I have been looking at the Gunslinger and I have heard it is actually based off of the fighter. I don't wish to go through having to keep track of or use 'grit', so I was thinking about going back to the straight fighter or actual subclass of fighter (dual weapon, free hand etc) and specialize in exotic weapon (firearms), and get non-class skills (firearm fabrication, or something like that, and some skills to cover gunpowder creation. Does anyone here have any advice on the subject?
Grit is used for Deeds, some of them could translate from "As long as you have (x) grit point left" to (almost) always on.
1) First of all, all aspects of gun and ammo creation and maintainence is covered under the feat Gunsmithing. No skill point investment is required. With the feat, you can create mundane firearms and ammunition for a set price of gold and time (and materials, if your GM's a stickler).
2) But yes, the Gunslinger was originally an alternate fighter like the Ninja is an alternate rogue, but between playtest and print it became its own base class. You can make a firearm specialized fighter like you can make a bow or crossbow specialized one, you just don't have an archetype specializing in firearms, though I'm sure there's an archetype that can work well enough, or just go base fighter.
1) Craft Alchemy is needed for some type of ammo.
2) Class Skills and Skill Points (Gunslinger is somewhere between Fighter and Ranger.).
1) Craft Alchemy is needed for some type of ammo.
2) Class Skills and Skill Points (Gunslinger is somewhere between Fighter and Ranger.).
Ah, right, thank you. Yes, one rank in Craft (Alchemy) is needed to make alchemical cartridges. Standard powder and rounds do not require the skill.
As for the second point, I'm not sure what you're correcting. What I said holds true.
I'm comparing their skill lists and their skill points per level.
First of all, all aspects of gun and ammo creation and maintainence is covered under the feat Gunsmithing. No skill point investment is required. With the feat, you can create mundane firearms and ammunition for a set price of gold and time (and materials, if your GM's a stickler).
But yes, the Gunslinger was originally an alternate fighter like the Ninja is an alternate rogue, but between playtest and print it became its own base class. You can make a firearm specialized fighter like you can make a bow or crossbow specialized one, you just don't have an archetype specializing in firearms, though I'm sure there's an archetype that can work well enough, or just go base fighter.
Thank you for helping clear this issue for me.
1) Craft Alchemy is needed for some type of ammo.
2) Class Skills and Skill Points (Gunslinger is somewhere between Fighter and Ranger.).
Ah, right, thank you. Yes, one rank in Craft (Alchemy) is needed to make alchemical cartridges. Standard powder and rounds do not require the skill.
As for the second point, I'm not sure what you're correcting. What I said holds true.
I'm comparing their skill lists and their skill points per level.
And I wish to thank you as well. Both of you have done more to answer this question than trying to read the whole message board.
My GM is allowing me to use revolvers with 8 shots each (thanks to my back story). So that may allow me to put dual weapon the revolvers. The characters parents were in the gun smithing business and created two revolvers of 8 shot each for a client. When the client showed up he didn't wish to pay and they weren't going to give up the weapons. The 'bad guy' shot their son through the neck just prior to killing them. After that he tossed the place and didn't find the weapons and left figuring them all for dead. The child lived, but could not talk. He kept the minimum equipment for producing firearms and sold the rest. With the money he went to a fighter school (Players Option: lose the first bonus feat for more skill points and skills). Beyond killing the man who killed his folks his goal is to create the greatest sniper rifle in the known world....Just some back story.
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If you want a fighter archetype, Weapon Master is probably your best bet. They're all about picking one weapon (in your case, the super-revolver) and becoming absolutely amazing with that one weapon.
On the other hand, most fighter archetypes replace armor training with various things. If you're focusing on a ranged weapon, you'll need high Dex, which means armor training would be excellent for you. Straight fighter might be your best bet for that reason alone.
I haven't read the Lore Warden archetype yet, but any time anyone asks anything about Fighters, somebody suggests it, so it must be pretty good.
I've looked up the Lore Warden and overall I am not really impressed, but they do look as though they bring something to the table...so to speak. lol
Holsters and use quickdraw...don't see why it wouldn't work the other way around...unless the GM prefers using a different feat for that.
Ahahahaha. Two 8 shot revolvers. Oh boy. Your campaign is borked.
The reason you wouldn't want to do holsters & Quick Draw is that while you can make drawing a weapon faster with Quick Draw, you generally can't make it faster to sheathe/holster/put away a weapon.
