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"Why Paizo in particular?" Where did you plan to post?So I’ve been thinking about this for a while but after all these years of nothing, would it be illegal to post the update Gary made regarding the final five books and their art?Message Paizo's Customer Service before doing so.That could take weeks. They're down to like two people and are still catching up on stuff from back in June.
Also, why Paizo in particular? It doesn't have anything to do with them as it's not their product. If anything, I'd think KS would be contacted.
I sent them a message, and got an automatic response regarding how busy they are due to 2.0 PF. As I was writing it, it dawned on me why you suggested that. Don't want to have my posts deleted. The links will be here, but the posts will be on my blog. That said, I'm told that the updates can technically be accessed even if you didn't support the KS, so a blog post might not be needed. We'll see. Have to do a little trial and error first.
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Recently learned that one of the websites that Michael Clarke used lost its domain after Google dropped it so all of his pics that were on there are now gone. Then there's the fact that Google+ dropped their picture hosting abilities too. That's really sad. I really enjoyed his art, and I'm pretty sure no other site online has access to those specific pics. I should have been more wary and could have downloaded them. I've managed to find a couple on Pinterest, but definitely not even close to a majority. His art will be missed. Thankfully his Deviant Art still exists for the time being.
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Just for the record, I for one appreciate everything you have done and keep doing here in the thread, Kevin_video. I don't expect anything official will ever happen, but for as long as my group and I will keep playing our dwarven campaign, I will keep checking this thread to see what's new and how people expanded/added to the AP.
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Just for the record, I for one appreciate everything you have done and keep doing here in the thread, Kevin_video. I don't expect anything official will ever happen, but for as long as my group and I will keep playing our dwarven campaign, I will keep checking this thread to see what's new and how people expanded/added to the AP.
Duly noted. And also appreciated.
I was given permission by the legal team at Paizo to do as I please so long as anything regarding publication isn’t plagiarized, stolen, or uses anything that’s not OGL. I have no plans on taking credit away from Michael Clarke, who has given us brilliant work. And despite anyone’s feeling to the contrary, this is still Gary’s project and he owns the rights. So I will be careful, but hope to have a few theories and posts in the future.
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It's not a huge update, but I spent a lot of time on it, so I'm hoping people appreciate it. It was mostly just an itch I needed to scratch, and to avoid doing other things. Thankfully the research did me good and I'll be able to get back into other projects.
For now though, I give you two blog posts that I said on the KS comments that I would do. I'll edit it later and make it look prettier (ie. I'll bold and italicize things), but right now it's almost 4 AM my time and I've got a lot to do tomorrow, including finalizing things for PFS. Also, as I mentioned on the posts, things are a little more slow going as I'm using a buddy's old laptop and not my desktop. Unfortunately, I've had a string of bad luck that I'm hoping will stop. Thankfully my buddy's a computer tech so he's got a lot of junk laying around that he doesn't use, or rebuilds and fixes up to be functional. So we'll see.
Without further ado, my two posts.
Encounter 1 - Theory Build End Boss Book 3
Encounter 2 - Theory Build End Boss Book 4
Like previous posts I've done for the AP, these are just my best guesses on what the encounters would actually be like, and how they might be situated or formatted. I could be completely off basis. I'm also limited to OGL material like Gary is, so there were a few times where I got incredibly frustrated when I'd find a source and know I couldn't use it to make things cooler or more effective. As well, I based the difficult for both encounters solely off of how difficult the encounters in Way of the Wicked were at the same points in their respective books. Figured Gary would use the same formula as before.
Hope you find it useful and/or worthwhile. Apologies that it's through Tumblr. I know a lot of people (including myself) stopped using it when they changed their ToS. Just glad it still works and not completely shut down. I'd cry if I lost all of those posts.
Got another update just for Halloween. Play as cute and interesting, but monstrous looking mushroom people.
The person playing that would be a Fungi.
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I'm becoming my own meme.
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No one:
Kevin Video: Hey. Here's some builds, races, and encounters for an unfinished AP that'll likely never see the light of day.
