Tank Wizard at first level?


Advice


So I was thinking at first level a wizard could tank. Max HP at first level, plus a toad Familiar for +3, Toughness for another +3 gives you 12 HP plus whatever your con mod is. Buff your dex, cast Mage Armor and Shield and you could in theory get a 20+ AC. If you have more ideas on how to improve this or situations in which this could be useful I would be glad to hear. I know this isn't the most optimized but i figure if you're in a low level campaign without a tank this could be useful. And if this is old news well sorry for bothering you.


12 hp is still low enough to get one shotted


fight on the edge of an obscuring mist for 20% miss chance

but you could instead use sleep and color spray to negate threats before they swing at you


Did it with a gnome tattoed sorc destined to dragon disciple, with a turtle familiar.

AC = 10 +2(dex)+1(size)+4(mage armor)+4(shield)+1(nat) = 22

First level you get toughness, or improved natural armor if GM allows.

Quote:
12 hp is still low enough to get one shotted

he said 12 hp plus constitution mod, wich is pretty much like any martial class (10 base + toughness + con)


Add dodge feat. not much but it is a +1 to AC.

You could also consider speccing armomr proficiencies and still casting, so you could end up castin in plate armour and shield with no arcane spell failure.

True story.

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Funny, we printed a feat for exactly this kind of wizard just a couple days ago.

It's a 5th-level option, though. For a strictly first-level AC monkey, may I suggest the kobold? Bear with me...

AC starts at 10. Add:
+4 armor (mage armor)
+3 Dex
+2 natural armor (racial bonus + Improved Natural Armor)
+4 shield (shield)
+1 size

HP starts at 6. Add:
+1 favored class
+3 toad familiar

That's AC 24 at 1st level, with 10 hp.

I know the stats on a kobold aren't exactly stellar (you won't likely have a Con bonus), but your hp are equivalent to a first-level ranger or inquisitor with 12 Con and favored class bonuses. And that's before you gain access to false life.


Quote:
You could also consider speccing armor proficiencies

It is 3 feats for a wizard to go full plate, I think it's a bit too much. But if attack bonus is not an issue any wizard can still spell and wear full plate + tower shield.


Highglander wrote:
Quote:
You could also consider speccing armor proficiencies

It is 3 feats for a wizard to go full plate, I think it's a bit too much. But if attack bonus is not an issue any wizard can still spell and wear full plate + tower shield.

Could just dip into fighter for 1 level and save yourself 3 feats


The problem is that with a wizard-tank, you remain squishy. All the armour in the world won't save you if a natural 20 pops up and the creature deals you good damage...

Also, you can get shield focus for another +1 bonus to dodge.


A further problem is, low levels are really where casting in melee might actually incur attacks of opportunity. More attack rolls equals more 20s.


even a high CON barbarian can die from an unfortunately timed nat 20 at 1st level.

20+ AC is about a good as you can do low level wiz

however once you get mirror image, blink etc then you can start tanking ;)

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Don't forget false life and obscuring mist.


Well I was trying to do this at low levels, I mean I know u can do like mithral half plate with arcane armor mastery. But I was going for more Levels 1-3 i guess.

Actually I just looked it up and full plate is 35% and half-plate is 40% so mithral full plate with arcane armor mastery would only give 5% spell failure as opposed to 10% from half-plate.


With the evocation school, you can you your school power to hit without an attack roll or ASF check. So take the biggest armor you can get your hands on, pick up a tower shield, and start taking.

Any school could use the magical lineage (magic missile) trait and 1st lvl feat on Still Spell, to cast magic missiles without spell failure.

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I'm unsure as to how this actually works other than for blocking up bottlenecks and the like with a high AC. I recall fighting many 1/4 or 1/3 creatures at first level as opposed to one large CR 1 or CR 2 creature. Rounding up multiple monsters at low levels would be difficult and there's no real ability to ensure they attack you. How do I ensure that 3 goblins all attack me as a mage? I have no idea, would be better to kill one than attempt to get them all attacking me. I'm not even talking about optimization here, just simple mechanics.

