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- First and foremost, I would like to be able to become as cool as the mythic NPCs. That is, I would like the system to stat out, say, Nex, as a Wizard 20/Mythic Archmage 10, rather than have Nex be a Wizard 30 which would then be unattainable to PCs. I want to be able, as a mythic character, to accomplish the same kind of mythic deeds as the most powerful NPCs in the setting, not just have the chance to defeat them in combat.
- Immortality options. Currently, some classes get them as capstones. If you prestige out or multiclass, or play the wrong mystery or bloodline, you cannot get them. If mythic powers extend such options to more characters, I would be happy.
- Open-ended lists of mythic powers. I.e. it should be possible to add in new things ("I have ten familiars! Wheee!") for characters where they fit.
- Options to allow spontaneous spellcasters to swap out some spells known each day. Otherwise there will be demigods who can blast through the heavens but never ever learn how to identify magic items, no matter how much effort they put into it.
- Mythic metamagic that remove restrictions on spells, such as removing component costs or raising level caps.
- Demigod capstone things that lets you grant spells to your followers.
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The Silmarillion, as stated earlier, is a great example for mythic characters. Fingolfin's battle with Morgoth at the Ruin of Beleriand, Turin's slaying of Glaurung, Feanor crafting the Silmarils, Melian warding Thingol's domain, Beren and Luthien's escape from Morgoth. These are all great examples of what mythic characters should be able to accomplish.
- First and foremost, I would like to be able to become as cool as the mythic NPCs. That is, I would like the system to stat out, say, Nex, as a Wizard 20/Mythic Archmage 10, rather than have Nex be a Wizard 30 which would then be unattainable to PCs. I want to be able, as a mythic character, to accomplish the same kind of mythic deeds as the most powerful NPCs in the setting, not just have the chance to defeat them in combat.
- Immortality options. Currently, some classes get them as capstones. If you prestige out or multiclass, or play the wrong mystery or bloodline, you cannot get them. If mythic powers extend such options to more characters, I would be happy.
- Open-ended lists of mythic powers. I.e. it should be possible to add in new things ("I have ten familiars! Wheee!") for characters where they fit.
- Options to allow spontaneous spellcasters to swap out some spells known each day. Otherwise there will be demigods who can blast through the heavens but never ever learn how to identify magic items, no matter how much effort they put into it.
- Mythic metamagic that remove restrictions on spells, such as removing component costs or raising level caps.
- Demigod capstone things that lets you grant spells to your followers.
Top of the list, + one billion, if they can do it @#!@## so can I, and no its a npc thing!!
The rest, +1!!
The Silmarillion, as stated earlier, is a great example for mythic characters. Fingolfin's battle with Morgoth at the Ruin of Beleriand, Turin's slaying of Glaurung, Feanor crafting the Silmarils, Melian warding Thingol's domain, Beren and Luthien's escape from Morgoth. These are all great examples of what mythic characters should be able to accomplish.
Don't forget Ecthelion killing Gothmog, Captain of the Balrogs at the fall of Gondolin, or Glorfindel sacrificing himself to slay a balrog as the survivors fled into the mountains! The Children of Hurin would also be a good source, insofar as it goes into more detail about that section of the Silmarillion.
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The Silmarillion, as stated earlier, is a great example for mythic characters. Fingolfin's battle with Morgoth at the Ruin of Beleriand, Turin's slaying of Glaurung, Feanor crafting the Silmarils, Melian warding Thingol's domain, Beren and Luthien's escape from Morgoth. These are all great examples of what mythic characters should be able to accomplish.Don't forget Ecthelion killing Gothmog, Captain of the Balrogs at the fall of Gondolin, or Glorfindel sacrificing himself to slay a balrog as the survivors fled into the mountains! The Children of Hurin would also be a good source, insofar as it goes into more detail about that section of the Silmarillion.
Tolkien is generally a fantastic source for mythic stuff.
As for some examples of what I think a mythic martial character should be capable of without magic, off the top of my head:
-Shouldering a boulder rolling down a mountain so it explodes instead of flattening him.
-Firing an arrow over a mountain at an unseen foe.
-Smashing a city wall with a single blow.
