Giving The Community a Chance to Choose What They Want To See: Things You've Always Wanted in an Adventure
Warning: This may be a long post
Prelude: Feel Free to Skip
As of today, I have officially begun the steps to write a Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Compatible Adventure.
It has been a long term goal of mine and of some of my fellow friends to give back to the community who gave us so much. Growing up with Dungeons and Dragons and now having made the move to Pathfinder as soon as Rise of the Runelords: Burnt Offerings (in no small part thanks to their amazing work in both the DUNGEON and DRAGON magazines) I feel that we should give a little something back.
In other words, me, my gaming group and a handful of others I know who have joined me in adventuring over the years have decided to sit ourselves down and contribute to building an adventure just for you, the community.
What Can You Do?
We made the decision very early to allow community input. What's an adventure for you guys without your input?
However, this in no way means you are in ANY obligation to propose ideas of course, we've got the adventure slowly getting written as we speak.
What we'd like from you is your ideas, your propositions, anything you've wanted to see in an adventure.
As well, feel free to recommend good Open Content, from both Paizo or 3rd Party Publishers that you think has some merit and warrants some recognition in an adventure.
Some of you may be wondering, is there a range of setting? A level range? Anything?
Well yes and no. We are trying a rather unique adventure here, one that hopefully you'll enjoy and that will cover a broad range of your preferences. Without spoiling the entirety, you can expect a lot of high fantasy adventure set in a wide range of locales. This isn't an adventure where you stay in one place, your Player Characters will have EARNED their frequent traveler badges by the end.
What We DON'T Want
While your own ideas and propositions are fine, we really hope no one tries to slip in easter eggs to franchises or already made materials which are not covered by the OGL.
We are trying to make something fun and exciting here, not plagiarize the works of others.
Just How Long IS This Adventure
Long.
For those of you who prefer quick adventures, never fear. Despite being what we hope is an exhaustive adventure, the structure itself allows the quest to be separated into smaller parts, much like segments of an adventure path.
As well, some of our group (myself included when I have the time) have a deep love of Stat Blocks. And that means we like making new NPCs. As well, we got some people who seem pretty keen on making everything from new archetypes and spells to prestige classes and equipment, without forgetting feats, traits, etc. Really, we do. So if you don't even plan on playing through it, at least the wealth of new options we plan on including should be enough for you to enjoy.
A Few Last Questions
We've considered having the following in the adventure. Simply answering a Want/Do Not Want to these would be helpful.
- War (Mass Battles)
- Post - 20th Level Content (Not necessarily 21st level)
- Some Science-Fiction Elements
- Diplomacy and Intrigue (More Roleplay than Rollplay)
- Modified Profession/Craft Skills (Opening up new options)
- A World With More Races (More than just the core races appearing prominently)
- Time Travel (Only to a specific event in time)
- Less Good vs Evil and more Lesser of Two Evils.
- Factions (Earn reputation and rewards)
- Optional Objectives and Locations (Small side-quests and locales for players to explore.)
EDIT: Bonus Questions
These are more for formatting arrangements and miscellaneous.
Do you prefer Monsters and NPCs to have their stablocks at the end of the adventure, at the moment in the adventure when you need them or in a separate document?
Does artwork contribute highly to whether or not you will USE a product?
Do maps contribute highly to whether or not you will USE a product?
Would you prefer having the Player's Guide released BEFORE the adventure is finished being written?
Are there any subjects you feel should not be breached or touched upon in an adventure?
What do you NOT want to see?
Thanks
I thank anyone who had the courage to read this wall of text, and a special thank you to those who decide to contribute their ideas and opinions. The very first thing we are making is the Player's Guide and we hope we can include some of your ideas before we finish it up.
Thank you very much,
Matt Limoges, Worldheart Design
More Questions We Thought Of
- Firearms? Prevalent or not?
- Any Classes/Archetypes you feel haven't been getting enough love?
- Planar Travel?
- NPC importance or PC importance
We'll think of more as we go.
More #2
I forgot to ask what you though of making our own set of rules for a Kingmaker type system where the players would eventually need to claim regions, establish armies, etc.
OK! Here is my idea for the most ridiculous thing I could think of...ahem...
The AP starts out with the players having already failed to save the world, and prevent the old gods from returning from beyond the void. Their presence/tendrils/madness is all ready bearing down on Golarion and the first part of the AP is just the players doing everything they can to try and keep some form of sanity as the planet itself begins to fall apart.
Then, introduce a wizard, whose acquaintance the pcs have already made, devises a plan to send the PCs back into the past to meet up with his former self in order to prevent the current calamity that is engulfing the world from coming to pass as well as giving the PCs the chance to make up for their past mistakes.
However, the thing is once they get back and meet with the wizards past self they realize that the macguffins they need to get to prevent the return of the old ones are scattered across not only the planes but the various planets of the material plane itself, all complicated off course by the machinations of various cults dedicated to the old gods and the politics of the individuals planes/planets.
All this culminates with a final fight against the leader of the [insert name for evil cultist alliance here] and his chief cronies battle out on the planet Apostae as the portals are on the verge of being activated and unleashing the horrors of the old Gods on the planet.
