I am trying to make a cleric of the stats below.
Not written in stone so feel free to suggest all sorts of changes to the build.
But the idea is something like Redcloak from Order of the stick, but using heavy armor or med armor maybe in this case, being a support character but can wield destruction too. (though redcloak usually slays lower levels) a two way cleric so support and offense.
Just the clerical idea, not going to make a goblin or such.
Also if people have sort of clerical archetypes/builds etc. to share I'd love to see them.
As an example: archer cleric, bad touch cleric and so on forth.
(from tark's cleric guide)
Alignment: Neutral, maybe Lawful Evil.
Domains: Death with undead most likely and something other.
Gods: Urgathoa?
Level:5
Role: Support/Offense ( two way forward kind of :) )
Race: Human
Stats: 25 point buy
Str:10
Dex:12
Con:14
Int:10
Wis:17+2(racial)+1(level4)
Cha:14
Channels negative energy maybe positive not sure.
Feats:
1:Heavy armor Profficiency
1:Scribe Scroll
3:Improved Initiate
5:Combat Casting
(other possiblities?)
Selective channel
Toughness
Preffered spell
Skills:3 points per level 15 total
Spellcraft:5 ranks
Knowledge religion:2 ranks
Perception:2 ranks
Knowledge arcana: 2 ranks
Diplomacy: 2 ranks
Heal: 2 rank
Thank you for your help :)
Any advice or certain build? =)?
Not sure Redcloak is rocking the platemail? Better feats out there.
Scribe scroll will never come into play,. Bad guys can buy them rather than worry about crafting. Be sure he has a couple of good scrolls onhim and that he uses them tho.
Stick to negative energy channel it's a nice area attack that he can blow out a few times per combat OR use to heal his undead minions as needed.
Be sure to add your 5 hp from favored class (skills won't come up for the most part)
Oh wait.. is this a PC or the BBG?
Not sure Redcloak is rocking the platemail? Better feats out there.
Scribe scroll will never come into play,. Bad guys can buy them rather than worry about crafting. Be sure he has a couple of good scrolls onhim and that he uses them tho.
Stick to negative energy channel it's a nice area attack that he can blow out a few times per combat OR use to heal his undead minions as needed.
Be sure to add your 5 hp from favored class (skills won't come up for the most part)
Oh wait.. is this a PC or the BBG?
Yeah... I guess I forgot to mention ^^ It's a PC, coming to a neutral party with like 1 good character who is on good way to neutral.
So I think my character can't buy all the scrolls, trying to make him half support half offense, as said above.
PCs are a little different.
Still stay off Heavy Armor. Get a chain shirt and a shield maybe?
Your weapon may or may not be dictated by your god so now might be a good time to choose. In any case, your low Phys stats make being a combat monster unlikely but you can hope to maintain and buff your people. .
Ok. skip the Note on scribe scroll then might come in handy but you have to use it when you have the $$ to make them. Lots of folks take these creation feats then sit on gold...
You may want to stay Channel negative to go with your role as neutral/ evil champion of undeath. Pharasma is a goddess of dead who Abhors undead so if you go that route channel positive.
Selective channeling would help you use this to better effect in either case.
Pump up your perception. It's not considered the most important skill in the game for nothing. With a good Wis you could get a substantial bonus and save yourself and your friends some surprise round grief.
PCs are a little different.
Still stay off Heavy Armor. Get a chain shirt and a shield maybe?
Your weapon may or may not be dictated by your god so now might be a good time to choose. In any case, your low Phys stats make being a combat monster unlikely but you can hope to maintain and buff your people. .
Ok. skip the Note on scribe scroll then might come in handy but you have to use it when you have the $$ to make them. Lots of folks take these creation feats then sit on gold...
You may want to stay Channel negative to go with your role as neutral/ evil champion of undeath. Pharasma is a goddess of dead who Abhors undead so if you go that route channel positive.
Selective channeling would help you use this to better effect in either case.Pump up your perception. It's not considered the most important skill in the game for nothing. With a good Wis you could get a substantial bonus and save yourself and your friends some surprise round grief.
Why? I think I get better AC from heavy armor, also I am not looking for a melee avatar of destruction, with spells one is decent enough in melee also I am looking for high DC on spells.
Why med armor? Also got any suggestions of spells for offense or crowd control CC.
Reach Spell (feat) is an excellent way to get an offense spell (Inflict Wounds) at range as well as buffing people when not in combat. You can spontaneously cast those offensive spells too if you do pick negative energy over positive, which is nice.
STR 10 + heavy armor? That's a harsh combo for encumbrance. You could pick the Dodge feat for +1 AC (vs. touch attack too) and make up a lot of the difference between medium and heavy armor.
Further, with being able to use the Reach Spell feat in offense, healing, and buffing, you might be able to ditch the Combat Casting feat and pick up Shield Focus, completely negating the benefit of heavy armor over medium.
With a 10 STR and a 12 DEX, you are not going to be stellar at hitting in melee or range (no range feats selected). All your "offense" is going to be based on spells cast at that point. Swapping out +2 WIS for +4 STR might change this dynamic immensely. You can swap in Spell Focus XXX for your most common saves to make up much of that difference in net effect. 1 Feat for +2/+2 on melee attacks (including touch attack attack rolls) isn't that bad at all.
If you are starting out at level 5, you might consider Craft Wand over Inscribe Scroll. It's a slightly cheaper "per charge" effect, albeit more expensive to get all you might need. Wands do not cause Attacks of Opportunity whereas Scrolls do.
So you'd suggest 16 wis, with 10 dex and 14 str?
Yeah going to pick negative channel, since death domain with undead I see it as a good one.Is the +2 to AB such a big deal?
True its +2dmg and +3 with 2h wpns. Are touch attacks dex or str?
