What kind of action is triggering a Symbol?


Rules Questions


Let's say Bob the Fighter has a Symbol of Healing cast on the back of his cloak, triggered to go off when someone reads it. Assuming this qualifies as ¨placed in plain sight and in a prominent location¨, what kind of action would it be for a fellow party member, hiding behind Bob, to trigger the Symbol?
Specifically, could PCs do it when it's not their turn?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Nice question, but since triggering a Symbol is something that the triggering character has to actively do (even by accident), then I'd say it's a free action.


As all the symbol spells refer to symbol of death, here is that description.

Quote:
As a default, a symbol of death is triggered whenever a creature does one or more of the following, as you select: looks at the rune; reads the rune; touches the rune; passes over the rune; or passes through a portal bearing the rune. Regardless of the trigger method or methods chosen, a creature more than 60 feet from a symbol of death can't trigger it (even if it meets one or more of the triggering conditions, such as reading the rune). Once the spell is cast, a symbol of death's triggering conditions cannot be changed.

Since you chose the trigger to be reading, which takes up the same time as talking, it would be a free action.

Liberty's Edge

PurpleShirt wrote:


Since you chose the trigger to be reading, which takes up the same time as talking, it would be a free action.

Source of "Reading take as much time as talking and is a free action"?

For most of us modern day, fully literate people it is true but even today a good percentage of the population of the developed countries is composed by semi-literate people.
In medieval times it was normal to read aloud from a book, people capable to read without verbalizing the text were an exception, not the norm.

If you chose to rule that way the cloak will be triggered the first time someone look at it. People with that kind of literacy read by reflex anything they see.

Edit: the above assume you mean that it is !a free action that can be done outside of turn, like speaking". If you mean that is a free action that can be done only during your turn I agree.


Placing the symbol out in the open will trigger it way before it is intended to, the symbol of healing is unusual in that it is a benevolent symbol (to most anyway). Reading is quite involuntary, you can not choose not to read a word/symbol you see. If you want to make it work you would have to resort to uncovering and displaying the symbol in some way, or otherwise have them touch it.

I'd judge it to be a move action on your part to retrieve and display the symbol, something what provokes attack of opportunity I think.


Diego Rossi wrote:
PurpleShirt wrote:


Since you chose the trigger to be reading, which takes up the same time as talking, it would be a free action.

Source of "Reading take as much time as talking and is a free action"?

For most of us modern day, fully literate people it is true but even today a good percentage of the population of the developed countries is composed by semi-literate people.
In medieval times it was normal to read aloud from a book, people capable to read without verbalizing the text were an exception, not the norm.

If you chose to rule that way the cloak will be triggered the first time someone look at it. People with that kind of literacy read by reflex anything they see.

Edit: the above assume you mean that it is !a free action that can be done outside of turn, like speaking". If you mean that is a free action that can be done only during your turn I agree.

As it is a free action you can only do it on your turn. The only actions that can be done on another turn are immediate actions.

AnnoyingOrange wrote:

Placing the symbol out in the open will trigger it way before it is intended to, the symbol of healing is unusual in that it is a benevolent symbol (to most anyway). Reading is quite involuntary, you can not choose not to read a word/symbol you see. If you want to make it work you would have to resort to uncovering and displaying the symbol in some way, or otherwise have them touch it.

I'd judge it to be a move action on your part to retrieve and display the symbol, something what provokes attack of opportunity I think.

If reading were involuntary, there would not need to be a separate choice from looking at it. As far as I would rule it in my games, to count as reading you would have to look at it, see the symbols that make the words, and understand the meaning of whatever words are there.

Liberty's Edge

Speaking is a free action that can be done out of turn. As you were referencing talking I was supposing you meant that reading had the same rule exception.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
PurpleShirt wrote:


If reading were involuntary, there would not need to be a separate choice from looking at it. As far as I would rule it in my games, to count as reading you would have to look at it, see the symbols that make the words, and understand the meaning of whatever words are there.

You would need to know the language it was written in as well. If you don't know the language its just a collection of symbols that may or may not be a word.

Diego Rossi wrote:


In medieval times it was normal to read aloud from a book, people capable to read without verbalizing the text were an exception, not the norm.

I think the assumed setting is Golarion, or a generic D&D 3.x setting in which anyone who can speak a language can read it unless he has the illiterate ability from somewhere.


PurpleShirt wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
PurpleShirt wrote:


Since you chose the trigger to be reading, which takes up the same time as talking, it would be a free action.

Source of "Reading take as much time as talking and is a free action"?

For most of us modern day, fully literate people it is true but even today a good percentage of the population of the developed countries is composed by semi-literate people.
In medieval times it was normal to read aloud from a book, people capable to read without verbalizing the text were an exception, not the norm.

If you chose to rule that way the cloak will be triggered the first time someone look at it. People with that kind of literacy read by reflex anything they see.

Edit: the above assume you mean that it is !a free action that can be done outside of turn, like speaking". If you mean that is a free action that can be done only during your turn I agree.

As it is a free action you can only do it on your turn. The only actions that can be done on another turn are immediate actions.

AnnoyingOrange wrote:

Placing the symbol out in the open will trigger it way before it is intended to, the symbol of healing is unusual in that it is a benevolent symbol (to most anyway). Reading is quite involuntary, you can not choose not to read a word/symbol you see. If you want to make it work you would have to resort to uncovering and displaying the symbol in some way, or otherwise have them touch it.

I'd judge it to be a move action on your part to retrieve and display the symbol, something what provokes attack of opportunity I think.

If reading were involuntary, there would not need to be a separate choice from looking at it. As far as I would rule it in my games, to count as reading you would have to look at it, see the symbols that make the words, and understand the meaning of whatever words are there.

Reading implies comprehension to me, non-intelligent or animal intelligence creatures wouldnt trigger it for example.


CRB p355 wrote:

As a default, a symbol of death is triggered whenever a creature does one or more of the following, as you select: looks at the rune; reads the rune; touches the rune; passes over the rune; or passes through a portal bearing the rune. Regardless of the trigger method or methods chosen, a creature more than 60 feet from a symbol of death can’t trigger it (even if it meets one or more of the triggering conditions, such as reading the rune). Once the spell is cast, a symbol of death’s triggering conditions cannot be changed.

In this case, “reading” the rune means any attempt to study it, identify it, or fathom its meaning.

I would say reading is not an incidental amount of reading. Standard action to attempt to 'study it'.

- Gauss


Gauss wrote:
I would say reading is not an incidental amount of reading. Standard action to attempt to 'study it'.

Yes, I suppose studying, identifying and fathoming are "proper" actions, and a Symbol triggered to go off merely when seen is an accident waiting to happen. Which is probably for the best - if Bob had three Symbols of Death on his back and the rest of the party triggers them simultaneously, "going nova" gets a whole new meaning...


VRMH: I should add that to intentionally trigger a symbol one only needs to destroy it. Symbol on a peice of paper torn in half will do it. That may qualify as a move action.

CRB p356 wrote:
Destruction of the surface where a symbol of death is inscribed destroys the symbol but also triggers it.

- Gauss

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