This is actually a fantastic idea and I've already got someone seeing what material we have for such a fabulous adventure.
Unfortunately, I don't believe we are allowed to actually have our adventures set in Golarion as I believe that falls under Product Identity. Correct me if I am wrong.
I'd be interested to see where you see 1st level characters fitting into this? 10th? 20th and up?
What we may end up doing is noting down everyone's opinions and seeing what we can feasibly incorporate into the one adventure. Of course, some ideas cannot mesh together but we'll try as much as we can.
I honestly have no idea as to how Golarion things set up within such an adventure. You would probably have to message some of Paizo's Staff to figure out the specifics of their licensing for Golarion IP.
As far as leveling goes I honestly think that could be the trickiest part. My first instinct is to have the players start out as mythic level 20 types early in the AP so as to give a sense of just how strong and serious of a threat the players face, as they where level 20 mythics and still couldn't pull off saving the world and can barely hold things together now that the old ones/whatever-you-want-to-call-them have arrived. Then get them back down to lower levels by having the Wizard need to siphon off almost all of their life force to power the ritual that sends them back in time (most likely their meeting with the Wizard in the past would have the recovering from the near death experience and place them at level one). Also, I would have these scenes occur for most of the early part of the AP, if not for the whole first issue, so that they can get a real feel for the power of their characters and their enemies, otherwise it could go by too fast and the players may feel they had the rug pulled out from under them.
You could even tie into the quest that the macguffins they have to get are actually special items that will allow them to gather their lost powers back, thus granting them mythic levels,and the experience gained from the planar hoping/world spanning adventure gives them the necessary XP to get back to level 20. Also, the cultists that are trying to revive/resurrect/call forth the old ones could be gathering artifacts of their own to complete the rituals needed to return the old ones while sending lesser servants to delay the PCs in the acquisition in their own items. Honestly, I see this sort of cat-and-mouse arms race taking up nearly all of the 1-19 level play as the PCs track down information on the artifacts and information on the whereabouts of the various cult leaders 9You could have 10th level be the moment where the main villain of the early part of the campaign gets moped up on one of the elemental planes, most likely air, and the players have the information to begin going after the true leaders of the cult).
As they work their way through the mcguffins and the cult hierarchy the eventually track down the BBEG of the cult itself on some distant world where they battle it out to try and stop him from completing the rituals required in order to call forth said old ones/old gods and commence the destruction of the world (most of the final part of the AP would run mostly at level 19 with the final battle taking place at level 20).
P.S.-Also, another neat mechanic to put into the final battle would be a running side challenge where the more skill/utility focused characters can to try and undue the rituals that the BBEG had set up while the more combat focus types work on smashing the BBEG's face into the dirt. Could even add a time mechanic where the PCs have to beat him in so many rounds with the degrees of successes or failures on the side challenge add to/shorten the length of the encounter itself (I know the time mechanic is often over done, but since the players have actually FOUGHT the old ones or at least had to try and contain them before without success it my not fall as flat as I find it to normally do).
P.P.S.-It may also be simpler to change the artifacts to simply being powerful intelligent items instead of having them grant mythic levels as the mythic rules may be a long time coming, but it is something interesting to think about if this isn't something that will be immediately produced.
P.P.P.S.-You could also include the various political struggles trying to unify the various nations of Golarion as well as the governments of the various planets as well, not to mention armies from the various planes. That way once they go an hit the big bad evil guy they can have a virtual armada at their backs to go and take on the BBEG and his cultist followers (you could even beef up his forces with other evil types such as The Four Horsemen and other Daemons and Demons as they would see this as their opportunity to finally destroy all of existence).
P.P.P.P.S.-I am starting to think this may be too much for a single AP module...but, from what I have heard it is always better to have too much a pair down than have too little and be grasping at straws to try and keep up. Also, this is going to be all I can give you for right now. It is 2:30 am where I am at and I should probably be getting on to bed...
This is certainly a large response and I'm very grateful for it.
But as you say, it is now 3:30 AM here and I believe my bed is calling me to slumber.
I will read your reply come morning.
Thanks in advance to anyone who posts while I sleep.
As for the subject of Golarion, going over the rules within the books, I'm now pretty convinced I can't use it as a Setting. So it's a generic or homebrew setting for us.
Which means, if you have any good ideas for regions you'd like to see, you know where to post.
Well, then my personal suggestion if you are going home-brew would be to run something of smaller scale than I suggested simply for the fact that a lot of it depends on the players having an understanding of the who and the what is going on, or they have thoroughly supported wiki's and guides to find that out. If you where going to run that with a home-brew setting/AP then you would need a rather detailed gazetteer, something like the Inner Sea Primer covering all the who, what, and where the players are going to run into throughout the AP. Otherwise, all the names and places being thrown around are likely to simply pass right over the players heads.
Furthermore, you would probably need a more detailed overview for the AP for the DM as well, so that they don't get lost throwing all of this stuff around and are able to get a better understanding of the overall picture of the AP.
