Taleek |
I posted this in the Weapon Finesse guide thread, but I don't think that was the best place to ask for help, so here I go:
Race: Elf (or Half-Elf, haven't decided)
Class: Samurai (Sword Saint) / Magus (Blackblade & Kensai)
Strength: 10
Dexterity: 18
Constitution: 10
Intelligence: 18
Wisdom 8
Charisma 13
From another thread here, I got the idea of a wandering swordsman who doesn't draw his sword unless fighting a "worthy" opponent. To that end I want to make use of the Equipment Trick feat, so here are my thoughts on the first ten levels of my progression:
1 Samurai - Weapon Finesse
2 Magus
3 Samurai - Combat Expertise
4 Magus
5 Magus - Improved Trip
6 Samurai
7 Magus - Equipment Trick (Heavy Blade Scabbard)
8 Magus (5) - Combat Reflexes
9 Magus - Greater Trip
10 Magus
I like the synergy of the three archetypes (that and combining the Kensai and Sword Saint archetypes satisfies my OCD) and think that it might make for a pretty good maneuvers guy. Any suggestions, particularly on how best to utilize equipment trick, or when best to take the feat? I mostly want to use Samurai and Magus, but would be very perceptive to any other class suggestions.
EDIT: To preemptively answer a question for something I just noticed: I believe my GM will allow me to use a Elven Curve Blade sword, both with the Kensai and the Sword Saints abilities.
Taleek |
half-elf for the option of having 2 favored classes.
That's the route I think I'm going to take. And after reading up on it, I really like the master of many styles
Race: Half-Elf
Class: Magus (Blackblade & Kensai)11/ Monk (MoMS) 3
Strength: 10
Dexterity: 18
Constitution: 10
Intelligence: 16
Wisdom 16 (13 +3 4th, 8th, & 12th level bonus)
Charisma 10
1 Magus - Weapon Finesse
2 Monk (1) - Panther Style
3 Magus - Dodge
4 Magus
5 Monk (2) - Panther Claw & Mobility
6 Magus
7 Monk - Crane Style
8 Magus (5) - Combat Style Master
9 Magus - Crane Wing
10 Magus
11 Magus - Crane Riposte
12 Magus
13 Magus - Panther Parry
14 Magus (11) - Dimensional Agility
I like the synergy of combining wisdom, intelligence, and dexterity for AC. Add in some stat boosting items, magical gear, and the spells Shield and Mage Armor and the AC can get pretty crazy. Move around, make a bunch of retaliatory attacks for decent damage, and basically don't get touched.
Mathwei ap Niall |
Nemitri wrote:half-elf for the option of having 2 favored classes.That's the route I think I'm going to take. And after reading up on it, I really like the master of many styles
Race: Half-Elf
Class: Magus (Blackblade & Kensai)11/ Monk (MoMS) 3Strength: 10
Dexterity: 18
Constitution: 10
Intelligence: 16
Wisdom 16 (13 +3 4th, 8th, & 12th level bonus)
Charisma 101 Magus - Weapon Finesse
2 Monk (1) - Panther Style
3 Magus - Dodge
4 Magus
5 Monk (2) - Panther Claw & Mobility
6 Magus
7 Monk - Crane Style
8 Magus (5) - Combat Style Master
9 Magus - Crane Wing
10 Magus
11 Magus - Crane Riposte
12 Magus
13 Magus - Panther Parry
14 Magus (11) - Dimensional AgilityI like the synergy of combining wisdom, intelligence, and dexterity for AC. Add in some stat boosting items, magical gear, and the spells Shield and Mage Armor and the AC can get pretty crazy. Move around, make a bunch of retaliatory attacks for decent damage, and basically don't get touched.
The synergy is great but remember if you don't draw your weapon you won't be able to spell combat. You actually HAVE to have a real weapon in your hand to use that ability and unarmed strikes don't count.