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Some day I'll learn. Maybe. Unlikely. I'm already getting teased by a few fellow writers for doing this kind of thing for free when I'm a freelancer, and essentially doing Gary's job for him. Honestly? I can't think of anyone who'd pay me to do these, and I could also be very wrong in how he was going to implement each encounter. Heck, I spent three hours last night helping someone convert 5e monsters over to Pathfinder 1e.
Encounter 3 - Theory Build End Boss Book 5
Super late for an appointment. Doesn't help that I'm fighting a cold. Oh, well. Doing this kept me busy and helped my OCD. I hate unfinished stuff that's piqued my interest. It's very distracting.
Enjoy.
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Made what will likely be my second last, if not last, write up on this, sadly, dead AP. I'm pretty sure everyone's tired of the posts. I know people have been less than thrilled to keep seeing this thread still existing and for it to pop up on occasion instead of it dying out completely, never to be discussed again. I can understand that.
So, here's the final boss of the campaign.
Encounter 4 - Theory Build Final Boss, Book 6
Enjoy.
Hope everyone's been doing well.
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I, for one, am continually heartened by your posts, your enthusiasm, your generosity with regard to this campaign. While the originator of the story has abandoned us for years on end, you have continued to offer your competence. I expect to run this campaign for a few more years, all of them relying on your work. So appreciation to Kevin_video and all of the work you have done on this campaign.
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I, for one, am continually heartened by your posts, your enthusiasm, your generosity with regard to this campaign. While the originator of the story has abandoned us for years on end, you have continued to offer your competence. I expect to run this campaign for a few more years, all of them relying on your work. So appreciation to Kevin_video and all of the work you have done on this campaign.
Your words are very much appreciated. T_T Tears of joys bead in my eyes and down my cheeks.
Part of me wishes I could actually figure out his story. Because it’s a sandbox, there’s a lot of loose threads that don’t necessarily have to tie in or even be tied together. Makes things very difficult.It’s funny. It’s because of this project that I designed and converted underground monsters to tempt or engage with these parties.
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I worked on Way of the Wicked -- you'll see my name as an editor credit on three of the books. (Or four? At this point I don't even remember.)
Kevin, if you're doing this for fun, or to scratch an itch, knock yourself out. People are still playing Against The Giants, you know? More seriously, people are still on these forums discussing and creating extra content for Shackled City and Savage Tide. So there's nothing wrong with doing that.
And I, for one, have no problem seeing these threads continue. I was running Book 4 of WotW as recently as a few months ago, because it's still the best evil AP for 3.x ever done -- and that's a record that now seems unlikely to be broken.
Doug M.
Yeah, you're under editing. It's one of those things I wish I could say I had experienced. Back during his prime and before all of this nonsense.
It was mostly to scratch an itch. When I saw certain pics it was bugging me how things might have gone down, or what builds were part of it. The drow with demons behind her, especially. Also the idea of a corrupted dwarf king. What kind of levels would he have? Corrupted how? Undead? Interesting. What kind besides Gary's usual go-to of lich? What can be done when you're only limited to OGL? So many questions, and when you're limited, it makes for an interesting amount of research, contemplation, and trial & error. I can only imagine how much faster things would have been had I owned Hero Lab.
I don't think people are so much upset that we're still talking about this AP and adding on, but rather what this AP represents. Shackled City and Savage Tide are completed. They're old, but they're heralded as great APs from Paizo from their 3.5 days. Even Way of the Wicked is getting bad mouthed because of this AP. It's mostly what this AP represents, and the anger that's still behind it.
It's difficult to ignore people who say that we should be moving on, letting go, stop dragging up the past, accept that we got burned, give up on the AP already, let the thread die, etc, etc, etc, as recently as the previous page. I've had PMs and messages sent that I should stop too. Especially from those who are tired of seeing this thread reappear, and seeing I'm the one who's mostly responsible for posting. They're not wrong. I think people are just tired of the bad taste that's been left in their mouths. Paizo hasn't closed this thread yet, but I'm aware of there being a petition to Customer Service to do so.
Even if another evil campaign AP does appear and beat out WotW, it's still the first one to pull it off and hold the record for so long.