P.S.-I would probably try and keep such products pdf only and as low price as possible as they add an additional cost that DMs may find hard to chip in for just to run such an AP.
P.P.S.-I would also suggest looking at what the guys at Fire Mountain Games are producing in Way of the Wicked if your looking for what high quality 3rd party APs are going for these days. If anything it would give you a good understanding as to the standards of the competition.
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My replies added.
- War (Mass Battles) - Might be interesting.
- Post - 20th Level Content (Not necessarily 21st level) - I would wait till mythic rules are out.
- Some Science-Fiction Elements - wouldn't interest me.
- Diplomacy and Intrigue (More Roleplay than Rollplay) - would find that very interesting.
- Modified Profession/Craft Skills (Opening up new options) - If done well would be very cool.
- A World With More Races (More than just the core races appearing prominently) - I wouldn't object to the idea and I would check it out but it would need to be well done to interest me.
- Time Travel (Only to a specific event in time) - not really interested in it.
- Less Good vs Evil and more Lesser of Two Evils. - is great when done well and horrible when done poorly.
- Factions (Earn reputation and rewards) - indifferent.
- Optional Objectives and Locations (Small side-quests and locales for players to explore.) - side stuff beyond the main plot is always a nice bonus.
Do you prefer Monsters and NPCs to have their stablocks at the end of the adventure, at the moment in the adventure when you need them or in a separate document?
Just listing the basics and where they are from so I can look them up in the PFsrd is good enough for me.
Does artwork contribute highly to whether or not you will USE a product?
Yes and no, good artwork is a nice bonus. But I would rather have little to no artwork than bad artwork.
Do maps contribute highly to whether or not you will USE a product?
Good maps are pretty much a must for most adventures.
Would you prefer having the Player's Guide released BEFORE the adventure is finished being written?
I would rather the Player's Guide tie in very well to the adventure. So I think waiting till the final draft of the adventure would be more likely to make them work seamlessly together better.
Are there any subjects you feel should not be breached or touched upon in an adventure?
Not really, but on more mature topics, just don't get too graphic.
What do you NOT want to see?
A series of randomly connected encounters that don't really make sense in the larger living breathing world aspect.
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...run something of smaller scale...
P.S.-I would probably try and keep such products pdf only and as low price as possible as they add an additional cost that DMs may find hard to chip in for just to run such an AP.
P.P.S.-I would also suggest looking at what the guys at Fire Mountain Games are producing in Way of the Wicked if your looking for what high quality 3rd party APs are going for these days. If anything it would give you a good understanding as to the standards of the competition.
As to your point of keeping it on a smaller scale, we are thinking of making something more akin to the first Pathfinder Adventure Path, where Golarion itself was but a name and everything began in Varisia. The players and GMs would get their first glimpse of our world through the adventure. Players would most likely know only so much about the world at large, much as in most people don't know every country, every place and every important person in the world.
We want this to be a complete adventure: Setting descriptions, Adventure and material all together.
We are only considering PDF for now and the price will definitely not be high. Our objective is to provide a worthwhile adventure for the community, not to make a profit. In fact, the cost we set may only be to refund what we use to pay for artwork and other such material.
As for Fire Mountain Games, I have already looked at their work and it was mostly the amazing quality they put out that led me to believe that a 3rd Party could produce content that I believe is as strong and fun to play as any official Paizo AP.
I'll address a few points, point by point as well.
1) Post 20th Level Content: We have our own ideas of what to make of post 20th content and it will most likely go no further than 23rd level. As for Mythic rules, it all depends on when it comes out and what me make of it.
2) Science Fiction Elements: So I take it you are not a large fan of Numeria?
3) Time Travel: I'm guessing this goes with the lack of interest for science-fiction. Is there a particular reason you are not interested?
4) Less Good vs Evil and more Lesser of Two Evils: What would you consider a job done poorly as to this aspect?
5) Monsters/Statblocks: What about the new monsters and NPCs we make? Where in the adventure would you prefer having to look them up?
6) Artwork and Maps: Noted, we don't have a huge budget so artwork will most likely be black and white and small. I am taking courses on landscape painting so some regional artwork should be there. Maps are a given.
7) Player's Guide: Would a set piece, or preview of the campaign setting be of interest though?
I think that's it for the moment.
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I'll address a few points, point by point as well.
1) Post 20th Level Content: We have our own ideas of what to make of post 20th content and it will most likely go no further than 23rd level. As for Mythic rules, it all depends on when it comes out and what me make of it.
If you wanted to, but me personally i was never a fan of epic play before. I would take a look but it would need a lot to sway me. I feel the same way about Paizo's knew Mythic rules.
2) Science Fiction Elements: So I take it you are not a large fan of Numeria?
Not even remotely. I like science fiction just fine, just have never been a fan of mixing it and fantasy.
3) Time Travel: I'm guessing this goes with the lack of interest for science-fiction. Is there a particular reason you are not interested?
I have just never hardly ever seen it done well.
4) Less Good vs Evil and more Lesser of Two Evils: What would you consider a job done poorly as to this aspect?
