May contain second darkness spoilers
Running Second darkness adventure path the adventure hook lament for emerald rains.
Now I'm dm of a game where two of my player an arcane trickster and a gunslinger headed off too the coliseum at night time leaving the other two player sleeping and who had no interest of following them.
Now because it night they will have the possibility of running into a grey render and its bonded will-o-wisp which is a CR 9 that appears at night.
While my two players on their own would be an ECL 6 if that and in my mind would be suicide.
My ideas are They die, NPC come too save the day, encounter is moved or removed and they get side tracked.
Monsters http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/collaborators/fan-bestiary/dead-bestiary-pos tings/grey-render
You should probably post this in the Second Darkness AP forum for advice specific to the scenario without people having to spoiler-tag everything.
Hey man. Just a little advice. I wouldn't 'punish'* players for splitting the party. I've always felt that it was weird for a group of four or five people to always be around each other, every second of the day. Sometimes you wanna scout, or just investigate something on your own or with a buddy.
That said, I'd say let them sneak a peek at the Grey Render and the Will o' Wisp so they are rewarded for their scouting efforts. However, make it clear to the two of them that this creature is probably too much for them to handle. I find that when you get into detail about describing it, or have it do some threatening action that foreshadows the pain they are going to receive by trying to go after it, most players get the hint that perhaps they should run and live to fight another day. That way they can at least relay the information to the other party members so they know what to avoid or what they are up against.
* By punish, I don't mean that you are actively trying to be mean to your players. It's simply how some PCs may see such actions after multiple times.
Sounds good but I know my players and on multiple occasions have watched them try too take on more then then can handle.
It makes me a bit worried too give them the option too scout when if they decided to fight it will just end up with two players dead,
What Joana said.
It's good to post spoiler notices at the head of a thread that includes adventure specific details. Some people prefer not to know.
I'd play the encounter out just like the whole party had gone. Presumably the trickster and gunslinger will be stealthing. Like Odraude said, have a pretty good description of a hulking grey humanoid half again the height of a man ripping the dying body of a dark elf into pieces while surrounded by a nimbus of multi-colored light. Roll perception for the will o' wisp and render against T&G's stealth. (Remember the range penalties for perception.)
Let the chips fall where they may.
On another note, are the sleeping PCs in a secure camp with someone else to guard them?
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Sounds good but I know my players and on multiple occasions have watched them try too take on more then then can handle.
It makes me a bit worried too give them the option too scout when if they decided to fight it will just end up with two players dead,
I would do what Odraude suggested and if they decided to attack it. Play out the battle, maybe they will wise up and try and run. Maybe even escaping. If not you have two dead characters on your hands. Though i am not sure you should make the players dead if they decided to fight it, losing their characters should be lesson enough. :)
For big critters like the Grey Render, I like to use Awesome Blow (the feat from Bestiary 1-3) and have it do a great deal of damage and knock people away. You'd be surprised how just by simply smashing someone away from you or flinging them, it really drives home the fear. Also, due to it's blind rage, I'd have it waste an attack smashing the ground so it doesn't full round attack one person.
Of course, if your players really truly do not get the hint... sometimes it just takes the GM saying "Are you sure you want to do that?" I've had to pull that out to people that aren't used to my GM style (No Mercy) and 9 times out of 10 it works.
I'm new with all the options on boards like this so I have no idea how too change boards
Well my worries in holding back is that if i give them about three rounds they can easily win the combat if I'm just throwing them around.
Which is all right I guess but then what does it say about the next time they split up.
Well my worries in holding back is that if i give them about three rounds they can easily win the combat if I'm just throwing them around.
Which is all right I guess but then what does it say about the next time they split up.
Well holding back doesn't have to mean making it easy. You basically want to lay down enough damage in one or two blows to make them realize that they are outclassed without killing them outright. Using the same example, I'd probably have the Grey Render Power Attack when it uses it's Awesome Blow. Or, you could slam them with a Power Attack, use the Grab ability on one, then next turn pile-drive that grabbed person into the ground. Or Bull Rush one of them into the wall. Hell, even getting a Rend off can make the most foolhardy player's butt squelch. Make sure to go into detail what it does or how it reacts. Like, maybe when they hit it, you can say "The creature appears unfazed by the sword striking it's hide. It's bloodshot eyes fixate on you as it's massive fists pile-drive into you. What's your AC?" You want to describe in excruciating detail that this thing is going to wreck their day badly.
Of course in the end, sometimes players prove the old saying that fools will always die young... And at that point they can't blame anyone but themselves.
yeah but i have the feeling i will be writing up two new characters since they already beaten up from attacking a roost of harpies.
Just decided too add this is going too be a players have too attack first fight.
Well first off this is an adventure path and It has monsters which the group I'm talking about have defeated.
Now what I'm dealing with is there is a group of monsters which I consider one of the hardest fight in the book in their route.
Now what am I going to do with this group of monsters is the question.
I'm in the camp that says that they should be allowed to engage the render if they so choose, and get their asses handed to them if they don't get the hint. Give them a means of escape, and give them hints that they may be in over their heads, but otherwise, I find that it's generally a bad idea to hold the players' hands too much. Near-death scrapes and character deaths are things that cause players to re-evaluate their strategies and playing styles. They help the players to grow as players.
By the way this is not they split up now they going too die because of it.
This is a they split up and now they going to fight a very powerful creature because its in their way discussion.
If they had stayed in a group this would have been a hard fight but now they have split the party and are still going too fight the same creature.
Not every CR9 is going to stomp a party of two guys. I've run these APs unaltered for parties of two PCs for the past year. If two guys can survive Carrion Crown unaltered with no character deaths (and no pulled punches from the GM) then two guys can take a gray render and a will o' wisp. The key is tactics.
If your players aren't idiots they'll be fine. It'll be tough and luck will be involved but let them go for it. If they run away don't penalize them for it. Running away and coming back later when it's more strategic is always a valid tactic.
And don't immediately dismiss creative solutions.
Just Don't Stand There(TM). Intelligence isn't just for wizards anymore.
I think if you pull too many punches they will just learn that it's ok to split up and they will do it more often. It can get kind of difficult to run the game when the party splits up a lot.
If you let the dice fall where they may, you aren't really punishing them.
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Let the dice fall where they lie.
If the PCs take on something too strong for them, then so be it. Ive done that a few times in the past, a couple of PCs want to explore this room while the party wants to move on. INside this room is a ECL that equals the total party, not the 2 PCs. The pcs always have the ability to run away, but some learn while they make a new PC.
I'll second Rizzenmagnus. If they're cautious in their approach, they might see the monsters before the monsters see them. If they turn that into an advantage, heading back to the rest of the group and working out a tactical plan, good for them. If they decide to turn it into a chance for a surprise round at the start of a combat which will (most likely) quickly end with the two PCs becoming monster food, so be it.
It's one thing to be a reasonable GM and give your players every opportunity to have fun. It's another to treat them with kid gloves. Players don't become better players without allowing them to make their own mistakes.
Make sure you give them plenty of chances to back out and disengage once the fight starts, otherwise let the dice fall where they may; if you really feel like being merciful you can have the grey render toss them somewhere to eat later, and let the other PCs rescue them(or try)