One of my players, a "pirate" twf rogue/fighter is preparing to mutiny and attack another player in his cabin by swining down through his window and attacking the other player in his sleep. The other player, a bladebound kensai Magus, stiffed him some pay, promising to pay him later and the pirates decided to cut out the middle man and get his cash.
Now mechancically, I'm at a loss how to handle this encounter. The pirate wants to make this a sudden attack to catch him off guard and kill him with his sneak attack damage, but the real question is it even possible to get this all in a single turn?
I mean it's a move at least to swing down to his window from a higher level and probably a climb check. Then there is the potential damage that could result from swinging through a window. Then there is the fact that he should have to make an acrobatics check or something to mantain his balance and "stick the landing". Then he's gotta at least have a standard left to attack all before the Magus/Blackblade gets a perception to wake up(Cause he can smoke him if he's up and about).
So my question is, do you think that this all can be accomplished in a single turn? Or is there some variation of a charge or other special action that accomplishes this much more simply?
Also I think it's worth mentioning that both players were aware that pvp could occur in this game, so no worries on that end. And don't ask me why he won't simply just sneak in lol.
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Turn 1: Rogue takes a running leap to swing off the back of the ship, Acrobatics DC 15 to clear the railing/get enough distance for the swing. (Move) Failure means the PC trips on the rail and falls into the sea.
Rogue then needs to aim for the window. I'd rule this a Climb check with a DC of 20. Take 10 isn't possible (because swinging wildly through the air counts as "stress or distractions". Failure means the PC loses his grip and falls into the sea. Success means he smashes through the window. Deal 1d6 slashing damage to the PC, and they make a DC 15 Acrobatics check to land on his feet.
Turn 2: Magus gets a perception Check DC is 0 (base DC 0, -10 equivalent to "sounds of battle", +10 magus is asleep."). If he passes the check he is awake, roll initiative. If he fails, he is still sleeping. Rogue can coup de grace.
This is simultaneously the most awesome and stupid plan I've ever seen.
Won't the window shatter and cause quite a bit of noise?
Why doesn't the rogue just stealth through the front door, and gut the magus in his sleep? IT seems like it would be quieter, and therefore more likely to succeed.
Basically, his surprise round would be wasted on the swing. Unless the Magus has a negative on perception, there's no possible way he can fail the check. Your Pirate player's only hope is winning initiative. Like was posted previously, either have him sneak in through the door, or figure out a better way of getting through the window.
Ruleswise I agree with Dudemeister, but maybe let the final acrobatics check decide if he takes the slashing damage. The climb check could also be an acrobatics check. if that is easier for the rogue
I would somehow try to give him an advantage due to the sheer awesomeness of the plan - perhaps giving the magus a penalty on initiative on the first turn due to the sudden awekening, him getting tangled in his blanket and such.
I would say that the surprise round starts after the swing through the window. I would, however, force a stealth vs. perception opposed roll to see if the sleeper perceives the movement before crashing through the window, with appropriate penalties for being asleep, distance, and an intervening wall.
Its sounds like an interesting plan, but everyone things it is easy to smash thru a window till they try in real life!
if he doesn't make the break DC for the window (give small bonus for momentum) he will just spat up against it, making enough noise to possibly wake up the magus.
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I'm leery of in-party attempts to kill, but it's definitely a Pirate sort of thing to happen. In the best of possible worlds, the attempt to kill would fail, but still give the magus a good wake-up call that badly sharing treasure with pirates is an unhealthy habit. Maybe the combat gets interrupted after two rounds, by a mutual (horrible) enemy that the entire party needs to fight off together. Maybe the boat suddenly bumps into a giant squid or something, knocking both combatants off their feet, and making them go "What was THAT?!"