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We're now in unknown territory. There's a bunch of pictures that don't have a known book place or a summary on the Kickstarter page. It's just a picture and me guessing what it'd be used for or what kind of background story might have existed for it. For this one, I'm assuming it's Book 4, but I'm not entirely sure. Just an educated guess.
Unknown Encounter Part 1 - The Lady Golem
I'm now off to a therapy appointment. They're working on my back with lasers. Don't get old, children. It's not as great as our elders made it seem.
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It's difficult to ignore people who say that we should be moving on, letting go, stop dragging up the past, accept that we got burned, give up on the AP already, let the thread die, etc, etc, etc, as recently as the previous page. I've had PMs and messages sent that I should stop too. Especially from those who are tired of seeing this thread reappear, and seeing I'm the one who's mostly responsible for posting. They're not wrong. I think people are just tired of the bad taste that's been left in their mouths. Paizo hasn't closed this thread yet, but I'm aware of there being a petition to Customer Service to do so.
I still read the updates, so hopefully this thread is able to continue as is since it is still on topic for this forum.
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If anyone is looking for it, you’ll notice that all FMG products on every site are dropping in rating. On the KS page it’s been requested that we drop reviews to 1 star and explain the situation.
It’s mostly in hopes that it’ll keep people from giving Gary money, but mostly in hopes that it’ll force him into action.
Not endorsing or condoning, but backers should be made aware that this is happening, and everyone is free to make their own choice in regards to aiding this or not.
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Also, while it likely won't do anything, I reached out to Gary again and asked him to clear the air for the new decade by just releasing what he had. Just bundle it up as-is, zip file it (make sure it's not corrupted first), and then post it to a megadrive site or iCloud for everyone to download. It's unlikely that it'll happen, but I wanted to at least try.
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Just found out that Tumblr ate my very first Throne of Night post. Thankfully I was able to take screenshots of most of the blog so I can retype most of it. Might have lost about a paragraph, maybe. Definitely lost the art piece for it though. Maybe that's a sign. It's kind of scary to think I've done all those posts for "Way of the Wicked" and "Throne of Night", and at any point I could lose all of it in a snap. Crazy.
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Just found out that Tumblr ate my very first Throne of Night post. Thankfully I was able to take screenshots of most of the blog so I can retype most of it. Might have lost about a paragraph, maybe. Definitely lost the art piece for it though. Maybe that's a sign. It's kind of scary to think I've done all those posts for "Way of the Wicked" and "Throne of Night", and at any point I could lose all of it in a snap. Crazy.
That was annoying, but I typed it all out again. Hopefully that never happens again. I'd rather not ever repeat that experience.
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Just checked out your blog, it's pretty great. Keep up the good work, Sir Video.
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So, I was expecting to hear back from KS, but I was finally informed that all of our messages have paid off. Gary's account has been suspended. He can't make any more projects until he fulfills the rewards of his previous ones. Unfortunately, they can't completely suspend his account, which means he can spend money however he pleases. Can't say I'm too shocked at that. But, it's something. The person I talked with said he was surprised things had gone on this long, and that the project will be monitored. Small consolation, I suppose.
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Good Sir Video. I've been following this thread for quite some time. I'd just like to offer my thanks and gratitude for your efforts. I didn't stumble upon TON until after the unpleasantness, but I quickly realized that it held almost everything that I'd wanted in an underdark based adventure and was a shame that it had ended in the manner that it had. Thank you for your time and dedication. Your continued support has made my efforts to flesh out the remaining campaign, much more fulfilling. You might feel unappreciated from time to time, but know that there are those of us who recognize everything that you have done and wish you all the best.
Thank you. I do appreciate you and others reaching out, and giving their thanks. It's nice to see/hear every now and again. Makes me know it's worth it.
This campaign could have been so good, and scratch an itch that so many of us had for that underground scenario. Unfortunately, it ended up not being the fulfilling dream we had hoped. Sadly that's how it goes when you're jostled awake. I'm glad you found my blog and can make use of what updates I did with the different monsters and whatnot that I've converted. I'm also glad I found that old AD&D 2nd module that was written and posted online, which I managed to do for as well, should anyone decide to finish the campaign early, and with dignity.
