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I missed the fact that you can not build a character able to utterly cripple his foes and produce specific effects according to the points pressed on the enemy's body. The martial artist was a good beginning, but is a little too realistic to fill the whole wuxia "strangers are magic" gap. Think Dim Mak, soap kung-fu movies about masters of a deadly secret technique, or Kenshiro from Hokuto no Ken for all these tropes at once !
You are effectively trading your whole mobility, evasion, CMD, high AC and even damage potential (if you wish so) to become a close range tank body breaker with high debuff skills and roleplaying options.
Am I missing anything ?
Anyway, I hope you will like the...
Grandmaster of the Touch of Death
A grandmaster of the Touch of Death studies the secrets of Ki pressure points, allowing him to force creatures to act upon his whim or break their body and mind alike by aiming at their weakest points.
Dislocating Strike (Ex)
At 1st level, a grandmaster of the Touch of Death gains the Dislocating Strike feat as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
A grandmaster of the Touch of Death may use Stunning Fist and Dislocating Strike a number of times per day equal to his Wisdom modifier plus his monk level, plus 1 per every 4 levels in another class, shared between the two feats.
This ability replaces the monk's bonus feat gained at 1st level and modifies the normal amount of times per day a monk may use Stunning Fist and Dislocating Strike.
Dislocating Strike (Combat)
Your mastery of anatomy allows you to cripple your foes by aiming at vital points, twisting jointures, fracturing bones and breaking spines.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Wis 13, Heal 1 rank.
Benefit: You must declare that you are using this feat before you make an unarmed attack roll, or a grapple check dealing unarmed damage (thus, a failed attack roll or grapple check ruins the attempt). In addition to dealing damage normally, you inflict 1 point of Str or Dex damage. At level 4, and every 4 levels later, this ability damage increases by 1 (up to 6 at 20th level) – on a confirmed critical hit, or by performing an especially brutal blow against the creature you are grappling (effectively releasing the grapple as a free action after your grapple check), you deal double ability damage. The ability damage dealt on a single strike can never exceed your current ranks in the Heal skill. A successful Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wis modifier) halves this ability damage (minimum 1). Unlike normal ability damage, this damage can be healed by a Heal check with the same DC. Each successful check heals 1 point of ability damage, +1 for every 5 by which your check exceeds the DC.
You may attempt a dislocating strike a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier, plus 1 for every four levels you attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round. Creatures immune to critical hits cannot suffer ability damage this way. Dislocating Strike is treated in any way as the Stunning Fist feat for the purposes of feats and class features, including bonuses to save DCs and meeting prerequisites of feats (like Mantis Style or Stunning Pin); but if you gain additional uses of Stunning Fist and possess both feats, only one feat benefits from additional uses - this choice is permanent.
Special: A monk who receives Stunning Fist at 1st level may choose to gain Dislocating Strike instead. A monk may attempt a dislocating strike a number of times per day equal to his Wisdom modifier plus one more time at level 2 then every two levels later, plus one more time per day for every four levels he has in classes other than monk.
Bonus Feats
A grandmaster of the Touch of Death must choose his bonus feats from the following list:
Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Scorpion Style, and Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike).
At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list:
Gorgon’s Fist, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip and Stunning Fist Adept.
At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list:
Bonebreaker, Disorienting Blow, Improved Critical, Medusa’s Wrath and Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike).
A grandmaster of the Touch of Death needs not meet the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.
Qinggong powers
A grandmaster of the Touch of Death adds the following abilities to his available list of qinggong powers. He may select them as normal, or choose one instead of increasing his unarmed damage at level 4 and every 4 levels later. The following abilities with a range other than personal must be activated with a successful attack made as a standard action or grapple check dealing unarmed damage against the target of the spell-like ability, and they only apply against the target of the attack ; but they otherwise work as per normal qinggong powers.
Failure to hit with the unarmed strike or combat maneuver means the ki points are lost.
4th-Level Ki Powers
Memory Lapse (1 ki point)
Interrogation (1 ki point)
6th-Level Ki Powers
Confess (1 ki point)
10th-Level Ki Powers
Forced Repentance (2 ki points)
Interrogation, Greater (2 ki points)
14th-Level Ki Powers
Divine Power (3 ki points)
18th-Level Ki Powers
Geas/Quest (3 ki points)
Fortified Jointures (Ex)
At 2nd level, a grandmaster of the Touch of Death is able to protect his own pressure points against powerful blows. He gains the effects of light fortification, as per the armor property. At 9th level, he gains medium fortification instead ; at 17th level, he gains heavy fortification. These properties do not stack with other fortification effects.
