Help Me Understand the Whip

[hoosierhayeslpe]

I have seen a lot of references to how good the whip has become in Pathfinder, and seen some builds here, but I am having a hard time wrapping my head around it. The whip feats are interesting at low levels, but it always seems like the interesting builds get killed in levels 8+ when builds that are made for HP, damage, and saves go up against huge flying critters.

In looking at it again the only build that seemed to work was a vivisectionist who can deliver sneak attack and poison from '15 (or '20 with enlarge person). What am I missing?

[Halfling Barbarian]

I've always figured the whip was great for trip based builds, which do suffer against creatures you can't trip...

[Abandoned Arts]

Well, this delightful little guy contains a few whip and disarm-based feats, but staying within the core, you're looking at good old Vital Strike, et al. The whip doesn't keep up in the damage department, but a 15-foot range (and the reach and special functions you can get with the APG and UC whip feats) do a lot to rachet up the whip from where it used to be, pre-Pathfinder.

Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, there is the Deadly enchantment, and as an one-handed weapon, you can wield a whip with two hands to add x1.5 strength to damage and do more with power attack.

[Malag]

I would dual wield whips with some d6 fire/acid/elec. additional damage enchantments, or maybe even do a double trip.

Char would have to be a gothic girly in tight leather tho.

[blackbloodtroll]

Combining the Deadly and Merciful enchantments add a d6 of untyped damage.

[Mergy]

I'm going to be playing a low-strength bard soon, and I was planning on using a whip with true strike for reliable tripping and disarming on demand. That's only possible at mid-to-high levels though, because it requires UMD.

[Volkspanzer]

Malag wrote:

I would dual wield whips with some d6 fire/acid/elec. additional damage enchantments, or maybe even do a double trip.

Char would have to be a gothic girly in tight leather tho.

You think it's worth taking the -4 to attack rolls though?

If you have room in your feats, combining the Mobile Fighter archetype with Whirlwind Attack, Lunge, Imp/Gtr Trip, combat reflexes, Imp. Whip Mastery, and the Dueling weapon ability from the PFS Field Guide could potentially lead to every target (except one) becoming prone (within 25 ft, assuming lunge and enlarge person) and becoming subject to an attack of opportunity (within 20 ft, assuming lunge and enlarge person) if they are knocked prone, while you make a standard move. The area you would affect looks something like this (X = You, A = Attack range, O = Attack and threaten range):

Lvl 11 Mobile Fighter (Large, 30 ft movement, Lunge feat, Imp. Whip Mastery feat, Whirlwind Attack feat, Rapid Attack (Ex))

>_____AAAAAAAAAA
>____AOOOOOOOOOOA
>___AOOOOOOOOOOOOA
>__AOOOOOOOOOOOOOOA
>_AOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOA
>_AOOOOXXXXXXXXOOOOA
>_AOOOOXXXXXXXXOOOOA
>_AOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOA
>__AOOOOOOOOOOOOOOA
>___AOOOOOOOOOOOOA
>____AOOOOOOOOOOA
>_____AAAAAAAAAA

I apologize, as I'm not sure how to format that little diagram cleanly.

This may be a bunch of garbage (there are a LOT of factors involved here), but follow me:

Attack Range: Whip 15 ft, Enlarge Person +5 ft, Lunge Feat +5 ft(during your turn) = 25 ft.

Threaten Range: Whip 5 ft, Enlarge Person +5 ft, Lunge Feat +5 ft(during your turn), Imp. Whip Mastery +5 ft = 20 ft. during turn / 15 ft. otherwise

PRD wrote:

Rapid Attack (Ex): At 11th level, a mobile fighter can combine a full attack action with a single move. He must forgo the attack at his highest bonus but may take the remaining attacks at any point during his movement. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. This ability replaces armor training 3.

PRD wrote:

Whirlwind Attack (Combat)

You can strike out at every foe within reach.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.

Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.

When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.

This only becomes crazier as you increase your ability to move (through increased movement and flying).