I'm hoping to do more, but as I said in one of my posts, either here or on the blog, I just can't replicate Gary's mind so I don't know what kind of story he was going for. Doesn't help that it's a sandbox scenario so it can be random at times. Some of the options don't even have to sync up with one another. They can just exist and separate all unto themselves.
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I’ll admit that I’m fairly “online anti-social” too. I really only post here, and even it’s brief. I freely admit my OCD and ADHD. It’s why I’m not great at my own homebrew games. Everything has to be perfect. That’s not how gaming works.
As for the picture you showed, I haven’t a clue. Honestly, I just spent the last hour or so scanning through my bestiaries trying to find it before I can to the site. Thankfully you ask before I did so hopefully it’ll get answered.
I can’t seem to recall Gary mentioning a Scylla. Now I’m curious.
kevin_video, I do appreciate the fact that you post in this thread. And if you did sell a finished Throne of Night, I would totally buy it.
As for that image... I don't know maybe, it's some unique creature. At that point in the adventure, some sort of Eldritch monster that the world has never seen before would not be out of place.
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kevin_video, I do appreciate the fact that you post in this thread. And if you did sell a finished Throne of Night, I would totally buy it.
As for that image... I don't know maybe, it's some unique creature. At that point in the adventure, some sort of Eldritch monster that the world has never seen before would not be out of place.
I thank you for the compliment. I think for now I’ll keep what I’m doing. We all got burned for a decent amount. I’m considering doing a Patreon. It was suggested a couple of years ago that I start one up after I did my numerous blogs for Way of the Wicked. I started making one, and have a page set aside. I just never initiated it. It’s been sitting unfinished, waiting to be activated for a couple of years now, at least.
That’s entirely possible, but I doubt Gary would have built a monster from scratch. That seems like too much work for him, and not enough return. Part of me wonders if it’s a template or something. Like an aberration or eldritch horror one.
I ended up posting this on Facebook, and a few people swear up and down it’s a psurlon. Ended up having a chat with an old friend of Gary’s from way back. He and I chatted about how Gary used to be before moving to Oregon, and how he too noticed the shift after that trip to Africa. That Gary doesn’t seem to talk to anyone anymore. At least those who were part of his past. And the guy is legitimately concerned about the transition. I am too. It’s much too jarring. And definitely worrying that he seems to have cut himself off.
The guy I talked seemed really nice. Was glad we could have that chat.
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Just for fun, and to give people running this AP something a little different to throw at their players, I did up a conversion for a the draegloth, from 3.5's Forgotten Realms Underdark books.
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On a more serious topic, just for a quick
I wanted to keep doing builds on a semi-regular basis, but I'm going to be forced into a bit of a break. My mother and I were both given fairly dire news from our doctors. She's still waiting on her results though, so for her there's still a chance it's just a scare.
I, on the other hand, was given my news quite a while ago, and worked hard to get through the treatments and change the dark outcome. Not easy to do, but I was successful and made it past my birthday seven months ago, when the specialist said I probably wouldn't. Thought I had completely beaten the odds, but now enough time has gone by that I have to go in for a whole new set of tests. I've already beaten the odds once so I'm hopeful I can do it a second time. I ask that you please keep us in your thoughts.
I'll still likely be on here as often as I typically am. My phone is practically attached to my hand and I always have my charger nearby. And when able, or when the mood hits, I'll do more theory builds. I've got four or five rolling around in my head that want to be written out.
My health is coming first. I can promise you that. As OCD/ADHD as I am, I am making sure I'm looking after myself and not pushing myself too hard, or making things more difficult for myself and jeopardizing my health. But, things like the theory builds and monster conversions tend to help get my mind off of reality, and with things possibly going back to how they were previously, I'll want to check out of reality and lose myself in my writing and doing things like this.
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Just for fun I made a golem guardian build for the half-god prince I did up a few years ago. It's powered by the lich's phylactery.