-Holding a dragon by the tail to prevent him from flying away.
-Tearing off a giant's head (or other limbs) with his bare hands.
-Pulling a ship while swimming.
-Holding up the roof of a collapsing cave.
-Smithing a minor artifact.
-Carrying a huge or larger statue out of a temple on his back.
-Throwing an axe that beheads multiple enemies.
-Bouncing a projectile around multiple corners to hit a target.
-Pounding the ground to send fissures towards an approaching army.
-Felling an entire forest in one day.
-Holding her breath for hours or days.
-Running without stopping for weeks.
-Collapsing a volcano's crater to prevent it from erupting.
Personally,
I think the following (most of which are already listed) are excellent examples of mythic mixed with normal heroic mixed with normal people.
A) The Belgariad : Belgarian's family (with the little white marks) are obviously the Mythics. But the heroes of the group are just as heroic and capable of mayhem as the average PF character.
B) The Simmilarion : Same thing as the Belgariad (duh, same author).
C) The Dresden Files : Again, normals and mythics mixed together.
D) The Iron Druid : This is a little series I recently started reading, the main character is the last druid, and he's managed to bind iron into his aura, and as we all know, cold iron is anathema to magic (at least in that reality). So he's highly resistant to magic, but he can still use his own magic. Witches, vampires, werewolves, and even gods end up fighting with or against him. Turns out gods get created whenever enough people believe in them. (And no surprise, but Thor is the ***hole of the godverse, and people keep asking the main character to go kill Thor). Very good mythic abilities compared to normal monsters.
E) Thomas Covenant Series : I absolutely hated this series. But even the worst series in the world has some good ideas. The fire giants were immune to fire, but they still felt the pain, so a mythic fire giant could wade through lava, but it hurt and took a lot of willpower. He'd also glow like a spark plug for hours afterward, and start fires where he went until he cooled off. :)
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Something I'd like to see for melee fighters is a way to slash someone from afar. Like a vacuum slash from plenty of anime. Or something like Fierce Deity's "laser sword" (1:20 min in). I think that would be really cool.
A lot of the tall tales probably have some good mythic stuff. Barring dying of a heart attack of course.
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Barbarian: Crack the Earth to enter the Abyss
Bard: Defeat an Archdevil in duelling fiddles.
Cleric: Call an army of celestials/fiends/undead/warrior spirits
Druid: Plant an entire forest and have it grow in a day
Fighter: Slice the wings off a fly.
Monk: Moment of Serenity, like time stop with punching.
Paladin: Convert a demon to righteousness.
Ranger: Track across planar boundaries.
Rogue: Be the invisiblest, pick the first lock of Abadar.
Sorcerer: Transform into an aspect of your ancestry (Dragon!)
Wizard: Create new spells on the fly.
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Mythic Rahadoum vs the World!
Fight to sever the influence of the gods from the world and usher a new age of freedom for mortality.
Or:
Fight against those that are trying to do that very thing and may have a legitimate shot at doing so if you don't stop them.
+1 to everything Jackissocool just said, and add the following:
-Beat a thirsty giant in a drinking contest.
-Change the weather by firing arrows at the sky.
-Continue fighting for several rounds after dying.
-Craft a thousand swords in one day.
-Fight blindfolded without penalty.
-Save a dying companion by literally fighting off Death.
-Shatter spell effects with combat maneuvers.
-Use attacks of opportunity to destroy incoming projectiles.
This is great. Love all these.
Just about the whole Rave Master anime/manga series is inspiration for suitably Mythic accomplishments I think.
Example 1 this is a fight between the protagonist and some of the most powerful enemies in the series (up to that point). He has a sword with 10 different forms, each with it's own unique power. Clearly, the sword is an artifact, but Haru, the protagonist, becomes progressively more and more powerful, going far above and beyond the limits of even super-humans.
How about the ability to make multiple, concurrently active weaker clones of yourself and run them as a hive mind?
Another good source of mythic inspiration is many Burroughs novels, especially the Tarzan and John Carter series.
John Carter was essentially superhuman on Mars, and Tarzan had legendary skills in the jungles of Africa.
