Additional Resources Updates

[Devo]

Curses! I'm waiting for Ultimate Campaign to go up there. Are we expecting that it won't happen until 8/14?

[Dylos]

Maybe Ultimate Campaign will be a new core assumption in the 5.0 guide and as such won't need to be on the additional resources.

[SCPRedMage]

Dylos wrote:

Maybe Ultimate Campaign will be a new core assumption in the 5.0 guide and as such won't need to be on the additional resources.

Seeing as the stated reason for removing the Field Guide from the core assumption was to "reduce the buy-in" for the campaign, I highly doubt they're going to replace it with a more expensive book...

[bugleyman]

Dylos wrote:

Maybe Ultimate Campaign will be a new core assumption in the 5.0 guide and as such won't need to be on the additional resources.

Are we possibly confusing core assumption w/ legal additional resource? All the hardbacks are part of the GM core assumption, but not every item in Ultimate Equipment is legal for play. Or am I misunderstanding?

[Dylos]

bugleyman wrote:

Dylos wrote:

Maybe Ultimate Campaign will be a new core assumption in the 5.0 guide and as such won't need to be on the additional resources.

Are we possibly confusing core assumption w/ legal additional resource? All the hardbacks are part of the GM core assumption, but not every item in Ultimate Equipment is legal for play. Or am I misunderstanding?

Well I didn't explicitly say GM core assumption, plus the Core Rulebook is core assumption, but not everything in it is legal either.

I fully expect the new guide to mention Ultimate Campaign however.

SCPRedMage wrote:

Seeing as the stated reason for removing the Field Guide from the core assumption was to "reduce the buy-in" for the campaign, I highly doubt they're going to replace it with a more expensive book...

More expensive, yet less expensive at the same time. The PDF of Ultimate campaign is actually cheaper then the Field guide in any form.

[bugleyman]

Dylos wrote:

I fully expect the new guide to mention Ultimate Campaign however.

Most definitely.

[Chernobyl]

The new "Additional Resources Document" specifies that all content from the PFS Primer is legal for play (except some resonant ioun stone abilities).

The Monastery vanity (page 29) say "when using the retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign..."
Ultimate Campaign isn't an "Additional Resource" as yet though.

[SCPRedMage]

bugleyman wrote:

Dylos wrote:

I fully expect the new guide to mention Ultimate Campaign however.

Most definitely.

Agreed.

[Michael Brock]

Chernobyl wrote:

The new "Additional Resources Document" specifies that all content from the PFS Primer is legal for play (except some resonant ioun stone abilities).

The Monastery vanity (page 29) say "when using the retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign..."
Ultimate Campaign isn't an "Additional Resource" as yet though.

Retraining rules will be covered in Guide 5.0.

[Majuba]

Michael Brock wrote:

Retraining rules will be covered in Guide 5.0.

;(

[thistledown]

WTF? Go to Russia, fight a bunch of soldiers with rifles and machine guns, and there's not a single gun on the chronicle sheet? What the society takes them all and says "We're going to go study these. Yes, we need ALL of them. I don't care if you out-rank most venture captains. You can't have them."

That is just wrong. This was the perfect opportunity to let people try out advanced firearms, and you wasted it.

[Michael Brock]

thistledown wrote:

WTF? Go to Russia, fight a bunch of soldiers with rifles and machine guns, and there's not a single gun on the chronicle sheet? What the society takes them all and says "We're going to go study these. Yes, we need ALL of them. I don't care if you out-rank most venture captains. You can't have them."

That is just wrong. This was the perfect opportunity to let people try out advanced firearms, and you wasted it.

We didn't waste it. We don't want people trying out advanced firearms in PFS. If you want to try out advanced firearms, I suggest a home campaign.

[Iammars]

thistledown wrote:

WTF? Go to Russia, fight a bunch of soldiers with rifles and machine guns, and there's not a single gun on the chronicle sheet? What the society takes them all and says "We're going to go study these. Yes, we need ALL of them. I don't care if you out-rank most venture captains. You can't have them."

That is just wrong. This was the perfect opportunity to let people try out advanced firearms, and you wasted it.

Nope. Perfectly happy that there's no advanced firearms.

• Yeah, advanced firearms are a really big deal and have the potential to change the face of Golarion by themselves. Obviously the Decemvirate wants to study them all.
  
• It's really hard to get the ammunition for them.
  
• This is still in the level range where these characters might see play in a convention special at some point. It's really unfair for convention GMs to have to deal with advanced firearms in addition to all the other problems 13+ play has.
  
