Zombie horde

[doc the grey]

Does anyone know where I can find some rules on building a swarm of human zombies or if one exists somewhere?

[Haladir]

You can't really make a swarm of zombies, as swarm rules require the individual creatures that make up the swarm to be size Tiny or smaller.

If I wanted to make my PCs face a horde of zombies (like in The Walking Dead), I'd just use a LOT of individual normal zombies.

If I wanted to get fancy, I'd create a new variant zombie type, the "Horde Zombie." Stats would be the same as a regular zombie with the following additions:

Defensive abilities: Horde zombies do not gain DR 5/slashing.

Special Abilities:
Reach Through Horde (Ex) A horde zombie can reach through a square that's occupied by another undead creature to attack an opponent that would otherwise be out of reach. Treat this as having Reach of 10 feet, but only through squares that are occupied by other undead creatures.

Oh, and you'd never meet fewer than a dozen of them at a time!

[LearnTheRules]

You could try using the Kingmaker mass-combat rules, they're in the fifth book of the AP IIRC.

[moon glum]

An easy way to do it would be to take whatever zombie you are interested in making into a hoard, and give them the swarming racial trait. (see rat folk for the swarming trait). Remember to have the zombies use the aid another action and grapple.

[EvilMinion]

The dnd3.5 adventure path, Shackled City, had some rules for mobs... which were basically like swarms, with larger critters.
Don't recall whether they were good rules or not =)

[doc the grey]

LearnTheRules wrote:

You could try using the Kingmaker mass-combat rules, they're in the fifth book of the AP IIRC.

This was kind of what I figured but can that work outside of mass combat like against a group of pc's? I'm kind of interested in using it in conjuction with some wandering single ones and a hydrodaemon that have risen beneath this hanging swamp village my players are in and need to figure out if I can use it for that.

[Ciaran Barnes]

Make it a huge creature with 5 ft reach and capable of entering your square (and its bad when that happens). When it dies it splits into four regular zombies.

[ibayboy]

I know its 3.5, but the DMG2 had rules for mobs, if you have access to that book you could adapt for Pathfinder.

[Rakshaka]

Second that. Also, PF needs rules for Mobs. 3.5 had it, and while the CR scale wasn't really fair when applied to the template (like a horde of Shadows or Allips), it was a step in the right direction. DMG2 might be the closest you get to what it sounds like you're wanting. Hey, PF designers! How about some rules for mobs???

[LearnTheRules]

doc the grey wrote:

LearnTheRules wrote:

You could try using the Kingmaker mass-combat rules, they're in the fifth book of the AP IIRC.

This was kind of what I figured but can that work outside of mass combat like against a group of pc's? I'm kind of interested in using it in conjuction with some wandering single ones and a hydrodaemon that have risen beneath this hanging swamp village my players are in and need to figure out if I can use it for that.

Hmm not really, I think the rules state that it's meant for unit vs unit combat. You could however just make a single creature (somewhat like a swarm) that can attack all adjacent units and has the hp of a zombie multiplied either by the actual amount of zombies or for every set number of zombies, e.g. a horde of 30 human zombies might have 360 hp (12 for each one zombie) or 120 (12 for every 3 zombies). It's a little primitive tbh but it's probably better than using the kingmaker rules.

The other alternative is to have the pcs face a replenishing wave in single (normal) combat, e.g one or two zombies for each pc, after every 3 rounds d6 more appear or something along those lines.

[doc the grey]

Hmm I was thinking on taking the zombie type i wanted and adding the swarm subtype to it, multiplying the hd by maybe 20, and giving it some ability to pull targets into it's squares so that it can feast a la walking dead or most zombie films. I think something like this...

Apocalypse Zombie swarm
Apocalypse Zombie CR 10

XP 9,600
Relentless brain-eating plague human zombie
NE Gargantuan undead swarm
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft., scent; Perception +0
DEFENSE

AC 16, touch 9, flat-footed 13 (+3 Dex, +7 natural, -4 size)
hp 137 (25d8+25)
Fort +8, Ref +11, Will +14
Defensive abilities: swarm traits Immune undead traits
OFFENSE

Speed 40 ft., climb 20 ft.
Melee: swarm (5d6 plus disease)
Space: 20ft Reach: 0ft
Special Attacks brain-eating, create spawn, death burst, distraction (DC 22), quick strikes
STATISTICS

Str 20, Dex 17, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +18; CMB ; CMD
Feats ToughnessB
Skills Climb +11, Survival +0 (+4 to track by smell)
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Brain-Eating (Ex)

After killing an opponent, the zombie’s ravenous nature takes hold and it uses its next turn to break open its victim’s skull and eat the brain. This prevents others from raising the body from the dead by any method that requires an intact corpse.
Create Spawn (Su)

Anyone killed after being bitten by an apocalypse zombie rises as an apocalypse zombie 2d6 hours later unless the corpse is blessed or similar measures are taken.
Death Burst (Ex)

When an apocalypse zombie dies, it explodes in a burst of decay. All creatures adjacent to the apocalypse zombie are exposed to its plague as if struck by a slam attack and must make a Fortitude save or contract zombie rot.
Disease (Su)

The zombie’s natural attacks carry the zombie rot disease.

Zombie Rot: Bite or slam—injury; save Fort DC 22; onset 1d4 days; frequency 1/day; effect 1d2 Con, this damage cannot be healed while the creature is infected; cure 2 consecutive saves.

Anyone who dies while infected rises as an apocalypse zombie in 2d6 hours.

Break Off: at any point during it's turn a zombie swarm may lose a single zombie from it's horde, this zombie seperates from the horde losing it's swarm traits and in all ways acts like a normal zombie of the associated type of the swarm. A zombie swarm loses 1 HD and 5 max hp per zombie that breaks off from the pack until it rejoins the pack. When the swarm is reduced to 0 hit points it leaves behind 1d3 zombies that survived the swarms destruction.

Environment any
Organization solitary, pair, or pack (3–12)
Treasure none

So what do you think?

[HaraldKlak]

doc the grey wrote:

So what do you think?

I think this holds a lot of potential. A few questions/suggestion though:

A) How does being inside the swarm affect movement? The swarm should at least count as difficult terrain. But even difficult terrain doesn't quite seem like enough for being inside a horde of zombies. Treating the whole thing as the Web spell might work: A roll to avoid being grappled if you try to move (acrobatics, cmb, escape artist), cmb or escape artist to avoid the grapple; difficult terrain.

B) Shouldn't they be able to make attacks of opportunity, unlike normal swarms? I think they should. Distraction isn't really enough to signify casting spells inside a horde of zombies.

[doc the grey]

HaraldKlak wrote:

doc the grey wrote:

So what do you think?

I think this holds a lot of potential. A few questions/suggestion though:

A) How does being inside the swarm affect movement? The swarm should at least count as difficult terrain. But even difficult terrain doesn't quite seem like enough for being inside a horde of zombies. Treating the whole thing as the Web spell might work: A roll to avoid being grappled if you try to move (acrobatics, cmb, escape artist), cmb or escape artist to avoid the grapple; difficult terrain.

B) Shouldn't they be able to make attacks of opportunity, unlike normal swarms? I think they should. Distraction isn't really enough to signify casting spells inside a horde of zombies.

Originally I had it having the grab ability like the apocalypse zombie it's modeled after but felt that was a little off with the rules as is. My current running idea is giving it a free grab AoO whenever someone provokes it allow it to pull it's target into it's square. The other option is that it can use the pull combat maneuver to yank enemies into it's bulk which triggers it's distraction ability. Finally I may want to treat all of the swarms squares as difficult terrain for the purposes of getting out and passing through.