So, I've been making quite a few archer characters recently, and have helped a couple mates make STR based melee beasts.
I'm looking to do something a bit new, by making an Elven Curve Blade wielding Ranger, with high Dexterity. Something like this...
STR 12
DEX 16 (18)
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 13
CHA 8
traits
Warrior of Old/ Adopted (elf or half elf, respectively)
Forlorn/ armor Expert (Forlorn is entirely RP based)
Feats
1 Weapon Finesse
3 Iron Will
5 Step Up
7 Combat Reflexes
9 Imp. Critical
11 Critical Focus
13 Lunge
15 Following Step
17 Step Up and Strike
19 Toughness
Ranger Feats
2 Power Attack
6 Cleave
10 Great Cleave
14 Furious Focus?
18 Shield of Swings?
1.) I'm not sure if I ought to go Half-Elf or Elf for the Weapon Proficiency.
2.) If I take the Two Handed Weapon Style at level 2, I can neglect my STR to a certain degree, i.e. ignoring prerequisites for feats. Can I leave it at 12, assuming I buy a +1 Agile weapon ASAP?
3.) Is my feat selection good enough for what i want to do? I thought about making room for boon Companion?
4.) How viable will this character be?
Any advice is much appreciated!
Why not go scimitar? Nab Dervish Dance, and choose two-handed weapon style to get power attack without the 13 strength.
Because with an agile Elven Curve Blade, I can two hand it and get 3 damage for every -1 attack, whereas with Dervish Dance I can only use one hand, thus getting back 2 damage for every -1 attack.
Combined with a D10, this leads to more damage, for less feats.
Personally I think you should consider the Switch Hitter route, that is a combination of ranged attacks and strong melee
Thus, you'll need to drop your Dex to 15 (17 w. bonus) and increase your Strength to 14.
Feat selection would be as follows
1 Weapon Finesse
3 Power Attack
5 Deadly Aim
7 Cleave
9 Imp. Critical
11 Critical Focus
13 Bleeding Critcal
15 Hammer the Gap
17 Lunge
19 Improved InitiativeFrom the Ranger Feats
2 Point Blank Shot
6 Rapid Shot
10 Pinpoint Targeting
14 Many Shot
18 Shot on the RunUltimately the aim is to have a character that makes best use of your high dexterity and with a couple of strength boosting magic items, and a composite longbow, your damage output at range will be nearly as good as a ranged specialist, whilst still retaining a potent punch in melee.
Pick up a Wolf companion to trip your enemies up as well, so if you want to get off extra arrows you can (IIRC and companions get feats, then try to get the Spring attack feat for the wolf, spring in, trip, spring out, pepper with arrows)
Actually, a proper switch hitter ought to look more like this:
STR 18
DEX 14
CON 13
INT 10
WIS 13
CHA 7
1 Power Attack
3 Cleave
5 Quick Draw
7 Deadly Aim
9 Improved Critical: Falchion
11 Critical Focus
13 Bleeding Critcal
etc, etc.
Ranger Feats
2 Rapid Shot
6 Many Shot
10 imp. precise shot
14 Clustered Shots
Etc. etc.
The "classic" switch hitter ranger, as suggested by Treantmonk (in his guide), should be a melee character first, who happens to be almost as good as an archer, by skipping prerequisites, like Point Blank Shot... which you, for some reason, have. Which entirely misses the point of a proper switch hitting ranger.
Which, in any case, is not what I am asking advice about. Like I said, I am going for a Finesse, Two handed ranger... no archery feats.
Thanks anyway though.
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Okay I've played an elven feness fighter with a curve blade. Note that only Elves not half elves get this weapon as a marshel weapon for, any one else its an eccsotic. So go elf. The stats that worked for me was an 18 dex and a 14 str, I had a limited point by. This gave me a solid plus 4 to attacks and a flat plus 3 to damage that turnd into plus 5 with powr attack(at 3rd level). I dont know why people jump to scimitars they only do a 1d6 and curv-blades do the 1d10! Thuogh bolth have the nice 18-20 crit.
All I had to do then was get a bow and I had switch hitter that did mager damage with out even putting much level by level planeing into.
Throw in deadly aim and your other basic feats and your good to go.
My elf was a barbarian ( 1 lvl at lvl 1)so I also had rage bonus and some extra hit points to make up for the low race con elvs have. Later levels I added some ruoge for sneak attack damage beacaus I found I useing acrobatics to get into flanking posistions, but that was me and the party I was in.