This ability replaces evasion, improved evasion, timeless body, tongue of the sun and moon and empty body.
Pain Points (Ex)
At 3rd level, a grandmaster of the Touch of Death’s advanced knowledge of humanoid anatomy grants him a +1 bonus on critical hit confirmation rolls and increases the DC of his Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm by 1.
This ability replaces still mind.
Hammer the Gap (Ex)
At 3rd level, a grandmaster of the Touch of Death is able to strike repeatedly at his opponent's weak points. He gains the Hammer the Gap feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
This ability replaces fast movement and maneuver training.
Pain Acceptance (Ex)
At 4th level, when unarmored, the grandmaster of the Touch of Death gains DR 1/-. Every four levels later, his DR increases by 1, up to DR 5/- at 20th level.
This ability replaces the monk's bonus to AC and CMD gained at level 4 and every 4 levels later.
Kyūshojutsu (Ex)
At 4th level, as a swift action, a grandmaster of the Touch of Death may spend 1 point from his ki pool and two daily uses of his Dislocating Strike. Each successful hit with an attack or combat maneuver made with an unarmed strike during his round deals 1 point of Str or Dex damage to the creature hit ; this ability damage may be doubled on a successful critical hit and subsequently reduced as per the feat (minimum 1). Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to this ability damage. This ability counts as the single Dislocating Strike a character may perform in a single round.
This ability replaces slow fall.
Ki Pool (Ex)
A grandmaster of the Touch of Death's ki pool functions as per a monk or monk archetype's ki pool, except that he may not spend a Ki point to increase his base speed or gain a dodge bonus to his AC.
Improved Pain Points (Ex)
At 12th level, a grandmaster of the Touch of Death's bonus gained from his pain points ability increases by 1.
This ability replaces abundant step.
Touch of Justice (Su)
At 13th level, a grandmaster of the Touch of Death may force a foe to perform a specific task by striking the right meridian. As a standard action, he may expand 4 Ki points to perform a single attack roll at his highest bonus. If this attack hits, the creature suffers damage as normal and is under the effect of a Mark of Justice, as per the spell.
At 15th level, the grandmaster of the Touch of Death may choose to spend one use of his quivering palm as part of the attack roll ; in which case the condition set by the Mark of Justice inflicts the effects of his quivering palm instead of the effects allowed by the spell ; this effect remains permanent and can only be removed as per the spell, or by a successful Fortitude save the first time the creature activates the Mark of Justice, dispelling the mark. This quivering palm does not count in the number of abilities the master of Touch of Death may have in effect at a time.
This ability replaces diamond soul.
Quivering palm (Ex)
A master of the Touch of Death may use this ability one additional time per day per level above 15th, but may not have more than one in effect at a time.
When using this ability, he may set a one-round delay before the enemy must perform his saving throw. At the beginning of his next round, the enemy must succeed at a Will saving throw with the same DC or become frightened until the end of his round, at which point he must save against the quivering palm. This is a fear effect.
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I revised some balance issues with the archetype and put it into a brand new Google Document. Check it out ! :)
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love the added bit to QP. nice. a shaken/frightened/panicked saving throw paradigm would be cool (like pass/fail/fail by 5...)
language proposal:
Atemi is a new descriptor.
Atemi abilites are only effective against living creatures who are vulnerable to both critical hits and precision damage.
Atemi abilities include: Stunning Fist, Dislocating Strike, Scorpion Style, Touch of Justice, and Quivering Palm.
feature proposals:
Pain Points (Ex):
At 3rd level, the grandmaster of the touch of death may choose to roll his Heal skill to confirm critical hits he makes with his unarmed strikes.
Further, the DC for all his atemi abilities increase by +1. Every eight levels afterward, the DC increases by +1 again, to a maximum of +3 at 19th level.
This ability replaces still mind.
Greater Hammer the Gap (Ex):
At 12th level, When the grandmaster of the touch of death uses a full-attack action to make multiple unarmed attacks against the same opponent, total the damage from all hits before applying that opponent’s damage reduction.
This ability replaces abundant step.
question:
can Dislocating Strike be used with Scorpion Style?
comment:
Kyushojutsu has a strange cost. too much bookkeeping. um, maybe just lift the 'one atemi per round' restriction so long as ki = 1+?
or
"At 4th level, a grandmaster of the touch of death learns a secret technique that allows him to make lightning-quick atemi strikes. He may use Stunning Fist and Dislocating Strike in conjunction with a number of unarmed attacks equal to his Wisdom modifier. This counts as a single use of those abilities. Kyushojutsu is activated as a swift action, burns 1 ki, and lasts a single round."
or somesuch.