There needs to be very compelling in character reasons to side with one evil against another and keep working with them. Normally it comes down to evil one is just super evil and evil two is just kinda evil. Normally the first evil tends to be to over the top evil. Add in such a thing would have to be written in a way to appeal to a wide range of gaming styles, character concepts etc and I just think it is hard to do and most of the attempts I have seen haven't been done real well.
5) Monsters/Statblocks: What about the new monsters and NPCs we make? Where in the adventure would you prefer having to look them up?
New monsters or NPC's obviously need to be in the book. Me personally I prefer them in a stand alone very print friendly PDF. But I don't have a strong opinion on how they are done honestly, least not enough to effect what I think of a the product as a whole.
6) Artwork and Maps: Noted, we don't have a huge budget so artwork will most likely be black and white and small. I am taking courses on landscape painting so some regional artwork should be there. Maps are a given.
Yeah me personally I would rather see a lot less artwork than bad artwork. Maps though, quality maps can make a huge difference in a product.
7) Player's Guide: Would a set piece, or preview of the campaign setting be of interest though?
I think that's it for the moment.
Having some form of teaser or preview would be nice, but as for a actual Players Guide might to be used by the players to help them get involved in the adventure. I think that should be done near the last to make sure it fits well. I mean sometimes things come up and something in the adventure might need to change etc.
- War (Mass Battles) I would like to see it, but a lot of tables may not have the number of players to effectively do this?
Post - 20th Level Content (Not necessarily 21st level) Love to see it.
- Some Science-Fiction Elements It really depends on what you're considering as Science-Fiction and how intrinsic to the world it is.
- Diplomacy and Intrigue (More Roleplay than Rollplay) Give the option but don't force it, some people just don't like to Roleplay as much.
- Modified Profession/Craft Skills (Opening up new options) YES YES YES!
- A World With More Races (More than just the core races appearing prominently) Isn't this what the ARG was for?
- Time Travel (Only to a specific event in time) Very tricky, can be a bit too much Deus Ex Machina for me personally.
- Less Good vs Evil and more Lesser of Two Evils. Please yes.
- Factions (Earn reputation and rewards) Love it, but is 3rd party useable in PFS?
- Optional Objectives and Locations (Small side-quests and locales for players to explore.) Can you somehow make a "builder" guide for this in your AP? A few examples and then the guide would give the GM's a lot of freedom to customize for their groups.
EDIT: Bonus Questions
These are more for formatting arrangements and miscellaneous.
Do you prefer Monsters and NPCs to have their stablocks at the end of the adventure, at the moment in the adventure when you need them or in a separate document? At the moment in the doc.
Does artwork contribute highly to whether or not you will USE a product? I like artwork, but it's not a deal breaker for me.
Do maps contribute highly to whether or not you will USE a product? Separate cost? Then no. Included in cost? Then probably.
Would you prefer having the Player's Guide released BEFORE the adventure is finished being written? No.
Are there any subjects you feel should not be breached or touched upon in an adventure? Anything that is not appropriate to the overall story. If the story is dark and gritty with pockets of humor, then all is fair game. If it's all been lighthearted then a jarring rape scene will only detract.
What do you NOT want to see? If the AP ends by around level 15, then I don't want to see an epic save the world tale. If it is post level 20, then epic save the world or even universe is in order. I also don't want to see a lack of challenging battles, PC's have to fear for their lives.
Thanks for replying so quickly Dark_Mistress.
As for the Lesser of Two Evils, I may have explained it wrong. What I mean to say is that this will be more of a fight between beliefs or values than necessarily the good guys versus the villainous overlord and his evil henchmen.
@Pendin Fust
- War: What do you mean by not enough players?
- Post - 20th Level Content: Glad to see that you like the idea. Do you have any opinions on how you envision this being done?
- Some Science-Fiction Elements: By science fiction we mean including some elements from genres such as steampunk and include material from alchemical engines to perhaps even forays to the moon or other planets.
- Diplomacy and Intrigue (More Roleplay than Rollplay): Granted, but the whole adventure cannot be just optional events.
- Modified Profession/Craft Skills (Opening up new options): You seem quite interested with this point. What do you personally feel is lacking from these two skills? (Aside that Profession does nothing but give meager gp compensation...)
- A World With More Races (More than just the core races appearing prominently): Exactly our point.
- Time Travel (Only to a specific event in time): In our case, and I'll be putting this in spoilers, we want it more to work like this.
The players need to speak with some people who unfortunately passed away while on a cruise aboard a sailing ship. The players go back to the cruise itself and manage to talk with them to obtain the information they need before they pass away. As a contained event, and with knowledge that catastrophic events may occur should things go differently, they must succeed in only obtaining the information while leaving the past as it is.
- Less Good vs Evil and more Lesser of Two Evils. Please yes.
- Factions (Earn reputation and rewards) I highly doubt they would include our factions in PFS. In fact, we plan on having factions work much like they do in the Faction Guide but with minor adjustments.
- Optional Objectives and Locations (Small side-quests and locales for players to explore.) We had ideas for this but weren't sure if GMs would prefer all the side-quests to be made, or need them to work more. If interest seems high we could most likely include information on creating and implementing GM- homebrewed ideas.