Bard: Defeat an Archdevil in duelling fiddles.
I know it's a well-known trope, but I still snorted soda at reading that.
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Bard: Defeat an Archdevil in duelling fiddles.I know it's a well-known trope, but I still snorted soda at reading that.
Some things are classic for a reason.
Alchemist: Craft Nuclear Bomb
Cavalier: Mount grows wings. Dragonback Jousting.
Inquisitor: Put an Archdevil on trial and win.
Oracle: Rewind Time (Everything that happened was just their vision).
Summoner: Open a Gate Cascade (Gate in a creature that can cast gate who then casts gate, who then casts gate, who then casts gate to call forth an army of celestials/demons/devils/elementals or whatever.)
Witch: Retroactive Hex - A hex so powerful it affects ancestors. Put a nation to sleep for 100 years.
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Witch: Retroactive Hex - A hex so powerful it affects ancestors. Put a nation to sleep for 100 years.
Witch: Retroactive Hex - A hex so powerful it affects ancestors. Put a nation to sleep for 100 years.FAMILICIDE!
Beat me to it.
It only occurred to me because I had just got done re-reading that part of the comic like 2 hours ago.
I want Mythic Stealth. Like invisibility or HiPS, but better. Not magical, no special conditions, just that good.
Heheh ... it can be amusing. We've got a Ranger/Scout whose Hide (this is 3.5e) is up at around +80, well above what most of the other PCs are even capable of seeing except for the druid, who's kicking with a Spot of something like +90. It's a bit of a running joke at our Friday night games.
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Monk: Moment of Serenity, like time stop with punching.
Emphasis mine. A very large +1.
I want Mythic Stealth. Like invisibility or HiPS, but better. Not magical, no special conditions, just that good.Heheh ... it can be amusing. We've got a Ranger/Scout whose Hide (this is 3.5e) is up at around +80, well above what most of the other PCs are even capable of seeing except for the druid, who's kicking with a Spot of something like +90. It's a bit of a running joke at our Friday night games.
lol That's awesome.
What makes it even more funny is even with the Faerie Fire cast on the Ranger/Scout, everyone will probably still not even see him. Well, everyone except the Druid, of course.
...
E) Thomas Covenant Series : I absolutely hated this series. But even the worst series in the world has some good ideas. The fire giants were immune to fire, but they still felt the pain, so a mythic fire giant could wade through lava, but it hurt and took a lot of willpower. He'd also glow like a spark plug for hours afterward, and start fires where he went until he cooled off. :)
I hated that series too. "Leperoutcastunclean!"
I forgot to mention the generational thing earlier. :P Oh well. Besides the mentioned examples, it'd be neat if a mythic transmutation spell could permanently alter the target and all of their descendents. Then when someone asks where owlbears came from I can say "I did it!" and laugh maniacally. :D
I hated that series too. "Leperoutcastunclean!"...
E) Thomas Covenant Series : I absolutely hated this series. But even the worst series in the world has some good ideas. The fire giants were immune to fire, but they still felt the pain, so a mythic fire giant could wade through lava, but it hurt and took a lot of willpower. He'd also glow like a spark plug for hours afterward, and start fires where he went until he cooled off. :)
As if that wasn't enough, the leper is the most unsympathetic character in history. He get's cured of leperosy, and rapes the woman that cures him. In the first chapter. Gah, by the end of the series (and yes, I forced myself to read it due to it getting a glowing revue by a friend, found later they wanted to spread the misery), I was happy that him and the bad guy spent the rest of eternity locked in mortal combat. I just wish he'd been punished worse than the bad guy, who wasn't nearly as bad as the hero was.
A neat thing I'd like martials to be able to do is make [i]anything[i/] into a deadly weapon - way beyond just improvised weapons.
"How did the prisoner manage to escape and kill 300 of my Black Guard?"
"Somebody gave him a napkin."
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Here are my suggestions for Mythic abilities:
Archmage
Artifact Creation
This ability grants the character the ability to craft minor artifacts, such as a Staff of the Magi. The character must have meet all other requirements of the item in question, such as Craft Staff. At the GM's discretion, this ability may be used in concert with other crafters to forge or repair greater artifacts.