A wolf companion for your ranger would be good but why I mentoned the rogue levels. Was I also had a level of druid and the boon companion feat. My companion was a leather armerd eagel that, sence it could fly, could move rather freely into flanking with my already acrobatic elf.
I know it was a lot of multi classing but it worked surprisingly well and drove my GM nutts. A strate Ranger build would be a solid way to go.
a half elf can get proficiency with Elven Curve Blade via the alternate racial trait, Ancestral Arms.
So both can get Elven Curve Blade proficiency, so thats a moot issue.
My issue with elves is that they get bonuses to DEX and INT, but a penalty to CON.
Half Elves get a bonus to whatever stat they want, and no penalties.
My above build example assumed Half Elf, but I wouldn't mind playing an Elf.
I'm just curious as to which would be better.
Tengu are cool and all, but I don't particularly feel like playing a weird birdman.
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I didnt know about the trait most my know how comes out of the core book but another boost with a half elf is the skill emphisis feat for free. just something i've noticed makes a diffrince some times when picking between the two.
All i can say is its doable. the charicter I played made it solo threw the smuggelers shiv story arch with only the help of the in game nps's. hince the multi classing for versitility. But to do a full ranger or fighter build in a group would asome. You'd be kicken down doors and takeing names no problum.
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Side note: The Agile Property won't be giving the elf 1.5X Dexterity to damage, which is the biggest issue I can see beyond the "Not super helpful in the combat department until an agile weapon" pitfall. Rangers have enough tricks to be good in some situations, so it's nothing really terrible. What else are you looking to do with all that dexterity beyond AC and Acrobatics? Is it worth the hit to feats and damage?
With your finesse build I'd still do what's necessary to get str to 14, taking that bonus from +1 to +2 actually nets you 2 points more of damage since you're going to do +1.5 with power attack. Not having an even bonus when using power attack with a 1hd weapon is cheating yourself out of one of the big advantages of a 2hd weapon.
Only reason Im looking at a DEX base is to mix things up a bit. Yeah, agile won't multiply when using two hands. Sure, not having at least 14 STR drops me 2 damage.
Im just trying to make the most effective Finesse warrior that I can.
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Urban Barbarian is good too.
It is. You can actually go Ranger (or Urban Ranger) 2 followed by Urban Barbarian to really max out your Finesse Warrior cred.
If doing that, I'd probably go with something like this, stat-wise:
Str 10 (if dumping, dump)
Dex 19
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 8
Half-elf version.
Your damage sucks at level 1, as a flat 1d10...but your AC is easily 18, which isn't shabby. At 2nd it goes to 1d10+3 as you universally Power Attack. By 3rd, your AC is up to 20 with just Rage and a Mithral Chain Shirt. By 4th, when your Dex goes to 20 (24 when Raging) and your damage to 1d10+6, you're starting to look really nasty, and can expect to be getting an Agile Weapon soon. As soon as you get it your damage skyrockets to 1d10+14 minimum and your AC remains wonderful.
If you grab the Beast Totem Rage Powers by 8th your AC will be stratospheric and you'll eventually get Pounce as well. If you grab superstition, you're taking a risk, but your Saves are suddenly actually quite good.
It's a solid build.
I do like the elven curved blades!
I don't understand, why are you saying that you loose 2 point of damage going from STR 14 to STR 12? Once you get an agile weapon this is irrelevant.
Going for STR would be better (x1,5 STR, don't waste a +1 on agile weapon) but I like dexterous fighters too so I can see why you want to go for DEX: not a big problem, you will do fine even this way.
I'd listen to Adrezi's advice and take at least the basic archery feats: this will help you greatly.
Power Attack needs Strength 13.
Power Attack needs Strength 13.
not when you get the feat as a ranger combat feat, which allows you to ignore prerequisites.
Power Attack needs Strength 13.not when you get the feat as a ranger combat feat, which allows you to ignore prerequisites.
Oops, then I apologize.
Muleback cords (or whatever they are called), handy eversack, efficient quiver, a strong friend... There are a lot of ways to go around a low STR score.
Muleback cords (or whatever they are called), handy eversack, efficient quiver, a strong friend... There are a lot of ways to go around a low STR score.Muleback cords use slot of cloak of protection, so its giving up at least +1 on all saves.
Handy haversack is 5 lbs, efficient quiver 2.
For str 10 curved blade fighter its still 20 lbs armor, 5 lbs haversack, 3 lbs bow, 2 lbs quiver, 7 lbs elven blade = 37 lbs => medium encumberance.