• There's been a trend to put all the items that get created for one adventure on the chronicle sheet so that players don't need to by the adventure to use what's on the chronicle sheet. There's no way you're fitting the advanced firearms rules onto that chronicle sheet.
  

[neferphras]

Michael is back Yeah!!!

perfectly happy with no advanced firearms, like gunslingers dont have enough advantages.

Michael, i posted a week ago about opening up the trick arrows from elves of golarian so bow users can have something to add flavor and perhaps stem the gunslinger tsunami. Is that being considered for an update?

[Michael Brock]

neferphras wrote:

Michael is back Yeah!!!

perfectly happy with no advanced firearms, like gunslingers dont have enough advantages.

Michael, i posted a week ago about opening up the trick arrows from elves of golarian so bow users can have something to add flavor and perhaps stem the gunslinger tsunami. Is that being considered for an update?

When you refer to trick arrows, are you referring to the Alchemical Archery on page 22?

[bugleyman]

neferphras wrote:

...stem the gunslinger tsunami.

Interesting...here in metro Phoenix I've seen exactly one gunslinger. Archers (rightfully) rule the roost.

[SCPRedMage]

Michael Brock wrote:

neferphras wrote:

Michael is back Yeah!!!

perfectly happy with no advanced firearms, like gunslingers dont have enough advantages.

Michael, i posted a week ago about opening up the trick arrows from elves of golarian so bow users can have something to add flavor and perhaps stem the gunslinger tsunami. Is that being considered for an update?

When you refer to trick arrows, are you referring to the Alchemical Archery on page 22?

From what I recall of the thread, yes, that is what he is referring to.

[talbanus]

thistledown wrote:

WTF? Go to Russia, fight a bunch of soldiers with rifles and machine guns, and there's not a single gun on the chronicle sheet? What the society takes them all and says "We're going to go study these. Yes, we need ALL of them. I don't care if you out-rank most venture captains. You can't have them."

That is just wrong. This was the perfect opportunity to let people try out advanced firearms, and you wasted it.

Settle down, Francis.

[Jeffrey Fox]

Iammars wrote:

thistledown wrote:

WTF? Go to Russia, fight a bunch of soldiers with rifles and machine guns, and there's not a single gun on the chronicle sheet? What the society takes them all and says "We're going to go study these. Yes, we need ALL of them. I don't care if you out-rank most venture captains. You can't have them."

That is just wrong. This was the perfect opportunity to let people try out advanced firearms, and you wasted it.

Nope. Perfectly happy that there's no advanced firearms.

• Yeah, advanced firearms are a really big deal and have the potential to change the face of Golarion by themselves. Obviously the Decemvirate wants to study them all.
  
• It's really hard to get the ammunition for them.
  
• This is still in the level range where these characters might see play in a convention special at some point. It's really unfair for convention GMs to have to deal with advanced firearms in addition to all the other problems 13+ play has.
  
• There's been a trend to put all the items that get created for one adventure on the chronicle sheet so that players don't need to by the adventure to use what's on the chronicle sheet. There's no way you're fitting the advanced firearms rules onto that chronicle sheet.
  

All good reasons...

But I still wanted to lay at your table with Holden Kane and a Machine Gun...

and somebody to cast Litany of Righteousness...

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

talbanus wrote:

thistledown wrote:

WTF? Go to Russia, fight a bunch of soldiers with rifles and machine guns, and there's not a single gun on the chronicle sheet? What the society takes them all and says "We're going to go study these. Yes, we need ALL of them. I don't care if you out-rank most venture captains. You can't have them."

That is just wrong. This was the perfect opportunity to let people try out advanced firearms, and you wasted it.

Settle down, Francis.

Could we get this in a spoiler? Thanks for spoiling part of the end of an AP for me.

[Hobbun]

?

I thought it was a Stripes reference.

[Michael Brock]

SCPRedMage wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

neferphras wrote:

Michael is back Yeah!!!

perfectly happy with no advanced firearms, like gunslingers dont have enough advantages.

Michael, i posted a week ago about opening up the trick arrows from elves of golarian so bow users can have something to add flavor and perhaps stem the gunslinger tsunami. Is that being considered for an update?

When you refer to trick arrows, are you referring to the Alchemical Archery on page 22?

From what I recall of the thread, yes, that is what he is referring to.

I don't see anything really unbalancing or incompatible about them. Let me know if I missed something.