Greater Eschew Materials
You can cast any spell with a material component or focus costing 25,000 gp or less without needing that component. The casting of the spell still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. Up to 25,000gp of materials and/or focii can be eschewed in this manner per day. If the spell requires a material component that costs more than 25,000gp or if the 25,000gp limit would be exceeded by casting a spell, you must have the material component on hand to cast the spell, as normal.
Spell Persistence
Spells cast with the Extend Spell metamagic feat can instead be given a permanent duration. Casting a spell in this manner uses up the spell slot as normal, but the spell continues to "occupy" the spell slot for as long as the persistent effect continues. Thus, the caster may not prepare another spell in the "occupied" slot. Sorcerers and similar casters who receive a specified number of slots per day will have one of their slots "occupied" in a similar manner. Thus, a caster with 6 3rd level slots can only cast 5 spells if a 3rd level slot is used to create a persistent spell.
Wizardry I/II
Your number of 1st and 2nd level arcane spells per day are doubled. Bonus spells from high ability scores or school specialization are not doubled. This ability may be taken more than once, and each time it grants a doubling of the next two levels of spell slots. For instance, Wizardry III/IV requires Wizardry I/II and doubles all 3rd and 4th level slots.
Special: This ability stacks with Rings of Wizardry, but the ability would triple, not quadruple the effect. Thus Wizardry I/II with a Ring of Wizardry I would triple the number of spell slots available to the Caster for level 1 spells, and level 2 spell slots would be doubled per the normal ability.
Spell Battery
Through resting your mind, you are able to prepare more spells than normal if you have not recently studied to your full potential.
Effect: Each day one spell slot may be left unprepared. If that slot is never utilized/prepared during a day, this slot can be placed into a mental "battery." This battery can be filled by no more than one slot of each spell level. For spontaneous casters, all slots of the same level must be untouched for an entire day before a slot can be "stored" in this fashion. If the caster rests for 15 minutes, they may pull slots out of this "battery" and prepare new spells or add these slots back into the daily allotment as if preparing new spells as normal.
Note that this ability could never allow a caster to store 1 spell slot for each spell level accessible, and the ability can not be used to exceed the normal daily allotment of spells. For instance, a wizard with 3 1st level slots and 2 2nd level slots could go a day without using 1 spell slot of each level and store them in his "battery." The next day, after a violent fight and expending all of his spells, he could spend 15 minutes and recover 1 spell slot of each level and prepare new spells in those slots. If he had all 2 of his 2nd level spells remaining for the day, he could not prepare a third 2nd level spell until he had cast/released at least one second level spell.
Trickster
Mythic Sneak Attack (Ex)
Any time the character would gain the benefit of sneak attack, the character instead rolls 2d20 and picks the best roll as the attack roll. This effect does not extend to confirming critical hits.
Editor's note: This will help rogues overcome the large issue of hitting extremely high ACs at higher levels and compete with fighters in this regard.
Mythic Stealth (Ex)
You can stealth behind anything larger than you, even while being observed.
X-Ray Vision (Ex)
You can see into and through solid matter. Vision range is 20 feet, with the viewer seeing as if he were looking at something in normal light even if there is no illumination. X-ray vision can penetrate 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, or up to 3 feet of wood or dirt. Thicker substances or a thin sheet of lead blocks the vision.
Freedom of Movement (Ex)
The trickster cannot be hindered, grappled or bound as if continually under the effect of a freedom of movement spell.
Water Walking (Ex)
You can defy the laws of physics and walk on, into, or through water at will. You can climb up and/or down water as if there were stairs, and water does not impede your motion in any way unless you allow it to.
Champion Abilities
Mythic Parry
Requirements: Dex 15
At +1BAB, you receive a single d6 in parrying ability per turn. When hit, as an immediate action, you may roll d6 and reduce the damage incurred by the die rolled before applying to DR. If this ability reduces damage to zero, the attack is treated as a miss. At +6 BAB, you receive another d6 per turn, and can then roll 2d6 once per round as a parry or two separate d6s to parry two separate attacks. At +11 and +16 BAB, another d6 is gained, to a maximum of d6. A weapon or shield must be in hand to use this ability.
