Touch attack or Saving Thru (NOT BOTH)

[artificer]

I think that I did read somewhere on the CRB that many spells requires a touch attack or allow for a saving thru but usually not both. However I can’t find it now. Any idea where it is?

[willhob]

artificer wrote:

I think that I did read somewhere on the CRB that many spells requires a touch attack or allow for a saving thru but usually not both. However I can’t find it now. Any idea where it is?

Quite to the contrary. A touch is NOT an automatic action and any melee or ranged touch spell, stated or not, required a successful touch attack.

CRB wrote:

If the target of a spell is yourself (the Target line of the spell description includes “You”), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply. The saving throw and spell resistance lines are omitted from such spells.

This only applies when you are the target. Against an enemy, he might very well get 3 chances to avoid the spell, by you failing your attack roll, making his save or avoiding the spell entirely with spell resistance.

Consider the spells Contagion and Force Punch. Both require a successful touch action and both have Fortitude saves. Likewise, Spell Resistance can negate the effects of both spells.

[Take Boat]

That's not a rule, but if you look over the spells it's frequently true. Some offensive spells (like the inflict line) require both, but very few require neither, unless you count partial saves.

[wraithstrike]

artificer wrote:

I think that I did read somewhere on the CRB that many spells requires a touch attack or allow for a saving thru but usually not both. However I can’t find it now. Any idea where it is?

That is not a rule, but it is a general design philosophy. Some spells such as disintegrate require both.

[Remco Sommeling]

Only useful thing I have to add is, when creating spells yourself, you should likely not make spells that allow touch attacks and reflex saves. Though it would be alright if there is a clear distinction in the effect you are saving against, hitting with a flmaing ray should not allow a reflex save for half as well, but hitting with a flaming ray and then saving to avoid catching fire is alright.

[Vrischika111]

this is a feature of WORDS OF POWERS.

several of them are either:
* single target / ranged touch / no ST
* multi-target / area, auto-touch / ST for 1/2