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Take care of yourself first, Kevin - this has been sitting since 2012 and it can wait while you can't. Better yet, I think you could convince people that you could do your own adventure path. You obviously have the chips for it. But get well first.
Thank you for the kind words. We’re getting some of the news today.
Interestingly enough, I did Book 6 of a smaller adventure path, and, if I remember right, it was the highest rated of them all.
I like to do my own, and actually technically did for my home group. It’s just a matter of what’s legal and all that other fun stuff. As well, the edition of choice. More people are going to 5e, but I honestly don’t know how long that’ll be continuing for. PF 1e is at a weird point right now so publishers are reluctant to do adventures of any kind (plus they don’t usually sell very well, I’m told). I’d definitely like to. I had a poll a while ago on that very subject. The main problem was the subject matter. No one could agree on any one storyline. As well, it was brought up that until at least four of the books were written, chances were low that they’d be bought because everyone feared getting burned again. That’s too much of an investment of time and resources for most 3PP to sacrifice when there’s no guarantee they’ll make it back.
It’s a very fickle industry.
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Unknown Encounter 3 - The Veiled Master
Was going to post this yesterday, but had a lot on the go.
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Hey everyone. If you're still checking out this thread, be sure to go to Kickstarter and vote with a frowny face about how you're feeling about this project on the ToN page. I made sure to add the link. Looks like Kickstarter has made some upgrades.
You'll want to use a desktop or laptop though (or use a web browser on your phone), as it doesn't show up on the app.
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Apologies to anyone waiting on any updates from me.
Got a few things that I still want to do for builds. Been on Pinterest and saw new pics from Michael, including a rider on a one-headed sea horse. Not like anything we’ve seen previously. Definitely caught my attention.
Got notified this morning Gary’s backed a number of projects again, including the brand new bestiary Kobold Press launched today. I see he’s officially gone to 5e.
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Good to see you still alive and kicking kevin_video! Sorry to hear about your mum getting sick but I'm sending her the best wishes from my family and myself!
Definitely keen to see what you are coming up with in continuation of this adventure. I'm still running it in 5E but have had to got to monthly sessions due to running another DM collabrative campaign with a few other people.
I think there is definite desire out there for an underground kingdom building adventure, why not do your own take on it? I'd support the crap out of a kickstarter if you started one. Also happy to help contribute ideas for whatever you came up with.
Also I'm at a point where I'm about to have the party enter Dammerhall itself now. I'm currently in the midst of building a proper model so will post a few pics when it's done. I'm still trying to decide what the black fire is I'm thinking probably magical radiation but that could change after I review my notes.
Anyway glad to see you are still around and fighting the hood fight!
Apologies for the late response. Things have been pretty tense here.
I appreciate your words and best wishes, and will definitely take it. It's been about as bad as it could have been, honestly. Mom had her surgery, but unfortunately had consecutive allergic reactions to the meds they gave her, and she's had to stay here under observation ever since. Well, now she is. They had already discharged her twice before finally realizing how stupid an idea that was. Here's hoping that doesn't have a lasting effect on her health.
I'm still on the mend, and being taken in for x-rays today to try figure out why my first rib keeps popping out.
It sucks that I can't do a whole lot with only my weak arm as I've got two drafts saved on Tumblr ready for me to finish. I want to get to those pretty badly.
I've got three Pathfinder 1e adventures written, and have for quite some time, but the problem was one company went belly-up before we could finalize things, and another changed systems completely and is going away from adventures entirely (because "they don't sell"). The third adventure I've been shopping around after it was originally written for a convention.
I'd like to do my own AP, and even have most of it in point form, but it's all 1e, which isn't profitable for a lot of companies any more. I've had a few friends help with conversions to 5e, but it's very slow going. I unfortunately don't know the system very well so it's difficult to adjust stats for. Pathfinder 1e? I can do that in my sleep at this point when it comes to designing encounters and building monsters from scratch. I'm waiting to see the new revised version of Kingmaker and compare it the 5e version to my 1e books so get a better sense for how I should go about things. We'll see. If I did a Kickstarter, I'd make sure I had company backing and about half of it fully written/converted before I announced anything. We all got burned on this one, and I know all well how hesitant people will be in the future.