Mythic Fencing
Requirements: Dex 17
As an immediate action, an attack that lands can be dodged as you spin around the attack. The attack is treated like a miss, but you give up your standard action on your next turn. You must have a weapon or shield in hand to use this ability.
Mythic Riposte
Requirements: Dex 19
If you are hit in melee, as a reaction you may strike once against the attacker at your full BAB. You must have a weapon or shield in hand to use this ability.
Overload
Any time you use the charge action, if your attack hits, then you may immediately attempt a bull rush action to any adjacent opponents at +20 to your die roll without incurring an opportunity attack. You remain in place and do not follow your opponents.
Saber Throw
You may throw any melee weapon as a ranged attack with a 50' ranged increment using strength instead of dexterity to attack. The weapon will boomerang back to you at the end of your turn and you may catch it as a free action.
Mythic Wounding
Every hit you make deals 1 point of bleed damage, which stacks. Bleeding creatures take the bleed damage at the start of their turns. Mythic Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 25 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage. A critical hit does not multiply the bleed damage. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to the bleed damage.
Warden
Mythic Swimming
You gain a swim speed of 30 and a +20 to all swim skill checks.
Hindering Shot
Each time you hit with a ranged attack, you incur a 5' movement penalty to the creature hit with the ranged attack. This penalty stacks until the movement rate is reduced to zero. Each 5' movement penalty can be removed with a swift, move, or standard action. Alternatively, the entire movement penalty can be removed by using a full-round action.
Obviously there could be a lot more, but here is my first stab!
I want Mythic Stealth. Like invisibility or HiPS, but better. Not magical, no special conditions, just that good.Heheh ... it can be amusing. We've got a Ranger/Scout whose Hide (this is 3.5e) is up at around +80, well above what most of the other PCs are even capable of seeing except for the druid, who's kicking with a Spot of something like +90. It's a bit of a running joke at our Friday night games.
lol That's awesome.
What makes it even more funny is even with the Faerie Fire cast on the Ranger/Scout, everyone will probably still not even see him. Well, everyone except the Druid, of course.
The worst part are the monsters can not see him either, despite some friendly persons attempt to assist them, but guess who they can see... sheesh.
Remember, Archmage should be good not just for wizards, but for all mythic characters that emphasise spellcasting. Clerics, sorcerers, oracles, witches and maybe even partial casters. There are only so many mythic classes, so it would be a shame if any one of them were relevant only to a class or two.
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I want the archmage to be useful even to a fighter.
Remember, Archmage should be good not just for wizards, but for all mythic characters that emphasise spellcasting. Clerics, sorcerers, oracles, witches and maybe even partial casters. There are only so many mythic classes, so it would be a shame if any one of them were relevant only to a class or two.
I think oracle might fit under the hierophant archetype, but yeah, I feel what you are saying.
A Mythic Wish, like when Wanda Scarlet Witch proclaim "No More Mutants", I can imagine a Wizard 20/ Archmage 10 using Mythic Wish, "No More Magic" as a campaign plot.
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A Mythic Wish, like when Wanda Scarlet Witch proclaim "No More Mutants", I can imagine a Wizard 20/ Archmage 10 using Mythic Wish, "No More Magic" as a campaign plot.
Might work just the same, too. 99% of the magic in the world goes away...but that 1% that remains seems to be solely concentrated around the adventures of the group.
:P
In honour of Neil Armstrong:
A mythic ship that can fly to the moon.
Or... you know.. you could teleport...
Or... you know.. you could teleport...In honour of Neil Armstrong:
A mythic ship that can fly to the moon.
Somehow, I don't think ease of travel was the point.
Oh I know, but a Mythic Spaceship would only be a viable Mythic possibility (in my mind) if a person could achieve it before a Wizard could use Interplanetary Teleport (which I think is a dumb spell as Greater Teleport already has a limitless range). The only real advantage IT has over GT is that with IT, you don't have to know where you're going beyond a general description.
Oh I know, but a Mythic Spaceship would only be a viable Mythic possibility (in my mind) if a person could achieve it before a Wizard could use Interplanetary Teleport (which I think is a dumb spell as Greater Teleport already has a limitless range). The only real advantage IT has over GT is that with IT, you don't have to know where you're going beyond a general description.