Revan |
The synergy is great but remember if you don't draw your weapon you won't be able to spell combat. You actually HAVE to have a real weapon in your hand to use that ability and unarmed strikes don't count.
I don't think that's accurate at all. Spell Combat states: "To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand."
An unarmed strike is a light melee weapon--see the text under Unarmed Strike that "an Unarmed Strike is always considered a light weapon." Therefore, you can use Spell Combat with unarmed strikes.
slacks |
If he doesn't draw his weapon he will lose almost all benefits from both Bladebound and Kensai archetypes, I'm not sure why he would do that...
Also I don't think you can use spell combat with an Elven Curved Blade since it is two handed and you must have an empty hand for spell combat.
I don't know what you are trying to do, it looks like you are going for high defense but I don't see why the monsters would target you to begin with.
Taleek |
If he doesn't draw his weapon he will lose almost all benefits from both Bladebound and Kensai archetypes, I'm not sure why he would do that...
Also I don't think you can use spell combat with an Elven Curved Blade since it is two handed and you must have an empty hand for spell combat.
I don't know what you are trying to do, it looks like you are going for high defense but I don't see why the monsters would target you to begin with.
I edited in a disclaimer at the bottom of my first post stating that my GM would allow me to use an elven curved blade with spell combat, just with an additional penalty.
The idea is to only draw the sword against "worthy" opponents, ie. tougher creatures and boss fights. The unarmed fighting ability of the monk level dips would allow me to do that. Likewise, with the Panther and Crane style feats, my intention is to run around drawing AoO from the bad guys, making them miss while also hitting them with retaliatory attacks. If they decide not to attack the character, then I could just hit them with potent enough spell combat combinations until they're either a) down or b) forced to pay attention again.
slacks |
Ah, your edit is unclear since neither Sword Saint nor Kensai grant spell combat. I also don't see anything about a penalty...
Is he specifically letting you use the ECB one handed? I ask because Crane Wing will also not work without a free hand. I also wonder how that works with Power Attack, which is generally amazing with two handed weapons. Kensai with ECB and spell combat seems pretty nuts.
***Other non-RAW parts of your build****
You have spent 23 points in character generation.
You do not qualify for Crane Riposte at level 11, due to your 3 level dip into monk your BAB is only +7 at that point. You also don't qualify for Combat Style Master for the same reason.
You have not listed your Magus Arcana choices, traits, skills, favored class bonus, spells...
****Other Concerns****
You have CON 10, d8 hit die, no armor proficiency, and no uncanny dodge. I would be very afraid of losing my DEX bonus (i.e. not going first, darkness, etc.) and then having an AC of 10-13... although at some point you will be getting Combat Style Master to help with not going first.
Mage Armor is not on the Magus spell list and Shield is 1 min/level, which means you will need to be ready for a fight to use it. Also remember that you only get 5 level 1 spells per day at level 14, and True Strike and Shocking Grasp are level 1 as well.
I would also be a little worried about hitting. Magus is basically full BAB when he can keep his weapon energized with his Arcane Pool. Your arcane pool is smaller than usual since you are bladebound, splitting items with WIS, and have fewer spells (so you are more likely to need spell recall). Basically you only get 7 minutes of full BAB per day at level 14, assuming you aren't spending those points on something else. You apparently are not increasing your primary attack stat (DEX), which starts high but is not being increased. Starting at level 7 you are presumably taking -2 on your attacks so you can use Crane Wing.
I'm not sure why you would want Dimensional Agility since you can only cast Dimensional Door once per day at that level given your INT and Kensai.
Mathwei ap Niall |
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:The synergy is great but remember if you don't draw your weapon you won't be able to spell combat. You actually HAVE to have a real weapon in your hand to use that ability and unarmed strikes don't count.I don't think that's accurate at all. Spell Combat states: "To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand."
An unarmed strike is a light melee weapon--see the text under Unarmed Strike that "an Unarmed Strike is always considered a light weapon." Therefore, you can use Spell Combat with unarmed strikes.