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I'm still fairly convinced that the black fire is the blackfire adept PrC, but it's not OGL so technically Gary wouldn't be allowed to use it. That might be more open nowadays since 1e is a thing of the past. I was also thinking it might have been a homebrew spell he created just for the adventure, or even a version of the hellfire spell from Way of the Wicked. Radiation wouldn't be a bad idea though.
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It's been a very long time since I've posted on this thread, but I knew Gary back when he lived in Grand Prairie, and I played in his games (he used BRP variants, back then - the first one I played in was Call of Cthulhu, At the Mountains of Madness). I remember bouncing ideas back and forth about Dammerhall - racially centric scenarios was an idea I had thrown at him. I actually did write an intro to an elf adventure path.
I can't help but wonder what happened. I tried to contact him when things went south, but he never responded to me, either.
That’s unfortunately a standard concern. People he knew, people he worked with, etc, and everyone being surprised that this is how things turned out in the end. It’s really sad that things came to a head like this. Some of us still want to believe that we’ll see something from him, even if it’s an incomplete product and just a bunch of scribbles and short hand notes on looseleaf paper.
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Hope everyone is doing well. I'm still healing and not capable of driving yet. I was doing fine until this past Friday night I took a nasty spill on some ice and essentially reset my progress and ended up doing more damage. Fun times.
I was over at Kickstarter today and saw a comment that I really wanted to share from James Journey. The comment said:
"I have actually come up with quite a few good ideas for this campaign, for one I was going to have in book three that the dwarven citadel was run by a half insane blue dragon tinkerer that a hundred years previous had (with some help) taken out most of the dwarves and now allows the now degenerate dwarves (the ones that betrayed their own kind)(many of which, have draconic bloodline and there is even a half dragon or two). I did say the Old blue dragon was a tinkerer, he also has a small army of clockworks to also bolster his troops. Of course, ancient treasure is ripe in the citadel but encounters are at least tough and some are even dangerous. Allies in the region are few but there is a possibility for two and maybe three for dark elves and maybe only one or two for dwarves! I'm just giving an overview."
That sounds really cool. For those wondering, Pathfinder Player Companion: Heroes from the Fringe, has an alternate trait dwarf that gives up greed, hatred, stonecunning, and weapon familiarity for a dragon's breath weapon, but can only choose from cold, electricity, or fire. Also, like half dragons, your breath weapon is either a cone or line, based around the dragon you're emulating.
And for anyone curious...
That's about it for me. Don't forget to cast your vote on the Kickstarter page to show your dissatisfaction. You're looking for this image.
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I'm pretty surprised that I only just found this after two years. For anyone looking for help running this campaign, /tg/ was fairly helpful to those looking for maps and ideas. Go figure, someone uploaded the official and final map for ToN. This map was made available to the backers, but unfortunately not everyone had managed to download it before it was deleted and the link became broken. It's nice to know that after four years, everyone can gain access to it again.
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In addition to my find this morning, I finally finished the build I start months ago before I got hurt. I'll post it later.
EDIT: Wanted to say that I hope everyone is doing well during this pandemic.
Meant to do this earlier, but I realized I'd made a massive error and used the wrong picture to do up an incorrect build. I had made up a bard with guards, but Gary had already stated her out to be a magus. Whoops. Maybe I can use that build for something else some day.
In the meantime, here's another build altogether.
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Unknown Encounter 5 - Aberrant Sunkiller
This is likely the last build for quite a while. At least until I can figure out what the other creatures are. The ones that need class levels, I mean. Other than that, they're just straight out of the bestiaries and/or have the Advanced template. Can't imagine them being more complicated than that.
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For anyone that missed it, and this includes me, six months ago this was discovered:
"According to the Oregon Secretary of State's office, FMG had an "ADMINISTRATIVE DISSOLUTION" on Oct 3, 2014. I think that means Gary stopped filing the annual paperwork to keep the LLC going."
To put that in perspective, August 2014 was the announcement of Book 3 being released "soon" (which never happened) and October 2015 was the very last update we ever got.