Arcane Builder

[MagiMaster]

Short question: is there any reason why a character couldn't take arcane builder for a crafting feat they haven't qualified for/taken yet?

[blackbloodtroll]

Where is that from?

[HaraldKlak]

@BBT: One of the arcane discoveries in UM.

@OP: RAW doesn't seem to prohibit it. Especially as the Arcane Builder discovery is flavoured as exceptional theoretical knowledge, it could reasonable be optained before the wizard has the practical knowledge to do it.

[LazarX]

If the discovery does not list any prerequisites that you haven't met, then no there's nothing stopping you.

Just remember that feats you don't survive to take, don't do you any good whatsoever.

[MagiMaster]

I was thinking of taking this at level 1 for craft wondrous item, and then picking that up at level 3. This is for a crafting specialized wizard, so I'm not sure there's anything else useful to do with my level 1 feat.

[William Sinclair]

Gonna kick this up again, but I have an issue in my campaign with the Arcane Builder discovery.

Player is arguing (to a point of rage quitting) that the Arcane Builder discovery replaces the associated crafting feat. I've dug and dug, and can't find an official ruling by any Paizo staff (feel free to jump in!), since arcane discoveries replace bonus feats. I kinda see his point since only Wizard's get access to discoveries, but since it doesn't specifically say that in the description of Arcane Builder, I ruled that he still needs the crafting feat.

I argued that the discovery augments the feat since, as somebody else to eloquently put it, a 25% reduction to 0 (not having the feat at all) is still 0, because it specifically states in the magical crafting rules that you absolutely must have the crafting feat to craft an item. Everything else can be missing and just makes the item harder to craft.

Thoughts? Does anybody know if the description of this discovery has be retconned or fixed?

[Azothath]

William Sinclair -

Arcane Discoveries and scroll down to Arcane Builder.
It's clear it just reduces the time to craft a type magic item based off the tagged magic item crafting feat, or conversely raises the 1000gp/day crafting limit to 1333.33gp/day.
Arcane Builder does not replace the need to have the magic item crafting feat, same reason you need the feat, see Magic Item Creation below.

Crafting a magic item requires the crafting feat (see below). So an efficient crafter has to take two feats; the crafting feat and arcane builder(selecting the correct crafting feat). The order isn't mandated. Silly people can have arcane builder target crafting feats they don't have.

Magic Item Creation:

see Magic Items - Rules
Magic Item Creation
To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats which allow them to invest time and money in an item’s creation. At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item. If an item type has multiple possible skills, you choose which skill to make the check with. The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item (see Cursed Items for more information).
...
your question is answered right in the first sentence. Arcane builder does not invest time and money in an item's creation.

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seems pretty clear thus nothing to fix IMO.

As a GM you can offer Retraining.

[Azothath]

and Crafting & Bypassing (Magic Item Crafting) Requirements CRB FAQ 2013-02.
probably why the last post in this thread was 2012-08

[Chuck Mount]

Just point out to your player, the part where it reads, "You create items of this type 25% faster than normal,". Normally, without the feat, he can't craft the items. Simple as that.