EDIT: Bonus Questions
Your answers have been noted.
What do you NOT want to see?: We would very much like this adventure to reach 20th level.
Also, we have strongly been considering releasing this as just a single adventure, start to finish. It would be very much like having an entire AP in one volume a la Rise of the Runelords Anniversary or the Shackled City Adventure Path for example.
Again, thank you for taking the time to answer.
Every time we get feedback, we get closer to a product we think you'll enjoy even more.
Also, my team is asking me if you'd enjoy having pre-generated characters included at the back of the book? It's another small thing that people may or may not like.
@Pendin Fust
- War: What do you mean by not enough players?
- Post - 20th Level Content: Glad to see that you like the idea. Do you have any opinions on how you envision this being done?
- Some Science-Fiction Elements: By science fiction we mean including some elements from genres such as steampunk and include material from alchemical engines to perhaps even forays to the moon or other planets.
- Diplomacy and Intrigue (More Roleplay than Rollplay): Granted, but the whole adventure cannot be just optional events.
- Modified Profession/Craft Skills (Opening up new options): You seem quite interested with this point. What do you personally feel is lacking from these two skills? (Aside that Profession does nothing but give meager gp compensation...)
- A World With More Races (More than just the core races appearing prominently): Exactly our point.
- Time Travel (Only to a specific event in time): In our case, and I'll be putting this in spoilers, we want it more to work like this.** spoiler omitted **
- Less Good vs Evil and more Lesser of Two Evils. Please yes.
- Factions (Earn reputation and rewards) I highly doubt they would include our factions in PFS. In fact, we plan on having factions work much like they do in the Faction Guide but with minor adjustments.
- Optional Objectives and Locations (Small side-quests and locales for players to explore.) We had ideas for this but weren't sure if GMs would prefer all the side-quests to be made, or need them to work more. If interest seems high we could most likely include information on creating and implementing GM-...
War Granted I don't have a lot of experience in this arena, but is it the PC's vs. a horde? Or are the PC's controlling multiple NPC's in the war party? If you only have a table of 3-4 would they want to play a whole bunch of people? Not sure myself...
Post 20th level I certainly enjoy what I've heard so far about the Mythic stuff from Paizo. I do not enjoy the thought of being able to "kill" a god as a PC. It just shouldn't be able to happen. Post 20th is where I start thinking about multiclassing, but level 1 skillsets at 20th level just don't appeal to me. PrC's could be good, but would need to be tailored to the specific AP, since I don't think any of the PrC's in Pathfinder are really strong enough to start taking at level 20 (although I have not read Paths of Prestige yet so there may be something in there). This would be a non-trivial undertaking as you'd have to think up rules etc. for this level of play if you want to add additional class levels or for new PrC's (that are unlockable ONLY by being level 20+).
Science Fiction This sounds pretty cool to me. I'd want other planets to be explorable, especially post 20th level. As long as it fits thematically (with backstory to the technology) I think it would be a great addition to the world.
Diplomacy Also true, not every encounter should be optional RP, but it's a fine line to tread FORCING them to RP a situation and just having them lose out on some bonus item or some such. Key story plots would need to be low DC RP checks, otherwise it could be a total party fail.
Modified Profession/Craft They are purely fluff (from my viewpoint) as they stand. There are the rare occasions a check benefits from one of the Profession/Crafts but I think all too infrequently. It goes into the story for me, my characters are built around a job or skill that they are good or bad at. My current favorite is a dwarf who's a gemcutter but nobody is in the buying mindset. He's down on his luck and turned to PFS to supplement his income. Having said that, I also use his skill to try and glean information from potential NPC's. I set up "shop" at a wharf or merchant district and use my Gemcutting to attract people to talk to. Selling isn't as important as it is to get people to talk to you. That kind of thing is what I want more of.
Time Travel It sounds good, minor plot point, but it does still leave openings for "those" players who just want to screw with everything. And I have no idea what you do...can't be too harsh by saying the flower vase they broke resulted in their grandparents not getting together and so they were never born...unless you can make a table of that kind of thing which launches another side quest...that could be funnish
Side Quests I know in a pinch I'd use the pre-gen side quests, but I love making optional encounters for my groups.
What would I like to NOT see Cool, in that case I just wouldn't want it to be TOO over the top as in we need to kill a god. Like I said earlier it shouldn't be able to happen unless another god is sponsoring the PC's, in which case it still shouldn't be PC vs god...it should be like an avatar vs. avatar.
I personally don't use the pre-gen characters at the back (like Shalelu Andosana in RotR).
@Webguy2003: Thanks for answering! You actually didn't leave me with any questions so I'll just answer in paragraph form.
So far, we plan on having this adventure be a 1-20 thing. We really want to make this and it's a big project but hey, you got to think big sometimes.
We don't plan on needing GMs to need to memorize a campaign setting's worth of information to run this adventure.
The information required to run the adventure will be no more than just your ordinary Adventure Path.
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I see you listed Steampunk as Science fiction. To me they are not the same thing. When I think science fiction I think, laser, space ships, robots, things beyond modern tech.