So you're looking at a move action to put one gun away, and even if both reloading and drawing are free actions, you're looking at, essentially an entire round doing nothing but reloading. Now at low levels, that's not much of an issue, because with 16 shots and only 2 shots per round (3 with Rapid Shot), you've got a whole combat before you need to reload, most likely. But at higher levels, when your iterative attacks add up, you're looking at burning a round to reload pretty regularly; at best you're going to get 2 rounds of firing per round of reloading once you're at 4 iterative attacks. (And it's going to get awkward when the primary hand fires more often than the secondary, especially if Rapid Shot and haste apply to the primary always; if you can apply them to either at will, you can probably keep the ammo usage between guns consistent).
It's doable, just be aware that as you level up, you're going to be spending entire turns just reloading your weapons, and that may be very, very frustrating.
Ahahahaha. Two 8 shot revolvers. Oh boy. Your campaign is borked.
It's all part of the back story...think, Hello, my name is Indigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die....
Hence the major revolvers for a first level character. Because rules are only a guideline and the story takes first place, some concessions are made for story sake.
The reason you wouldn't want to do holsters & Quick Draw is that while you can make drawing a weapon faster with Quick Draw, you generally can't make it faster to sheathe/holster/put away a weapon.
So you're looking at a move action to put one gun away, and even if both reloading and drawing are free actions, you're looking at, essentially an entire round doing nothing but reloading. Now at low levels, that's not much of an issue, because with 16 shots and only 2 shots per round (3 with Rapid Shot), you've got a whole combat before you need to reload, most likely. But at higher levels, when your iterative attacks add up, you're looking at burning a round to reload pretty regularly; at best you're going to get 2 rounds of firing per round of reloading once you're at 4 iterative attacks. (And it's going to get awkward when the primary hand fires more often than the secondary, especially if Rapid Shot and haste apply to the primary always; if you can apply them to either at will, you can probably keep the ammo usage between guns consistent).
It's doable, just be aware that as you level up, you're going to be spending entire turns just reloading your weapons, and that may be very, very frustrating.
Thanks for the insight on the ammo vs. attacks. that will take some time and I should have time to modify the weapons a little more by adding bladed barrels before that is really a problem.
The initial question still remains, for the most part. Straight fighter using guns vs. gunfighter...
Thanks for the insight. I can't really say I am worried about the misfires though. We use the hero points options, so that can be used vs. misfires...as long as you have hero points.
Take the skill Use Magic Device (Even if cross class . . . maybe pick up a trait?) then purchase a wand of Reloading Hands (Spell in Ultimate Combat). All of your reloading needs=solved.
Ahahahaha. Two 8 shot revolvers. Oh boy. Your campaign is borked.It's all part of the back story...think, Hello, my name is Indigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die....
Hence the major revolvers for a first level character. Because rules are only a guideline and the story takes first place, some concessions are made for story sake.
...and that was a sword, not two 8-shooters, which everyone has access too. I believe he was refering to the issue of removing balance.
...and that was a sword, not two 8-shooters, which everyone has access too. I believe he was refering to the issue of removing balance.Ahahahaha. Two 8 shot revolvers. Oh boy. Your campaign is borked.It's all part of the back story...think, Hello, my name is Indigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die....
Hence the major revolvers for a first level character. Because rules are only a guideline and the story takes first place, some concessions are made for story sake.
Oh, trust me...there is balance. He has one enemy in particular that is hunting him...This is the GMs story arc...The enemy has a massive harassment cannon. I may never see him coming. These weapons are suppose to last me for many levels to come as well (not to mention they were created for someone else of higher level by someone of higher level). Story, plot lines...Doesn't that mean anything?
Thanks for the insight. I can't really say I am worried about the misfires though. We use the hero points options, so that can be used vs. misfires...as long as you have hero points.Spending hero points on misfire?
Isnt that wasting them?
Misfire happens once every 10 rounds early and once every 2 rounds at level 11 for double gun. I do not think its worth hero points.
I gotta go with the story line...that and I don't want to keep track of Grit...so I pay a price for it...it's a chance I may have to take.
I did a Ginslinger Fighter mix. the one thign I will say is with out Grit you are screwed. if you get any misfires you cant just use grit to wipe them away on the spot. you will regret not having Quick clear deed. the gunslinger is way better at firearms thane a fighter In my Opinion. they are specifically designed to be the firearm kings. also you have to keep track of ammo grit isnt any different
edit: ninjaed by some body else
Straight Fighter vs Gunslinger could be so many euphemisms.
Just an aside with no real value.
I agree though, the Gunslinger is a little crunchy and it really can slow down play if the player using the class isn't on the ball.
Straight Fighter vs Gunslinger could be so many euphemisms.
Just an aside with no real value.
I agree though, the Gunslinger is a little crunchy and it really can slow down play if the player using the class isn't on the ball.
Now that you mention it yes there can be a bevy of euphemisms. It didn't dawn on me before.
At any rate, It is a chance I will have to take...as far as being a straight fighter with a gun.