[Jiggy]

Michael Brock wrote:

I don't see anything really unbalancing or incompatible about them.

That was neferphras' position as well. If memory serves, the main guess folks had for why those items are not already legal is maybe because they were printed under 3.5 rules...?

[neferphras]

Michael Brock wrote:

neferphras wrote:

Michael is back Yeah!!!

perfectly happy with no advanced firearms, like gunslingers dont have enough advantages.

Michael, i posted a week ago about opening up the trick arrows from elves of golarian so bow users can have something to add flavor and perhaps stem the gunslinger tsunami. Is that being considered for an update?

When you refer to trick arrows, are you referring to the Alchemical Archery on page 22?

Yep exactly like the dye marker arrow (additional question does that revel invisible, it does not say) Trip arrow things like that. Gunslingers have such a huge advantage over bow users , mainly range touch vs not range touch, adding these arrows might let archers do so things that a gunslinger can not do (better) so they are not completely outclassed by gunslingers. All for the bleeding arrow staying out, but the others are just fun.

[neferphras]

current additional resources rules out those pages 22 and 23

[Michael Brock]

I will make a note for the updating of Additional Resources at the end of this month.

For the reference, if you can find and then hit an invisible creature with a dye arrow, then yes, there would be a blue (or red or whatever) silhouette running around.

[Matthew Morris]

Jeffrey Fox wrote:

All good reasons...

But I still wanted to lay at your table with Holden Kane and a Machine Gun...

and somebody to cast Litany of Righteousness...

I too wanted to play "Gunslinger with a Maxim" at some point in PFS.

*sigh* Guess I'll have to just live with making a Gunslinger named Mozen Nagantz. :-)

[neferphras]

Michael Brock wrote:

I will make a note for the updating of Additional Resources at the end of this month.

For the reference, if you can find and then hit an invisible creature with a dye arrow, then yes, there would be a blue (or red or whatever) silhouette running around.

Thanks on both accounts,

i kind of figured on the Dye arrow but thought i should ask since it did not explicitly state that.

[redward]

neferphras wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

neferphras wrote:

Michael is back Yeah!!!

perfectly happy with no advanced firearms, like gunslingers dont have enough advantages.

Michael, i posted a week ago about opening up the trick arrows from elves of golarian so bow users can have something to add flavor and perhaps stem the gunslinger tsunami. Is that being considered for an update?

When you refer to trick arrows, are you referring to the Alchemical Archery on page 22?

Yep exactly like the dye marker arrow (additional question does that revel invisible, it does not say) Trip arrow things like that. Gunslingers have such a huge advantage over bow users , mainly range touch vs not range touch, adding these arrows might let archers do so things that a gunslinger can not do (better) so they are not completely outclassed by gunslingers. All for the bleeding arrow staying out, but the others are just fun.

It has not been my experience that archers lack for damage potential.

[Iammars]

Jeffrey Fox wrote:

Iammars wrote:

thistledown wrote:

WTF? Go to Russia, fight a bunch of soldiers with rifles and machine guns, and there's not a single gun on the chronicle sheet? What the society takes them all and says "We're going to go study these. Yes, we need ALL of them. I don't care if you out-rank most venture captains. You can't have them."

That is just wrong. This was the perfect opportunity to let people try out advanced firearms, and you wasted it.

Nope. Perfectly happy that there's no advanced firearms.

• Yeah, advanced firearms are a really big deal and have the potential to change the face of Golarion by themselves. Obviously the Decemvirate wants to study them all.
  
• It's really hard to get the ammunition for them.
  
• This is still in the level range where these characters might see play in a convention special at some point. It's really unfair for convention GMs to have to deal with advanced firearms in addition to all the other problems 13+ play has.
  
• There's been a trend to put all the items that get created for one adventure on the chronicle sheet so that players don't need to by the adventure to use what's on the chronicle sheet. There's no way you're fitting the advanced firearms rules onto that chronicle sheet.
  

All good reasons...

But I still wanted to lay at your table with Holden Kane and a Machine Gun...

and somebody to cast Litany of Righteousness...

Ah, I forgot reason number 5.

• Holden Kane is already a machine gun. We don't need to give him an actual machine gun...

[neferphras]

redward wrote:

neferphras wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

neferphras wrote:

Michael is back Yeah!!!

perfectly happy with no advanced firearms, like gunslingers dont have enough advantages.

Michael, i posted a week ago about opening up the trick arrows from elves of golarian so bow users can have something to add flavor and perhaps stem the gunslinger tsunami. Is that being considered for an update?