An unarmed strike is NOT a light weapon, it is an unarmed attack that is considered a light weapon for certain feats/conditions.
There is nothing that states anywhere in the books that says it's a melee weapon, only that it is treated as one for certain feats/conditions.
An unarmed strike is exactly that, an UNARMED strike, it is not an melee weapon so is invalid for the spell combat ability.
chaoseffect |
An unarmed strike is exactly that, an UNARMED strike, it is not an melee weapon so is invalid for the spell combat ability.
Touch spells are normally delivered through just that, a touch. There's logically no reason besides semantics against the idea that you could just punch them in the face with that shocking grasp instead of gently caressing them.
Mathwei ap Niall |
Now that I have a bit more time to explain it, and blatantly steal a post from Mathmuse who did an amazing job breaking it down in this post unarmed strikes.
Here's the core of it, look in the core rulebook combat chapter about unarmed strikes) and you will see that with IUS you are considered to be ARMED but you are still weaponless and every entry states that unarmed strikes are considered weaponless attacks. Since spell combat requires you to be wielding a weapon to use it you can therefore not use spell combat with unarmed strikes.
Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:
Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking without a weapon provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. A weaponless attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes, nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.
An unarmed character can't take attacks of opportunity (but see “Armed” Unarmed Attacks, below).
“Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's weaponless attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).
Note that being armed counts for both offense and defense (the character can make attacks of opportunity).
Unarmed Strike Damage: A weaponless attack from a Medium character deals 1d3 points of bludgeoning damage (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). A Small character's weaponless attack deals 1d2 points of bludgeoning damage, while a Large character's weaponless attack deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage. All damage from weaponless attacks is nonlethal damage. Weaponless attacks count as light weapons (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on).
Dealing Lethal Damage: You can specify that your weaponless attack will deal lethal damage before you make your attack roll, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can deal lethal damage with a weaponless attack without taking a penalty on the attack roll.
Now what about the Monk and it's Improved Unarmed Strike feat? Well lets take a look at the feat in question then.
You are skilled at fighting while unarmed.
Benefit: You are considered to be armed even when weaponless—you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you attack foes without weapons. Your weaponless attacks can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your choice.
Normal: Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with a weaponless attack, and you can deal only nonlethal damage with such an attack.
Everything in this feat simply reinforces that unarmed strikes are WEAPONLESS attacks so they do not meet the criteria for spell combat.
Now to be perfectly honest you technically can't use spellstrike to deliver a spell with a punch to the face either since Spellstrike specifically states that you have to channel the spell through a weapon.
HOWEVER you can deliver a spell through a unarmed attack via the touch attack rules you just wouldn't benefit from the spellstrike rules. There is actually a FAQ posting that states this as bluntly as possible.
Faq
On a related topic, the magus touching his held weapon doesn’t count as “touching anything or anyone” when determining if he discharges the spell. A magus could even use the spellstrike ability, miss with his melee attack to deliver the spell, be disarmed by an opponent (or drop the weapon voluntarily, for whatever reason), and still be holding the charge in his hand, just like a normal spellcaster. Furthermore, the weaponless magus could pick up a weapon (even that same weapon) with that hand without automatically discharging the spell, and then attempt to use the weapon to deliver the spell. However, if the magus touches anything other than a weapon with that hand (such as retrieving a potion), that discharges the spell as normal.
If you don't have an actual weapon in hand you can't spellstrike, it falls back to the touch spells rule.
slacks |
Wait, since when does Kensai not grant spell combat?
Magus gives you spell combat, but it is not a feature of the Kensai archetype. When someone talks about "Kensai abilities" I think of the features granted by the archetype, not the features of the base class.
It was just a miss-communication with the OP, if you are a Kensai then you will have spell combat.
Taleek |
Very interesting. What about this portion in the monk entry:
A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
Wouldn't this preempt the IUS feat entry, as it is more specific, and allow the monk's unarmed strike to count for magus abilities?