would allow the monk to stop it.

As for what happens if the bomb is deflected, I'd say it counts as though the bomb missed, and roll for a random square, per usual misses. (Edit: I just realized this is what GeneticDrift meant with "scatter"; that's the term "Throw Splash Weapon" uses, and I didn't realize what it meant. Oops.)

This is just how I'd run it; I can imagine other possible valid interpretations.

[Rathendar]

Hmm, i'm going to say that i'll weigh in with geneticdrift above. Deflect arrows works, scatter as normal. +1

[GeneticDrift]

Winterwalker wrote:

Hrm. The only argument I can think of, is that while ranged, they are also splash weapons. Does Deflect still apply?

If this can be deflected where does the splash go? Do you role as if you missed?

Does the deflector take splash damage upon impact as he deflects? I assume there has to be some kind of contact here to deflect it, and splash damage only requires a touch attack to deal full damage.

There's enough ammo for me to almost say no here. Plus some grey area in so far as they are a SU not a weapon (even though they do qualify, and are 'considered' weapons for feats and such.)

Kinda leaning 'no.' right now.

I dont see where you are coming from here. Touch attack isn't the same as being touched.

Bombs are considered weapons in all ways not just feats.

[Rory]

I had a 4th level BBEG (Fighter 2, Rogue 2) that fought with sword and shield. He had Missile Shield as a feat, which does the same thing as Deflect Arrows.

The party alchemist tossed a bomb at him, which was "deflected". The explosion went off in the BBEG's square. The BBEG then made his reflex save and took no splash damage (although his minions did).

[xanthemann]

Official ruling on the matter, well, as official as one can get.

[Zakur Opzan]

They are however supernatural in origin. If the bomb is deflected and the alchemist has a feat that allows him to reroll the throw to a square of his choice how will that be affected? he can make it fall in a square of his choice so the monk may take some splash damage anyway. also this can only be done once per round, so if the alchemist has more than one bomb per round, they can only deflect one.