Steampunk I like and if done well don't mind it mixed with fantasy.
As for the evil vs evil, good vs good might be interesting. Or just factions fighting with no one really being good or evil but a bit of both. Just not a fan of evil vs evil. Been done and tends to be hard to pull off IMHO.
** spoiler omitted **
War Granted I don't have a lot of experience in this arena, but is it the PC's vs. a horde? Or are the PC's controlling multiple NPC's in the war party? If you only have a table of 3-4 would they want to play a whole bunch of people? Not sure myself...
Post 20th level I certainly enjoy what I've heard so far about the Mythic stuff from Paizo....
Once again, thank you for your swift replies.
War: We are between a few ideas. Kingmaker provided us with a mass-combat system of rules bur we are also contemplating player's doing their own actions while the war rages around them. There may also be a mix between mass-combat and player oriented combat.
Post-20th: Prestige Classes were one of the bigger ideas we were considering.
Science-Fiction: Again, I'll be putting this in spoilers.
The technology level would be such that people are in the process of designing the first methods of reaching the moon. Nearing the end, they might very well either be able to see the first moon walk, assist on its completion, or actually be the ones to do it.
Profession/Craft: I like the ideas you have.
Time Travel: Actually, the repercussions are not to be campaign-wrecking.
As everyone on the ship is fated to die and the ship to be destroyed, the only option available to the players would be to attempt to save the ship from being destroyed. Of course, the campaign uses this as a plot point, not a method for players to ruin the game.
Conclusion: We promise, there is no god killing. As for side-quests, we feel it wouldn't be too hard to include rules for this.
I see you listed Steampunk as Science fiction. To me they are not the same thing. When I think science fiction I think, laser, space ships, robots, things beyond modern tech.
Steampunk I like and if done well don't mind it mixed with fantasy.
As for the evil vs evil, good vs good might be interesting. Or just factions fighting with no one really being good or evil but a bit of both. Just not a fan of evil vs evil. Been done and tends to be hard to pull off IMHO.
I'd always considered Steampunk as a sci-fi/fantasy blend. The furthest "technology" we currently envision is the ability to reach the moon.
Sound very cool and I am getting excited to see some drafts :) !
War I haven't played Kingmaker yet, but I like the idea of the war raging around the PC's. I'm just not a fan of controlling NPC's, since it's not my character and I'm not attached to them. Would it be something like controlling siege engines and vice versa dodging occasionaly siege weapon fire? That could be fun!
Science Fiction I'm with Dark Mistress, lasers and such don't do it for me, BUT, steampunk integrates very well, kind of like playing during the industrial revolution.
Mini tie-ins Now, I don't know if you had heard of the Reaper kickstarter that just ended over the weekend, but there was a clockwork dragon they now have a mold for in their Bones line, do you have any mini tie-ins in mind with this?
I like Kickstarter but unfortunately I do not live in the states so I won't be using it. As for the preview I meant more along products like an extra gazetteer on the region itself, a campaign preview (much like the old Age of Worms Campaign Overload), etc.
As someone that is currently writing an adventure for a Kickstarter, I am definitely interested.
- War (Mass Battles) - It would be cool to see this. An adventure where you rise up the ranks and see the horrors of war. No bad guys, just people desperately trying to defend their country.
- Post - 20th Level Content (Not necessarily 21st level) - I echo the sentiment of waiting till mythic rules are out.
- Some Science-Fiction Elements - Yes. Things like steampunk, alchemical engines, Eberron, ancient astronaut... definitely look to some famous pulp writings like Burroughs for some great examples. I personally ran an adventure that was like At The Mountains of Madness mixed with the monster from John Carpenter's The Thing. That was fun.
- Diplomacy and Intrigue (More Roleplay than Rollplay) - I'd like a good balance between the two honestly.
- Modified Profession/Craft Skills (Opening up new options) - Ultimate Campaign is offering this so I probably wouldn't worry about working on this.
- A World With More Races (More than just the core races appearing prominently) - Yes to a point. I feel like the plane touched races should remain fairly uncommon/rare.
- Time Travel (Only to a specific event in time) - Time travel is a headache as a GM.
- Less Good vs Evil and more Lesser of Two Evils. - I like morally gray and redemption themes. I also have no problems with good characters.
- Factions (Earn reputation and rewards) - Yes please!
- Optional Objectives and Locations (Small side-quests and locales for players to explore.) - As a RPG player, I want this as well as side dungeons and hidden bosses :)
Do you prefer Monsters and NPCs to have their stablocks at the end of the adventure, at the moment in the adventure when you need them or in a separate document?
Main NPCs can be in the back. Bosses should be with their minions in the adventure so I don't have to switch back and forth in the AP
Does artwork contribute highly to whether or not you will USE a product?
I'd rather no artwork than one done poorly. But overall, it doesn't weigh heavily on my decision to buy a product
Do maps contribute highly to whether or not you will USE a product?
As long as they are clear and legible, I'm fine. They don't have to be pretty.
Would you prefer having the Player's Guide released BEFORE the adventure is finished being written?