Taking muleback solves the problem, but effictively reduces saves. So str 10 is a limitation.
Not really, you can add a secondary property paying 1,5 times the price, it's 500 gp if I remember right.
Muleback cords (or whatever they are called), handy eversack, efficient quiver, a strong friend... There are a lot of ways to go around a low STR score.Muleback cords use slot of cloak of protection, so its giving up at least +1 on all saves.
Handy haversack is 5 lbs, efficient quiver 2.
For str 10 curved blade fighter its still 20 lbs armor, 5 lbs haversack, 3 lbs bow, 2 lbs quiver, 7 lbs elven blade = 37 lbs => medium encumberance.
Taking muleback solves the problem, but effictively reduces saves. So str 10 is a limitation.
Really while a cloak of protection is nice, you don't need the bonus, nor do you have to have it be a cloak, for the same price you can make it a shirt of protection, or a hat, or a body item, whatever.
So muleback cords will solve the problem of a low STR score and are cheap as well.
And with that note you also don't need muleback cords take up the shoulders slot either, you can craft them into any slot.
Also you can store the bow in the quiver.
Personally I think you should consider the Switch Hitter route, that is a combination of ranged attacks and strong melee
Thus, you'll need to drop your Dex to 15 (17 w. bonus) and increase your Strength to 14.
Feat selection would be as follows
1 Weapon Finesse
Weapon Finesse is a wasted feat for a character whose Dex mod is only one higher than his Str mod. With those stats, he may as well just take Weapon Focus.
I agree with the posters who are saying that 12 Strength is a bad idea though. Either go down to 10 and live with the lower damage or up to 14 and leave off Finesse until you get your Dex to 18, or maybe even 20. Any character that's either using two hands or two weapons should be looking to have an even Str bonus.
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Personally I think you should consider the Switch Hitter route, that is a combination of ranged attacks and strong melee
Thus, you'll need to drop your Dex to 15 (17 w. bonus) and increase your Strength to 14.
Feat selection would be as follows
1 Weapon Finesse
3 Power Attack
5 Deadly Aim
7 Cleave
9 Imp. Critical
11 Critical Focus
13 Bleeding Critcal
15 Hammer the Gap
17 Lunge
19 Improved InitiativeFrom the Ranger Feats
2 Point Blank Shot
6 Rapid Shot
10 Pinpoint Targeting
14 Many Shot
18 Shot on the RunUltimately the aim is to have a character that makes best use of your high dexterity and with a couple of strength boosting magic items, and a composite longbow, your damage output at range will be nearly as good as a ranged specialist, whilst still retaining a potent punch in melee.
Pick up a Wolf companion to trip your enemies up as well, so if you want to get off extra arrows you can (IIRC and companions get feats, then try to get the Spring attack feat for the wolf, spring in, trip, spring out, pepper with arrows)
Actually, a proper switch hitter ought to look more like this:
STR 18
DEX 14
CON 13
INT 10
WIS 13
CHA 71 Power Attack
3 Cleave
5 Quick Draw
7 Deadly Aim
9 Improved Critical: Falchion
11 Critical Focus
13 Bleeding Critcal
etc, etc.Ranger Feats
2 Rapid Shot
6 Many Shot
10 imp. precise shot
14 Clustered Shots
Etc. etc.The "classic" switch hitter ranger, as suggested by Treantmonk (in his guide), should be a melee character first, who happens to be almost as good as an archer, by skipping prerequisites, like Point Blank Shot... which you, for some reason, have. Which entirely misses the point of a proper switch hitting ranger.
Which, in any case, is not what I am asking advice about. Like I said, I am going for a Finesse, Two handed ranger... no archery feats.
Thanks anyway though.
I was considering a build like your original post, but I did the math vs the very same build but STR based. It was depressing.
The finesse route is not even remotely close in terms of DPR (I know it isn't everything) - which led me to consider a build very similar to your Switch Hitter version. Overall it's a much better approach because the character is a viable ranged threat as well.
That's my two cents anyhow.
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My son is playing a fairly successful Elven (Urban)Ranger/Rogue, using an Elven curveblade. The two-handed weapon is very much a changeup from the usual rogue with light weapon, and makes for some interesting combat situations. Taking levels in Rogue basically exchanges or delays some of the Ranger features for Sneak Attack - you already limit yourself to lighter armour, and have the Dex to be able to Stealth and Disable Device effectively etc.
He is using a build with 14 Str and 18 Dex, but his Con and Wis are a little light (12 and 12, I think?). Yes, he also dumped Cha.