Help with building an enounter (enemy knights)

[naztek]

I'm building an encounter for a home campaign where the party is going to be fighting against some enemy knights along a city street.
The APL is 3 and I want to make it a 'Hard' encounter (so CR5) and to that end I've run up the following enemy NPC's:

Knights:

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Knight Errant CR 1 (four knight errants make a CR5 XP1600 encounter)
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XP 400
Male Human Cavalier (Order of the Lion) 2
LE Medium humaniod
Init +1; Senses Perception +0
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DEFENSE
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AC 20, touch 11, flat-footed 19 (+9 armor, +1 Dex,)
hp 20 (2d10+4)
Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +0
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OFFENSE
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Speed 20 ft (50 while mounted)
Melee mwk lance +5 (1d8+2/x3) or mwk longsword +5 (1d8+2 19-20/x2)
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TACTICS
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Kinghts will initiate combat with a charge to maximise the damage of their lances. If combat allows they will discard their lances, draw swords and engage in ride-by attacks.
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STATISTICS
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Str 14, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +2; CMB +4; CMD 15
Feats: mounted combat, ride-by attack, lookout
Skills: Knowledge (nobility) +4, Handle Animal +6, Ride +6
Languages: Common
Abilities: Challenge 1/day, mount, order, tactician
Other Gear: mwk lance, mwk longsword, Full-plate armor, 15gp
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Mount - Horse (wartrained)
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N Large Animal
HP 14 (2d10+4)
AC 18, touch 10, flat-footed 17 (+4 armor, +4 natural armor, +1 Dex, -1 size)
Move speed 50 ft
Attack bite (1d4), 2 hooves* (1d6); *This is a secondary natural attack.
Str 16, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Special Qualities: low-light vision, scent.
Feats: light armor proficiency
Gear: chain shirt (barding)

So far I've been using monsters straight out of the bestiary (1&2) or NPC's from the gallery in Game Mastery Guide and I've not had to worry too much about botching the CR balance. With this encounter though, I know I've gotten the CR/XP balance wrong because of the mounts but how do I rectify it?

[Toccata]

Remove the horses from combat once the riders are dismounted, perhaps?

[Bart Vervaet]

The mounts are an integral part of the cavalier class.

If an enemy wizard casts summon monster you don't get XP for the summoned critter nor does it increase the CR of the encounter.
Same goes for a druid animal companion, and same goes for a cavalier's mount.

That being said, how about looking at an archetype that does not have a mount, and giving them each a different teamwork feat with their tactician ability. That way they would all benefit from 4 teamwork feats for 4 rounds. This would scare the living daylights out of even a APL5 party

[GeneticDrift]

War trained horses have 3 primary attacks and scent. a cavalier's mount is really good at killing things.

[BltzKrg242]

Yeah a great deal of attack/damage of a cavalier or mount Bonded Paladin comes from the mount.
The mount is built into the class level so until the mount is dead, it's an integrated part of the knight you are fighting. No CR modifier needed.

Check your mounts... they don't use the baseline for Horses in the bestiary. They use the rules for Animal companions under druid.

The chain shirt barding is X4 as expensive for the mount as for regular tho and may put the bad guys above GPL.
Also note that as these are war-trained mounts, the hooves are no longer secondary.
Make sure that the bad guys are rolling the DCs to control/direct the mounts. Make sure that if dismounted, that the bad guys use skill checks to continue directing the mounts.

[Serum]

BltzKrg242 wrote:

Check your mounts... they don't use the baseline for Horses in the bestiary. They use the rules for Animal companions under druid.

This.

A cavalier's mount is calculated into his CR, just like a druid's animal companion. You need to use the Horse in the Animal Companion section, though, not the Bestiary horse.

[Shalafi2412]

How big are the streets?

[BltzKrg242]

Make sure to give the players some balconies and rooftops to be able to escape the charges. Also shop fronts and etc to run into...
A few carts and wagons in the street and if it's during the day, make sure there are people about.
Hard to charge if you have 150 pedestrians in the way... The could do over runs but then they don't get to attack at the end...

[naztek]

I'm going to give the party plenty of cover and I know that they still have a tanglefoot bag as well as other consumables. I'm hoping that they use the environment strategically to break charge lines and reduce the effectiveness of the mounted knights.

I've also modified the mounts stats:

Mount:

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Mount - Horse (wartrained)
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N Large Animal
HP 19 (3d8+4)
AC 17, touch 10, flat-footed 16 (+3 armor, +4 natural armor, +1 Dex, -1 size)
Move speed 50 ft
Attack bite (1d4), 2 hooves (1d6);
BAB +2; Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +1
Str 16, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Special Qualities: low-light vision, scent.
Feats: light armor proficiency
Gear: studded leather (barding)

Am I still missing anything for the mount or is it overpowered?