Naw. Better to have it done when it is all turned in and ready
Are there any subjects you feel should not be breached or touched upon in an adventure?
Me personally, no. But I am a big fan of Nick Lodge and Richard Prett and I'm the kind of person that thought Hook Mountain was tamer than people give it credit for so take that as you will..
What do you NOT want to see?
Stereotypical races. Tired of tsundere dwarves, aloof elves, and quirky gnomes.
@Odraude: Thanks for your responses!
To answer a few points:
1) People have mentioned a separate PDF containing all the required necessary statblocks, separated by chapter. Would this also interest you?
2) I loved the Hook Mountain Massacre personally! Wake of the Watcher was also quite fun.
3) We've really focused on steering away from stereotypes but not to the point to make it seem obvious. For example, we've kept the races as history has noted them as being. Elves in the forest, dwarves in the mountain for example. However, not every elf is aloof, not every dwarf is obviously a drinker and I know for a fact we have a gnome statted out to be more creepy than quirky... the ugly creepy.
@Odraude: Thanks for your responses!
To answer a few points:
1) People have mentioned a separate PDF containing all the required necessary statblocks, separated by chapter. Would this also interest you?
2) I loved the Hook Mountain Massacre personally! Wake of the Watcher was also quite fun.
3) We've really focused on steering away from stereotypes but not to the point to make it seem obvious. For example, we've kept the races as history has noted them as being. Elves in the forest, dwarves in the mountain for example. However, not every elf is aloof, not every dwarf is obviously a drinker and I know for a fact we have a gnome statted out to be more creepy than quirky... the ugly creepy.
1) Yeah I'm down. Ya dig? ;)
2) Agreed. I'm always down with more mature adventures with the option of changing things if your players aren't comfortable. I know from experience I had to change the name of the Akata in Second Darkness (Bestiary 2, my avatar) because one of my players is from Nigeria and that word is like saying the N word.
3)Excellent. I'm also not a fan of difference for the sake of it. Pretty much I like my races to be personalities, not caricatures. Also the image of a tsundere dwarf amuses me.
"It's not like I like you or anything Legolas!"
personaly im most for post 20 prestige classes and have requested such in the past, everything else sounds pretty great to me. i was wondering how divine would work in your campaign, personally i would like to see existing mythologies get some love.
@toastwolf: The prestige class may end up being:
A- a single common prestige class with variable abilities to complement characters
B- multiple prestige classes for different characters
Personally, I prefer form A
@webguy: I believe that isn't covered by the OGL so I cannot use those rules.
@webguy2003: I could, but I really want to avoid any legislation problems so I prefer working with what Paizo or some 3PP publishers have made.
I've seen some others out there and I've also got some ideas of my own to work with.
I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed so far and with such a great gaming community here I hope more will add their voice.
For better or for worse, we've begun writing the 1st chapter of the adventure, set in the smoggy industrious port side city of Dryhten.
For your pleasure, here is Dryhten's settlement statistics.
Dryhten
N small city
Corruption +1; Crime -2; Economy +1; Law +3; Lore +4; Society +2
Qualities: (4) Port-of-Call, Rumormongering Citizens, Strategic Location, Superstitious
Danger +5
Demographics
Government autocracy
Population 10,000 (6,000 humans, 4,000 mixed (elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, half-elf and ratfolk)
Notable NPCs
Lord Mayor Peter Shahend (LN male human aristocrat 5)
Officer Vivianne Krohs (LG female fighter 2/ cavalier (Order of Progress) 2)
Bishop Querich Sr. (NG old male human cleric of Eveldine 6)
Detective Wallen O'Kenner (CG male half-elf bard (detective) 4)
Marketplace
Base Value 4,400 gp; Purchase Limit 25,000 gp; Spellcasting 4th
Magic Items: See individual shops on page XX
In keeping with the original proposal, one of the items is in the possession of a Minotaur, in the center of a labyrinth. The labyrinth can be underground in an island infested with every Greek mythos monster seems appropriate. The rocky coastline has Harpies, for example.
The sphinx could have a complex riddle as to the entrance and is betting with the chimera as to who in the party will solve the riddle first.
- War (Mass Battles)
No thanks. I mean I like war as a backdrop or even playing a strike-team while a battle rages nearby but I don't have the mindset for playing warhammer and the like.
- Post - 20th Level Content (Not necessarily 21st level)
Although I always wish I had more power and rarely get to roll with characters above, say, 8th level; Epic-level stuff is just...meh. It's like DBZ when every single character is strong enough to blow up a planet, it just doesn't seem to make sense.
- Some Science-Fiction Elements
I could take it or leave it. It's usually fun for me, depending on the implementation, but if it provokes a particularly hateful response among other players they tend to suck the fun out of the whole thing.
- Diplomacy and Intrigue (More Roleplay than Rollplay)
Yeah. I also like "dynamic diplomacy," where the adventure includes choosing whether to, say, rescue the princess or deliver her to different kidnappers and the related political ramifications. Not everybody's good at acting, but most of us have played a bioware game.