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love the added bit to QP. nice. a shaken/frightened/panicked saving throw paradigm would be cool (like pass/fail/fail by 5...)^
I'm glad you like it ! :)
About your suggestions:
- QP initially provided the frightened status. While flavorful and even if that seems less efficient than just simply killing the target outright, it actually provides a nice debuff on attack and saving throws against targets with a high Fortitude but a low Will save, allowing another party member to exploit this penalty before the QP activates. Shaken on a failed Will save is already potent enough :)
- Atemi descriptor: I prefer not to create new rules when there is no need for them. It would be a great idea for a whole supplement, but for a single archetype, such specification only complexifies the rules.
- As written, I don't think the Grandmaster needs any buff; I have seen similar characters played, notably the martial artist and a fighter with Dislocating Strike pre-errata, and there are plenty of ways to make an efficient one within even a reasonable mini-maxing. All monks already receive a limited DR penetration, and the grandmaster's ability to deal damage is represented by his WF/WS feats if someone wishes to play one. His iconic abilities do not depend on damage but on a successful hit, and it is possible to play a qinggong grandmaster with crap damage but frightening debuff and roleplay opportunities (since he may select new powers instead of increasing his unarmed damage); I wouldn't shoehorn every character into a DPS feature instead of keeping Still Mind, which would in addition reduce his qinggong versatility.
- Dislocating Strike works like Stunning Fist: once per round, you may add its effects to a single unarmed attack roll by declaring its use before the attack roll. You may use both at the same time (burning through your daily allocation), and the target must save separately for each effect. This includes Scorpion Style.
- Kyushojutsu does not require more bookkeeping than any other monk. I always played my monk with 3 columns: remaining Stunning Fist attempts, Ki and hit points. The effect has been made a free action to allow a character the ability to use kyushojutsu AND add one attack to his flurry. As written in your suggestion, it would cost one use of each ability to spam it at full capacity on each attack of a round, which clearly breaks the balance of these abilities. A simple 8th level monk may expect a 22 Wisdom, so 6 attacks, which is exactly what he may perform on a flurry + ki point + haste... allowing him to perform 6 stunning fist in a single round against any number of ennemies at the cost of 1 Ki point and 1 stunning fist/day.
The way the ability is written, Dislocating Strike has no effective saving throw until they hit 4th level. It will always deal 1 point of stat damage. Maybe change it to a 1d4 damage and delay the increases?
I also think geas/quest doesn't really fit. Hitting pressure point to coerce someone into a confession or cause a memory lapse I can understand, but using it to give someone a bodily compulsion to go fight a dragon or you or else they get sick? I can't maintain my suspension of disbelief for that. It doesn't feel right.
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1 point of penalty (=/= stat damage) to an ability score may not be enough to apply a penalty to the character's ability modifier, so a successful saving throw at low levels could effectively avoid any penalty. In addition, the character deals no damage on a successful hit, unless succeeding at a critical hit or sacrificing his position as the holder of a grapple. 1d4 is equivalent to 2.5 average penalty, too much for a low level power. This effect is similar to a heavily nerfed ray of enfeeblement dealing it's minimum effect, except requiring in addition a melee attack against full AC with a 2/3 BAB class.
Concerning geas/quest, that's a 18th level power, one level after a normal monk gains eternal youth and the ability to speak with pot plants, lions and bees, and two levels after one may use his mustache to strangle someone to death. It's in the list because it keeps the flavor of previous powers, and as a reference to Hokuto no Ken's ability to compels a creature into performing a task or forbid it a specific word or action, otherwise crippling or killing the creature. So don't think too much of it and feel free to rule it out, it will not imbalance the class either way. :)
I actually didnt consider that the 1 point might prevent any penalty. I actually think that's more of an argument to increase the ability's power and make it usable fewer times per day. Spellcasters can do that amount of strength damage it a few times per day with ray and touch spells (Ray of Enfeeblement deals 1d6 Str damage at 1st level and isnt melee range)., so letting him to it just once or twice wouldn't be overpowered. To that end you might not want to lump it in with Stunning Fist for increased uses if you feel it's stronger than Stunning Fist.