When you refer to trick arrows, are you referring to the Alchemical Archery on page 22?

Yep exactly like the dye marker arrow (additional question does that revel invisible, it does not say) Trip arrow things like that. Gunslingers have such a huge advantage over bow users , mainly range touch vs not range touch, adding these arrows might let archers do so things that a gunslinger can not do (better) so they are not completely outclassed by gunslingers. All for the bleeding arrow staying out, but the others are just fun.

It has not been my experience that archers lack for damage potential.

Archers are fine for damage potential. That has never been the problem in the games i have played. Its the to hit. always using range touch is huge.

to quote a local gun slinger "hitting normal AC with range is for chumps" and while play has not entirely proved that out, he has a point. Bows can do damage fine, guns can do just as much..easily if not more and they hit pretty much always. Its a big difference. Allowing the trick arrows give bow users something else to do that a gunslinger cant do better. And again they are just fun. The marker dye and trip arrow make me giggle. Cant wait to use those.

[Majuba]

neferphras wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

When you refer to trick arrows, are you referring to the Alchemical Archery on page 22?

Yep exactly like the dye marker arrow (additional question does that revel invisible, it does not say) Trip arrow things like that.

I think the Trip arrow would need some text in Additional Resources for how it works (I believe Elves of Golarion directly references 3.5 rules for tripping). Not hard to do, but important to include.

I like the Pheremone arrow - very flavorful and cooperative. Bleeding arrows are a bit much - Wounding as a non-magical effect.

[Michael Brock]

Majuba wrote:

neferphras wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

When you refer to trick arrows, are you referring to the Alchemical Archery on page 22?

Yep exactly like the dye marker arrow (additional question does that revel invisible, it does not say) Trip arrow things like that.

I think the Trip arrow would need some text in Additional Resources for how it works (I believe Elves of Golarion directly references 3.5 rules for tripping). Not hard to do, but important to include.

I like the Pheremone arrow - very flavorful and cooperative. Bleeding arrows are a bit much - Wounding as a non-magical effect.

Thanks for the head's up.

[Michael Brock]

Ok, disregard what I mentioned about not having another Additional Resources update this month! I just received the physical copies of Demon Hunter's Handbook, Faiths & Philosophies, and Demons Revisited.

Since Chris will be in the office and not at Gen Con, Additional Resources should update and go live again on August 14. That means that if you pick up your copies of these at Gen Con, you will be able to use them at the show.

[neferphras]

Michael Brock wrote:

Ok, disregard what I mentioned about not having another Additional Resources update this month! I just received the physical copies of Demon Hunter's Handbook, Faiths & Philosophies, and Demons Revisited.

Since Chris will be in the office and not at Gen Con, Additional Resources should update and go live again on August 14. That means that if you pick up your copies of these at Gen Con, you will be able to use them at the show.

Not at gencon but still mighty nice of you

[neferphras]

humm.... just thought of something with dye arrows. Something to consider that was not even possible 3.5.
So you take Dye arrow, play an alchemist, take missile bomb discovery. So your arrow does no damage, but you can now deliver your bomb on an arrow at range as a range touch.

Not sure that is a bad thing really, trade of damage for the range touch. Honestly the missile discovery i have always thought of as a waste of a bomb BECAUSE you have a high chance of missing with that missile. This sorta fixes that. Might be a good thing.

Just putting the possibility out there for thought.

[SCPRedMage]

Michael Brock wrote:

Since Chris will be in the office and not at Gen Con

Poor Chris; first he doesn't get to go to Gen Con, then Mike taunts him about it... :P

[SCPRedMage]

neferphras wrote:

humm.... just thought of something with dye arrows. Something to consider that was not even possible 3.5.

So you take Dye arrow, play an alchemist, take missile bomb discovery. So your arrow does no damage, but you can now deliver your bomb on an arrow at range as a range touch.

Not sure that is a bad thing really, trade of damage for the range touch. Honestly the missile discovery i have always thought of as a waste of a bomb BECAUSE you have a high chance of missing with that missile. This sorta fixes that. Might be a good thing.

Just putting the possibility out there for thought.

Combine the cost of the class feature and the added cost of the ammo, in exchange for extra range on the bomb, and I'm not seeing anything unbalanced about it.

An interesting option, to be sure, but not any more powerful.