- Modified Profession/Craft Skills (Opening up new options)
Huh?
- A World With More Races (More than just the core races appearing prominently)
Yes, actually. I was just thinking about how much I don't like Elves and Dwarves, or more accurately "declining and waning" Tolkien-style elves and dwarves. I listen to enough whining from long-lived people about the decline and decay of western civilization in the real world and *everybody* has elves and dwarves. I especially like the rat-folk, there's something charming about those little gypsies.
- Time Travel (Only to a specific event in time)
I could take it or leave it. It's a solid plot device but whether or not it's fun depends on the implementation, much like the entirety of the plot.
- Less Good vs Evil and more Lesser of Two Evils.
What about greater of two goods? I don't like,...
Thanks for replying and helping out there!
As to answer a few questions:
1) We don't plan on having the mass-combat play out as wargaming.
2) Post 20th level will be far from "planet destroying". We feel that an ending set possibly off-world requires some spectacular heroes.
3) I should really change the "Lesser of Two Evils" to a different name. It's essentially a war between two beliefs, two different values. Not necessarily good vs evil.
4) I like some of your last ideas, especially better living through magic, ambiguous necromancy and mobile living space.
As Chapter I continues to be written, we were wondering what the interest level would be for including opportunities for evil characters to shine?
I homebrewed a game where I included the option for 1 of the PC's to work with the BBEG and switch sides at a crucial point. He loved it, the group loved it, and I loved GMing it.
Partly because he played it so well, there were a few moments where the character did a couple of funny things but were totally plausible.
Next time we ran it, there was no betrayal by a PC and they kept questioning each other at any hint of oddness. Coupled with a Charm or Dominate spell, they actually took out one of their own party members!
In short, evil chars need love too :)
We do have recurring villains, and we'll envision adding occasions for villainy, but we're not sold on doing a "You can switch over to the entire team" plot. That really costs a lot of space and extra planning.
We'll see.
Remember, if you have any ideas keep posting, it can only help!
As of now, we are working with the Slow Experience Track.
Opinions on Some Choices
Hex Grids: We are currently hex gridding the world map and having overland travel be done by hex to simplify the arduous task of getting everywhere. Any views or opinions on this matter? (Yes, you heard me, everywhere. Suck it up and buy a horse.)
Global Campaign Timeline: We are setting up a timeline that spans a good portion of the campaign after one of the chapters end. This gives us encounters and events GMs will run at certain days, while players will attempt to save the world before time runs out. (We plan on having notes on managing the timeline and on how to cut some slack.)
Tying up Loose Ends/ Living, Breathing World: As we continue to write up Chapter I, we've added in some parts of the story that are only completed later on. I don't want to give the example away, even in spoilers, but we plan on having some parts of the story only find closure later on. Expect NPCs names to matter and the fates of friends and foes to play on around you.
Enhanced Professions: We're currently in the steps of trying out our prototype subsystem allowing you to obtain rare materials and resources to craft more powerful equipment. Balancing is currently the issue, and we're continuing to work on this.
Expanded Races: Dryhten, the player character's starting location and the major settlement of Pendallwater is home to a large community of ratfolk. This is but the first step in bringing less common races into the foreground, including some new ones.
No New Classes: We have decided to not create any new base classes. Some Prestige Classes maybe. Archetypes probably.
Slow Experience Track
This adventure is a long one, but some GMs may want to move quicker. We're including a section on how to run the... almost said the adventure's name there... whoops... anyways, there will be notes on what to remove to keep the player experience/wealth on track if you decide to move to a medium track. A fast track is not recommended.
Third Party OGL: Again, if anyone knows of any great 3rd Party Material that is OGL, we'd love to hear it. We're always ready to expand our options.
Matt Limoges, Worldheart Design
If you are looking to do hex crawls, I'd suggest looking here at The Alexandrian's articles on hexcrawl design. He's been updating them lately and I think he has some great ideas. If you want a truly living, breathing world with hexcrawls, don't neglect weather. I know Spes Magna Games has a cool Dodeca Weather generator that works wonders.
I'm down for Prestige Classes. I know I'm in the minority but I like Prestige Classes to make multiclassing options cooler and easier.
Thank you for posting a link to the hexcrawl thread, I'd already been made aware of it thanks to another thread, but thank you nonetheless. Weather has already been thought of, and I can tell you, it's not just rain and shine out there. You're going to need much more than an umbrella.
We like the idea of Prestige Classes, especially since we have planned factions and adding in that little touch of flavor in the form of a PrC is something we want to reinforce.
Updating Again Because I Work Late And It's Boring Here
Just here to add in a real quick update to the long list of things we already have planned.
Here it is.
New Animal Companions. And we don't mean just another new animal... no, these are animal companions that people are going to stare at if you walk into town with them.
Convention style animal companions: This is how you add a critter from an adventure. It's a bit of work for a familiar or a paladin's warhorse, but it gave a lot of roleplaying depth.
Convention style animal companions: This is how you add a critter from an adventure. It's a bit of work for a familiar or a paladin's warhorse, but it gave a lot of roleplaying depth.
I don't quite get what you mean here.