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So, rules/rulings. This is what I'd say. Note that I'm taking big liberties with the rules here in order to make this work somewhat fairly. Make an Acrobatics check DC 15 to swing in. Any point above the 15 is a bonus to the Initiative roll. The magus rolls Reflex DC 10 to avoid Surprise. Then there's a Surprise roll. After that, ordinary combat.
These DCs are completely arbitrary, and I'm not ashamed of that. The pirate should have a chance to surprise the magus, but it shouldn't be a sure thing. He definitely deserves to win Initiative, and the bonus from swinging in should do that. The surprise check is Reflex to wake up quickly; there's no doubt that he wakes up from all the noise and breaking glass.
It's very likely the pirate will get one hit in while the magus is Flat-Footed (before his first turn in combat). There's a chance of doing it twice (in the surprise round and the first combat round, if the magus is surprised and the pirate wins initiative). With sneak attacks that's scary for the magus. However, he doesn't get a Coup de Grace, because the magus isn't helpless. If he wanted that he should have sneaked in with Stealth.
Keep in mind fairness to the victim here while you are adjudicating awesomeness on the part of the assassin. This isn't some NPC but rather some other guy's player.
While we've all see movies of guys swinging through windows with guns blazing to stunned crowds too daft to fight back- that really isn't the D&D world.
dude climbs down the rope and jacks with the window.
Victim gets a perception check with +10 DC for being asleep (assuming he is, in fact, asleep.)
Now pretty much however you slice it, getting in that window isn't going to allow him to attack in that round also. Why? Because quite frankly it just shouldn't.
Now how I would adjucate it?
1) Assassin climbs down and is in front of window. victim gets pretty tough perception check (unless he's awake, then the shadow at the window is alot more obvious).
2) assassin has to figure out a way in the window. This is pretty much his surprise round going on here. Now if he's smart and picks the window somehow and can get *inside* without waking up the victim. Keep in mind that getting in the window and getting into the room would be two separate events for perception checks by the victim.
3) Now if and when victim wakes up, there could be some interesting things going on.
if he wakes up while Dude is outside the window, he stands to gain surprise when Dude comes charging in.
If he wakes up after dude is inside then its inits for both parties to see who's flat footed and who isn't. (under the theory that climbing/crashing in through a window wouldn't have you prepared for combat).
of course, if Dude literally comes crashing in he gives up surprise, nigh automatically wakes up Victim and probably guarantees getting hit before he can get his act together.
CdG:
I really dislike a CdG in this situation and I'd probably warn the PC ahead of time that if he does it, he's not lookin at a bright future in this game. You want to attack someone- well I'd ban that anyway but assuming I didn't ban it- attacking someone to get a point across isn't the same as killing another player's PC and attempting to CdG is jut exactly that.
Would I say "you can't CdG"? No, but I'd make the player aware that if he's gonna act like that, the gloves are coming off behind the screen too.
But really, for that matter, the other guy shouldn't have been allowed to rob from him anyway. Its what really lead to this happening in the first place. But- thats your campaign.. if it works for you all and you all are having fun, then keep up the fun :) I'm afraid though that unless you really have some mature players there that the house of cards is about to fall. No one likes being one-shotted with no chance of even rolling init, much less by some other player.
I mean seriously- think about it for a moment, if your DM next campaign said:
DM: you are dead
PC: Wtf?! What killed me
DM: You have no idea. You died in your sleep
PC: But, I have a perception check of +9 at level 2! and had a bell on the window!
DM: Sorry.
PC: .....
-S
Turn 1: Rogue takes a running leap to swing off the back of the ship, Acrobatics DC 15 to clear the railing/get enough distance for the swing. (Move) Failure means the PC trips on the rail and falls into the sea.
Rogue then needs to aim for the window. I'd rule this a Climb check with a DC of 20. Take 10 isn't possible (because swinging wildly through the air counts as "stress or distractions". Failure means the PC loses his grip and falls into the sea. Success means he smashes through the window. Deal 1d6 slashing damage to the PC, and they make a DC 15 Acrobatics check to land on his feet.Turn 2: Magus gets a perception Check DC is 0 (base DC 0, -10 equivalent to "sounds of battle", +10 magus is asleep."). If he passes the check he is awake, roll initiative. If he fails, he is still sleeping. Rogue can coup de grace.