Just my 2c.


HaraldKlak wrote:

With the evocation school, you can you your school power to hit without an attack roll or ASF check. So take the biggest armor you can get your hands on, pick up a tower shield, and start taking.

Any school could use the magical lineage (magic missile) trait and 1st lvl feat on Still Spell, to cast magic missiles without spell failure.

Loving this thread if someone can tell me additionally how to add metamagics at 1-3rd without increasing the casting time to a full-round I think I just found my next character! I like magus don't get me wrong, my favorite character ever was a half-drow wizard20 epic10 archmage4 that could smoke ANYthing my dm could come up with short of fiat or greater deific retribution. My second favorite was a dwarf barbarian20 ftr5 legendary dreadnaught4...so I like wizards,tanks and hybrids in that order, adding tankiness to a wizard is a sexy idea to me i must say!


Except arcana bloodline, there is spontaneous metafocus.
Thing is, a wizard applying metamagic doesn't increase casting time, only spontaneous casters do.

Grand Lodge

Why not Tank Witch? You play as an Orc, and use constitution for spells and hexes.

One does not simply Tank a Wizard.


Lets see best I can do is Kobold Wizard, Toad familiar with Toughness.
Stats are Str-3 Dex-18 Con- 12 Int- 16 Wis - 8 and Cha - 7.

This gives him 14 HP (6 max at first level, 3 from toad familiar, 3 from toughness, and 1 from Con, 1 from a favored class)

AC: 10+ 4(Mage Armor) + 4(shield) + 3(dex) + 1 (natural armor) + 1(size) = 23
Touch = 15 I think
Flat-footed= 20 I think
Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.


zauriel56 wrote:
So I was thinking at first level a wizard could tank. Max HP at first level, plus a toad Familiar for +3, Toughness for another +3 gives you 12 HP plus whatever your con mod is. Buff your dex, cast Mage Armor and Shield and you could in theory get a 20+ AC. If you have more ideas on how to improve this or situations in which this could be useful I would be glad to hear. I know this isn't the most optimized but i figure if you're in a low level campaign without a tank this could be useful. And if this is old news well sorry for bothering you.

The only problem I see is shield is only 10 rounds at 1st level. Makes it difficult to keep your tanking up when you've only got 3 spells per day. If you're a dwarf, the +2 Con and Wisdom and +2 vs all saves will help with your tank-mage (it's +1 HP, +2 negative HP threshold, and a net +3 to Fort and Will vs spells).

As others noted, using miss chances to your advantage is a good deal. Dropping a smokestick at your feet will give you a 20% concealment which should negate 1/5 attacks thrown at you. Remember that if you're just trying to dodge attacks while your party kills stuff, a total defense (standard action) nets you a +4 dodge bonus to your AC.

Halflings get +2 Dex and a +1 size bonus to AC (net +2 AC) which can help. If you're allowed to play kobolds, they have a +2 Dex, +1 size, and +1 natural, bringing your net AC to +3 (but they have a -2 Con so you loose 1 HP at 1st level and 1 HP each level after), but they do keep the 30 ft. movement speed.

The best spell-tanks are actually the larger reptilian races, but they have a level adjustment, which means not at 1st level (you could begin play as a lizardfolk at 1st level and become a wizard at 2nd level though). Lizardfolk get +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, and +5 natural armor. Consider a sorcerer and you could do very well as a spell-tank (especially if you choose a bloodline that provides additional natural armor). For example, a lizardfolk 1 / sorcerer 3 is 4th level, and has a +6 natural armor bonus. So with Dex 14, mage armor, and natural, you've got 22 AC naked, which is pretty good (and you can channel touch spells through your natural attakcs). By high levels, your natural armor from being a sorcerer increases to +4, giving you a +9 natural armor which stacks with an amulet of natural armor, which means you could reach +14 natural armor, +8 Dexterity, +7 armor (+5 silken ceremonial armor + armored kilt), +6 shield (+5 mithral buckler), +5 deflection (ring), for a total AC of 50.

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