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i always thought they take full damage from clerics channeling to harm incorporeal undead like ghosts, and cure spells used to damage undead. but not seeing anything in channel energy, and not seeing anything in Incorporeal about positive energy. Is it somewhere else? or does positititive energy really not work any better than magic weapons against inc. undead?
holy water says it harms them, even though its not magical. but i guess they take half that damage too.
Incorporeal: Creatures with the incorporeal condition do not have a physical body. Incorporeal creatures are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Incorporeal creatures take half damage (50%) from magic weapons, spells, spell-like effects, and supernatural effects. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from other incorporeal creatures and effects, as well as all force effects.
Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the cleric. The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to 1d6 points of damage plus 1d6 points of damage for every two cleric levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on). Creatures that take damage from channeled energy receive a Will save to halve the damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the cleric's level + the cleric's Charisma modifier. Creatures healed by channeled energy cannot exceed their maximum hit point total—all excess healing is lost. A cleric may channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. This is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A cleric can choose whether or not to include herself in this effect. A cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability.
Incorporeal (Ex) An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source. Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.
By the rules they only take half.
Helaman:
Wraithstrike is correct but just as an FYI James Jacobs states that he uses full damage for Channel. He thinks the rules on this are vague.
- Gauss
Helaman:
Wraithstrike is correct but just as an FYI James Jacobs states that he uses full damage for Channel. He thinks the rules on this are vague.
- Gauss
I use full damage also. I also do it for disrupt undead. I just did not mention it because I did not want to confuse anyone with a houserule.
Wraithstrike, agreed. But JJ's opinion has some weight on vague rules. People need to decide for themselves if this qualifies.
- Gauss
In both Bestiary 2 and Bestiary 3, the description of the Incorporeal (Ex) ability has its wording changed.
From the PRD (Bestiary 3 Universal Monster Rules):
Incorporeal (Ex) An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source. Although it is not a magical attack, holy water affects incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature (except for channel energy). Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.
Of course that only seems to change how the non-damaging aspects of Channel Energy affect incorporeal creatures, but it is a change nonetheless. While incorporeal creatures still take half damage from the channeled positive energy by this wording, at least the Turn Undead feat doesn't have a 50% chance of failure on them.
The wording is vague so RAW would seem that it is only half damage.
However:
Every GM that I know of has channel as full damage.
About 1/3 of the GM's I know use positive energy from cure spells as also full damage.
The errata from Bestiary 1 includes the language Wolf quoted above as well. Seems pretty clear to me.
In both Bestiary 2 and Bestiary 3, the description of the Incorporeal (Ex) ability has its wording changed.
From the PRD (Bestiary 3 Universal Monster Rules):
Incorporeal (Ex) An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source. Although it is not a magical attack, holy water affects incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature (except for channel energy). Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.Of course that only seems to change how the non-damaging aspects of Channel Energy affect incorporeal creatures, but it is a change nonetheless. While incorporeal creatures still take half damage from the channeled positive energy by this wording, at least the Turn Undead feat doesn't have a 50% chance of failure on them.
That bolded area is only speaking on the chance for it to hurt the incorporeal monster, not the percentage of damage done.
PS:Just clearing things up in case it was read the other way.
By default, channel positive energy only causes damage to undead. It requires extra feats to modify this. Why didn't the authors clarify this properly?
On the other hand, channel negative energy is an explicit exception as noted in that rule. But then the question arises: does channel negative energy do no healing or full healing? Both are valid interpretations.
The original rule seemed counter-intuitive, and the clarification/erratum made the situation worse.
The incorporeal rules don't say that hit point based affects only count as half their normal number. It is was worded like that it would affect healing and damage. It only calls out damage so by RAW that is all that is affected, so they benefit fully from any healing whether it is from a channel or an inflict wounds spell.
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That bolded area is only speaking on the chance for it to hurt the incorporeal monster, not the percentage of damage done.PS:Just clearing things up in case it was read the other way.
it only speaks on the chance for non-damaging corporeal spells and effects to effect incorporeal creatures 50% of the time. channel energy when used to cause no damage, i.e. turn undead, affects undead 100% of the time.
otherwise it falls under the category of taking half damage from spells or magic weapons. don't just pay attention to the bold, its a parentheitical citation within a closed sentence: "Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature (except for channel energy)."
the exception does not look like it applies to ghosts hit by damage from a corporeal source channeling positive energy.