Thinking about this from a player perspective, when I use this on an opponent, there's only a 50% chance that it will have any effect on them when they FAIL to make the saving throw, since I have no ideas what their ability scores are. When it becomes 3 points of damage at 8th, there's a 50% chance it will be no more powerful than if the monk were 4th level regardless of saving throws.
This already introduces an element of chance-based effectiveness, but what makes this worse than a die roll is the player has no idea if there is even a point to using this ability. When he rolls a die and gets a 1 or a 6, he knows if his ability has probably had an effect and how strong it was. If it just damages it by 1, he would not only never know if it had any effect, but he might not even be abel to tell the difference if it does since it would only be a -1 to the modifier anyway, which only slightly affects the enemy's die rolls.
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A -1 penalty to Strength always has an effect, beginning with reduced carrying capacity (which may effectively cripple the creature's base speed), and further vulnerability to the same effect.
I can see your point on the issue of dealing absolutely no visible effect though; I guess this attack should deal normal damage in any situation, with the ability penalty as an additional effect (a bit like a reverse stunning fist). If you see the original post, you'll note the ability has received several rewrites (I had even posted a different writing some months before).
Maybe the DC would avoid the HP damage, but not the ability penalty, making it a safer-yet-weaker stunning fist. I'll see to correct this, and add a mention that a healing spell or night of rest recovers part of this ability penalty.
The reduced carrying capacity is a complete non-issue when your intent is to use this ability to kill a lumber ogre that's been stealing sheep from a defenseless village (or whatever the combat is).
I didn't see the google document initially. Having the -2 to Str or Dexterity instead of just the -1 instantly make this more effective, however forgoing damage completely would definitly be a problem as you said, whether it always happens or if they save to avoid it (I think the latter is a bad idea in and of itself, but I digress).
In game design, there's a theory called Dominant Strategy that states if a player given an ultimate method of disposing of obstacles in a game, they will ALWAYS use it. If the enemy has, let's say, 40 hp, and monk and his 3 damage-dealing allies each deal an average of 5 dmg per round, it would take 8 rounds to defeat the enemy. If the monk decides to use this ability 4 times and doesn't deal damage, it would take 2 more rounds to take the enemy down.
There's no situation where this ability would make a combat end faster, unless they were fighting a very fast opponent that relied on dexterity (and not magic or natural armor, as most monsters do), but brining the modifier down by 1 each round wouldn't even affect his allies' roll success by much. Since the monk can already choose to deal non-lethal damage with his unarmed strikes, a monk that wants to take enemies down without killing them just need to make the final blow non-lethal, and doesn't need this ability.
HP damage and the ability damage need to happen at the same time, or it won't ever be worth it.
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The reduced carrying capacity is a complete non-issue when your intent is to use this ability to kill a lumber ogre that's been stealing sheep from a defenseless village (or whatever the combat is).
A reduced carrying capacity could instantly inflict a significant penalty to AC and attack rolls; which is actually useful just right now if you intend on killing said enemy... not even accounting the fact it allows you to lock a spellcaster who would be unable to carry his own gear. But I already said the penalty would be more consequent in the future revision of the feat.
In game design, there's a theory called Dominant Strategy that states if a player given an ultimate method of disposing of obstacles in a game, they will ALWAYS use it. If the enemy has, let's say, 40 hp, and monk and his 3 damage-dealing allies each deal an average of 5 dmg per round, it would take 8 rounds to defeat the enemy. If the monk decides to use this ability 4 times and doesn't deal damage, it would take 2 more rounds to take the enemy down.
If your only objective is to kill the dude and you have two damage-dealing allies, there is nothing stopping you from dealing a Stunning Fist + Dislocating Strike hitting Dexterity in order to stun him and/or reduce his Dexterity modifier so your allies, the real DPS dealers, hit harder. Even creatures based on natural armor or magic can suffer from a penalty to Dexterity. This option can make the combat end faster just by itself.
Just because an option isn't optimal in -every- situation does not mean it is bad design, as long as it always remains useful, the same way power attack can become a burden against especially high AC ennemies. For I have playtested the feat before and after each version, I can say it worked but could have benefited from a slight buff. The original goal was to provide a level 1 fighter with Batman's Bane-like bodybreaking abilities in the form of a balanced feat.I am still toying around the idea, and already have some clues on where to aim either thanks to your input.
(Also, for the sake of newcomers, HERE IS THE LINK to the current version.)