[neferphras]

i agree but though i should put it out there before someone asks for a ruling on it. (like me)

[Kevin Mack]

Michael Brock wrote:

Ok, disregard what I mentioned about not having another Additional Resources update this month! I just received the physical copies of Demon Hunter's Handbook, Faiths & Philosophies, and Demons Revisited.

Since Chris will be in the office and not at Gen Con, Additional Resources should update and go live again on August 14. That means that if you pick up your copies of these at Gen Con, you will be able to use them at the show.

Bit of a random question but is the Glabezu opening pick as horrifying as James has made it out to be?

[Kyle Baird]

SCPRedMage wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

Since Chris will be in the office and not at Gen Con

Poor Chris; first he doesn't get to go to Gen Con, then Mike taunts him about it... :P

*She ;-)

[Kyle Baird]

Michael Brock wrote:

Ok, disregard what I mentioned about not having another Additional Resources update this month! I just received the physical copies of Demon Hunter's Handbook, Faiths & Philosophies, and Demons Revisited.

Since Chris will be in the office and not at Gen Con, Additional Resources should update and go live again on August 14. That means that if you pick up your copies of these at Gen Con, you will be able to use them at the show.

So for those of us who already printed the 14 page document, if players want to use something from those books, do they need to bring access to the Additional Resources page/document AND a copy of the new books/pdfs?

[Devo]

Michael Brock wrote:

Ok, disregard what I mentioned about not having another Additional Resources update this month! I just received the physical copies of Demon Hunter's Handbook, Faiths & Philosophies, and Demons Revisited.

Since Chris will be in the office and not at Gen Con, Additional Resources should update and go live again on August 14. That means that if you pick up your copies of these at Gen Con, you will be able to use them at the show.

When will the traits from Ultimate Campaign be updated on the Additional Resources?

[Lab_Rat]

Kyle Baird wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

Ok, disregard what I mentioned about not having another Additional Resources update this month! I just received the physical copies of Demon Hunter's Handbook, Faiths & Philosophies, and Demons Revisited.

Since Chris will be in the office and not at Gen Con, Additional Resources should update and go live again on August 14. That means that if you pick up your copies of these at Gen Con, you will be able to use them at the show.

So for those of us who already printed the 14 page document, if players want to use something from those books, do they need to bring access to the Additional Resources page/document AND a copy of the new books/pdfs?

That's why I asked if we would have an update before GenCon. I didn't want to reprint the additional resources pages again. However, I will already be in Indy without a printer by the time the next version goes live.

[Michael Brock]

Kyle Baird wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

Ok, disregard what I mentioned about not having another Additional Resources update this month! I just received the physical copies of Demon Hunter's Handbook, Faiths & Philosophies, and Demons Revisited.

Since Chris will be in the office and not at Gen Con, Additional Resources should update and go live again on August 14. That means that if you pick up your copies of these at Gen Con, you will be able to use them at the show.

So for those of us who already printed the 14 page document, if players want to use something from those books, do they need to bring access to the Additional Resources page/document AND a copy of the new books/pdfs?

We will have printed copies at HQ.

[Michael Brock]

Devo wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

Ok, disregard what I mentioned about not having another Additional Resources update this month! I just received the physical copies of Demon Hunter's Handbook, Faiths & Philosophies, and Demons Revisited.

Since Chris will be in the office and not at Gen Con, Additional Resources should update and go live again on August 14. That means that if you pick up your copies of these at Gen Con, you will be able to use them at the show.

When will the traits from Ultimate Campaign be updated on the Additional Resources?

Provided any are added, it will be Aug. 14.

[SCPRedMage]

Kyle Baird wrote:

SCPRedMage wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

Since Chris will be in the office and not at Gen Con

Poor Chris; first he doesn't get to go to Gen Con, then Mike taunts him about it... :P

*She ;-)

Curse you, gender-neutral names!

[Chris Lambertz]

SCPRedMage wrote:

Kyle Baird wrote:

SCPRedMage wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

Since Chris will be in the office and not at Gen Con

Poor Chris; first he doesn't get to go to Gen Con, then Mike taunts him about it... :P

*She ;-)

Curse you, gender-neutral names!

:)

[Kyle Baird]

SCPRedMage wrote:

Kyle Baird wrote:

SCPRedMage wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

Since Chris will be in the office and not at Gen Con

Poor Chris; first he doesn't get to go to Gen Con, then Mike taunts him about it... :P

*She ;-)

Curse you, gender-neutral names!

You could have tried to cover your mistake and claimed you were referring to Chris Self.

[TriOmegaZero]

Oh, THAT Chris!