This is simultaneously the most awesome and stupid plan I've ever seen.
This sounds how I’m probably going to do it.
However with regards to Round 2, the Bladebound Kensai Magus has his blade with him (he’s slept with it ever since a magistrate sent thieves to steal it 2 sessions ago). Since intelligent weapons never sleep, or at least there is no mention of it, doesn’t the sword get a roll to notice too at his full perception? This is an assumption being made by the pirate I think, and I’m not sure if it does or doesn’t.And I know right? XD
Why doesn't the rogue just stealth through the front door, and gut the magus in his sleep? IT seems like it would be quieter, and therefore more likely to succeed.
I already thought that myself. However, as I alluded to earlier, I think this is a wee bit of meta-gaming on the Pirates part since he knows about the Magus’s blade and assumes (whether or not it’s true) that the blade will wake him up if he fails even one stealth check.
I'm leery of in-party attempts to kill, but it's definitely a Pirate sort of thing to happen. In the best of possible worlds, the attempt to kill would fail, but still give the magus a good wake-up call that badly sharing treasure with pirates is an unhealthy habit. Maybe the combat gets interrupted after two rounds, by a mutual (horrible) enemy that the entire party needs to fight off together. Maybe the boat suddenly bumps into a giant squid or something, knocking both combatants off their feet, and making them go "What was THAT?!"
I’m planning something just like that… Unless the Pirate completely kills the Magus the first round. Or the Magus kills him in the second. Regardless, it is okay for in game story reasons that they fight so I don’t have a problem with it, and death is always a risk when fighting, even if it’s only for two rounds. I mean either one could crit…
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But really, for that matter, the other guy shouldn't have been allowed to rob from him anyway. Its what really lead to this happening in the first place. But- thats your campaign.. if it works for you all and you all are having fun, then keep up the fun :) I'm afraid though that unless you really have some mature players there that the house of cards is about to fall. No one likes being one-shotted with no chance of even rolling init, much less by some other player.
Firstly the Magus didn't really rob him, the pirates been pilfering more than his share of the loot the whole time, save for a pearl of power that he failed his appraisal on. It's more of a han solo-esque deal: when you get me to the death star and help me save the princess I'll pay you more money then you can imagine thing. Only it turned out the "princess was in another castle", so to speak, so he hasn't gotten paid yet, and has been instead offered more money for continued service when he feels he should be paid now.
I'm not worried about this actually. Not that my players are overtly mature, the pirate certainly isn't, but the Magus's player is my brother and the charater is sorta being groomed to become the BBEG at the end of the campaign so it's more of player ran NPC. Also, all the players were told at character creation that PvP would occur in game so everyone should be prepared for what may come.
I am trying to imagine what sort of porthole windows you have on your ship. Most portholes just are not that big. That big of a pane of glass on the side of a ship is a huge weakness in combat.
Aren't pirates all about rank and brotherhood? Seems it would be quite a loss to the ship to lose a good swordsman. I would think a challenge for dominance in the pack more fitting. Unless he dishonorable I suppose.
He's fighting over money that he hasn't even earned yet, I'd say he falls into the latter.
I am trying to imagine what sort of porthole windows you have on your ship. Most portholes just are not that big. That big of a pane of glass on the side of a ship is a huge weakness in combat.
You know I hadn't considered that, I just sorta imagined him in the captain's quarters or something when chances are he wouldn't be. Hmh, now that's some serious food for thought. Does that mean this task is impossible or does it simply raise the dc?
I would have a seriously high DC for anyone trying to swing through a porthole as small as portholes are. That is more of a swing to the porthole and then squeeze in thing.