Hmmm, well I think a ship has major advantages as a base of operations and in allowing you to chose your approach rather than just being dropped into the deep brown stuff by a teleport. But then I have been accussed of being a bit paranoid :)
By the time a Wizard has Greater Teleport,a 7th level spell), he also has access to Lesser Create Demiplane, which is also a 7th level spell. So instead of landing a spaceship (which is totally worth the building, just to see the faces of the savages as they fall and worship you as a God), you could, instead, create your own Planar Sanctuary and be completely untouchable by the peasants and savages you interact with.
Like I mentioned before though. The faces of the savages as you descend from the Heavens? Totally worth the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of GP required to build.
[Edit] And now to poke the Religious. A wizard of 15th level could cast Create Demiplane (instead of the lesser one) to create a bountiful paradise and move all kinds of creatures and plants there (by enlarging the plane for more room).
Then he calls the place Eden and brings people tells them only those who worship him may enter after they die. After that, he teleports back to Golarion and laughs, Scrying every once in awhile, and intervening to put the Fear of God back into their hearts.
All right, Bash away.
I think mythic space travel should involve interstellar flight through the dark tapestry. There are low level/low owner ways to get to the various planets in golarion's solar system.
Doing the same thing as ordinary heroes only easier should be a perk of "being mythic" but not a focus, in my view.
I think mythic demiplane creation rules would be interesting or at least rules for magic that expand the effects that could be applied to the create demiplane spells.
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Though in fairness to Donaldson, Covenant is intended as an unsympathetic character.
And in fairness to Covenant, although he is thoroughly screwed up, he already believes that he must be dreaming before he realizes that his leprosy, the defining thing in his life, is gone. He's not really raping Lena because he can't. He's not capable of it. Not only doesn't he believe the Land is real, he doesn't dare believe it's real, because that's the kind of fantasy that leads lepers to not exercise the kind of caution they need to survive.*
Nor is the rape ignored. As Covenant comes to accept the Land more and more it becomes one more thing to beat himself up with.He's an unsympathetic viewpoint character. He's unsympathetic partly because we're seeing him through his own eyes and he is full of self-loathing. He really does grow and become a much better person throughout the series, almost a redemptive figure by the end. He's willing to struggle and sacrifice himself to save this world that he still doesn't really believe in. And yet we're still set up to loathe him.
There's also some really nice writing in the books, particularly in the parts that focus less on Covenant himself. And some wonderful touches in the Land. The giants, as mentioned above. The Bloodguard.
Mostly though it was unrelenting depression and self-loathing.
Donaldson has a thing seriously messed up characters. If you didn't like Covenant, don't read his SF series.
*I'm not at all sure how close Donaldson's leprosy is to the real disease. I've read some suggestions that he got a lot wrong. But that's how it works in Covenant's world. Or how he thinks it does, anyway.
Without a doubt, the Thomas Covenant series is my fave fantasy series of all time. Not always easy to read, and often you find yourself screaming at him to just BELIEVE in something, anything.
But a great read if you like REAL characters, and can handle the dark subject matter.
I think mythic demiplane creation rules would be interesting or at least rules for magic that expand the effects that could be applied to the create demiplane spells.
It may be a bit much for even a wizard 20/archmage 10, but being able to create a full plane (infinite size, permanent, undispellable without equally mythic dispels) would be a cool late-game ability.
[Edit] And now to poke the Religious. A wizard of 15th level could cast Create Demiplane (instead of the lesser one) to create a bountiful paradise and move all kinds of creatures and plants there (by enlarging the plane for more room).Then he calls the place Eden and brings people tells them only those who worship him may enter after they die. After that, he teleports back to Golarion and laughs, Scrying every once in awhile, and intervening to put the Fear of God back into their hearts.
All right, Bash away.
Golarion already has a fake deity as I recall. Razmir (? spelling) iirc. I'm not sure of his level etc. but it sounds like a good trick for someone like him. I run a homebrew campaign, so my Knowledge: Golarion skill isn't maxed :)