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Maxximilius,
i'm with Big Lemon in that a successful use of a Dislocating Strike ought to deal normal unarmed damage plus offer a save for additional effect. it can be subdual damage anyhow if the strategy is to take 'em alive! (right?...)
but i liked your original proposal of 1 ST and 1 DX damage. given a random opponent, there is an overall 50% chance that one of the ability scores is even, 25% chance that neither of them are even, and a 25% chance that they are both even! those odds, even by the 'dominant strategy theory', sound good to me.
also, i would get rid of the half Wisdom thing. wonky!! let Dislocating Strike operate like Stunning Fist exactly in terms of how often (1/monk level or 1/4 non-monk levels). for our grandmaster, that's two strikes per level! (maybe could add a liquidity clause: "the grandmaster of the touch of death may attempt a Dislocating Strike in place of a Stunning Fist attempt and vice versa, so long as he doesn't exceed either daily limit.")
i would basically have DS work just like SF except it deals ability damage instead of stun. if you want this as an entry fighter feat, i would make the pre-req's just be Unarmed Strike, Wis 13, Heal 1 rank. that is steep enough. The grapple build is part of that without having to be specific. for fighter's sake, just remember to add that he can DS a "minimum once per day" so that taking the feat at 1st level is worthwhile.
question:
is the option to deal mental ability damage present in your build? CON?
The reduced carrying capacity is a complete non-issue when your intent is to use this ability to kill a lumber ogre that's been stealing sheep from a defenseless village (or whatever the combat is).A reduced carrying capacity could instantly inflict a significant penalty to AC and attack rolls; which is actually useful just right now if you intend on killing said enemy... not even accounting the fact it allows you to lock a spellcaster who would be unable to carry his own gear. But I already said the penalty would be more consequent in the future revision of the feat.
In game design, there's a theory called Dominant Strategy that states if a player given an ultimate method of disposing of obstacles in a game, they will ALWAYS use it. If the enemy has, let's say, 40 hp, and monk and his 3 damage-dealing allies each deal an average of 5 dmg per round, it would take 8 rounds to defeat the enemy. If the monk decides to use this ability 4 times and doesn't deal damage, it would take 2 more rounds to take the enemy down.If your only objective is to kill the dude and you have two damage-dealing allies, there is nothing stopping you from dealing a Stunning Fist + Dislocating Strike hitting Dexterity in order to stun him and/or reduce his Dexterity modifier so your allies, the real DPS dealers, hit harder. Even creatures based on natural armor or magic can suffer from a penalty to Dexterity. This option can make the combat end faster just by itself.
Just because an option isn't optimal in -every- situation does not mean it is bad design, as long as it always remains useful, the same way power attack can become a burden against especially high AC ennemies. For I have playtested the feat before and after each version, I can say it worked but could have benefited from a slight buff. The original goal was to provide a level 1 fighter with Batman's Bane-like bodybreaking abilities in the form of a balanced feat.
I am still toying around the idea, and already have some...
I didn't mean to sound like I thought it was bad design, but I do think it's bad design to forgo damage, which gets increasingly large as the monk levels, for an effect that would do very little even if it did work. I would always rather perform a Stunning Fist in this situation, unless the target was in some way immune to it, in which case I would probably stick to damage. If the penalty to Str/Dex were added ONTO my normal damage as an effect a certain number of times per day, I would use as many uses as I had. Even if it doesn't do much, I don't lose anything by attempting it. In the above situation, It doesn't matter if I'm helping my allies hit a target better (especially since a fighter can hit more reliably than a monk) if it means the fight lasted longer and the party spend more time, arrows, rounds of rage, performance, and/or spells to bring it down.
And no, I disagree about the encumbrance penalty. It exists, but in what situations will a monster, or an intelligent person of any kind, be carrying around loads of heavy items in combat that would lock him in place if he got just a little exhausted? You might be stacking up your NPCs with as much gear as they can carry, but if you look at the NPC Codex, the GM's Guide, or the Bestiaries, most of them don't carry loads of heavy gear around with them. The vast majority have one or two weapons, their armor (if any), a few tiny potions and maybe a few scrolls, depending on their class and level. Any non-combat gear they might be carrying in a backpack would just be dropped as soon as combat started. Non-humanoid creatures don't typically carry anything at all.
Give me a common situation where an enemy will be carry a load that's just a few pounds away from encumbering him instead of just leaving it on a shelf nearby or in a backpack he can easily slide off.
Additionally, my Dominant Strategy comment was not saying that that a normal attack was more effective more often, I believe it or a Stunning Fist attempt would be more effective ALWAYS. It just wouldn't be worth it.