Rory:
Good call on the wands vs scrolls. WAY better product.
Also, you hit my point on the head with why not heavy armor. Low Str and less movement is going to make getting your 'toon where you want with any alacrity very difficult. Other ways to buff AC that don't hurt you there.
What Domains are you looking at? There might be a little extra oomph in the domain abilities that we can't see here... (you had mentioned Death, possibly undead but the other?)
Rory:
Good call on the wands vs scrolls. WAY better product.Also, you hit my point on the head with why not heavy armor. Low Str and less movement is going to make getting your 'toon where you want with any alacrity very difficult. Other ways to buff AC that don't hurt you there.
What Domains are you looking at? There might be a little extra oomph in the domain abilities that we can't see here... (you had mentioned Death, possibly undead but the other?)
Death subdomain undead, the other one not sure, maybe taking theologian but the boost to death/undead aint great except the spells maybe as normal and the speciality spell with the metamagic aspect.
Maybe magic sub divine would be a good choice as its a nice buff.Also medium armor has also 20 feet speed instead of 30 so why get that?
Also chain shirt has +4 instead of +9 to ac so the 5 is a big difference.
Scrolls dont need UMD to use if I am correct.
What kind of battle tactics would you use for offense besides reach spells.
Also medium armor has also 20 feet speed instead of 30 so why get that?
Also chain shirt has +4 instead of +9 to ac so the 5 is a big difference.
Scrolls dont need UMD to use if I am correct.What kind of battle tactics would you use for offense besides reach spells.
Chain shirt is a light armor. You get to keep your 30 foot move speed.
Any magic item that is a spell completion item only needs a UMD check if the spell isn't on your list. If you can make it, you can use it with no issues.
Well first off Animate Dead as soon as you get some corpses. 10 HD of extra bodies? Win!
If you WANT to get mixed up then Deadly Juggernaught is you Huckleberry.
Sound burst doesn't do a lot of damage but it has the capacity to stun which is a great de-buff.
Spiritual weapon isn't terrible as a cast and forget damage dealer/nuisance for a few rounds.
Desecrate as a precursor to combat in a set area can make your Animate Dead even scarier (20 HD per spell? Yes please).
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Buy Mithril Agile Breastplate if you're hurting for AC. This will give you the same advantage of speed and lower your armorcheck penalties to the point your weak physical stats won't be crippling. Don't bother with combat casting. You shouldn't even consider getting into melee with your physical stats as is. Sit back and buff the party. It'll be a while before you get to play with the really destructive stuff.
Pick up Command Undead early as well as craft wand.
2 wands that will serve you well in battle will be Curemoderate Wounds and Sound Burst. Sound burst is generally not that great of a spell, but if you have a wand of it and can spam it it becomes a lot of fun. Since the damage is not based off of caster level it is the perfect attack wand. Just don't count on stunning.
All that said, first thing you should do is check with your GM to see if it is cool for your to be controlling undead in his campaign. He might put the breaks on that idea, as undead controlling can break certain games.
If you're going to worship Urgathoa then consider the Shatter Resolve Feat from Faiths of Corruption. It adds a Shaken effect to your Negative Energy Channeling if they fail their saves. Remember, two Shaken effects makes the enemy Frightened instead, which if you have the Quick Channel Feat means you can virtually end an encounter in one round if they fail both saves.
Oh, and get a Reliquary item, cast Desecrate, your channel DC just skyrocketed!
So you'd suggest 16 wis, with 10 dex and 14 str?
Yeah going to pick negative channel, since death domain with undead I see it as a good one.
Is the +2 to AB such a big deal?
True its +2dmg and +3 with 2h wpns. Are touch attacks dex or str?What spells are you wanting to use for "offense"? That's the question.
With an evil cleric, a lot of the nice spells are melee touch attack (uses STR). You can turn them into range spells with Reach Spell (uses DEX). At later levels, a lot of the nice offense spells come with a spell save (uses WIS).
Spiritual Weapon uses Wisdom as a second level spell, which might be fun for an initial staple offense spell if you wanted to pump WIS.
Inflict, Blind, Curse, Poison, etc. are melee touch spells which could then be turned into ranged spells with the Reach Spell feat.
S: 14 D: 13: CON: 14 I: 10 W: 17 Ch: 14 (1st level)
S: 14 D: 13: CON: 14 I: 10 W: 18 Ch: 14 (4th level)(you are getting +1 DEX and +4 STR for the price of -2 WIS, which I'd swap the DEX and CON if you went with Reach Spell)
As someone mentioned, Selective Channel will almost be required with negative energy Channel (or else you will harm your party).
I'd also recommend Command Undead if you are going to be working with undead. The potential there is extraordinary, and downright evil.
(I'm just mentioning possiblities, not making recommendations per se)
I am kind of reluctant to drop the wis below 16 at the start (+2 not counted), since I like the extra spells :) and am not going to make a supreme melee cleric I guess and yeah those touch spells seem a bit annoying since half are dex half str. But yes I am going to use them since negative channel clerics get them spont so a great way to damage.
Maybe somewhat mid range cleric my character can be with higher dex and still low str, since I do not intend to make him a melee cleric so much.
So could 10 str, 14 dex, 14 con, 16+2 wis, 10 int, 14 cha work?
Also yes thinking of selective channel since it helps those near me avoid the dmg entirely or I can give one the kiss of death was that ability which makes them gain hp from it instead of losing.
Seriously now that I think I forgot to mention so many things that could have made any posters easier to answer =/
What kind of battle tactics would you use for offense besides reach spells.Never plan to get into melee. You don't need to run, but let it come to you.
Spiritual Weapon: uses WIS to hit, and it gives you many attacks for one spell casting. This is "more fun" at lower levels when spells are at a higher premium.
Long Spear: reach weapon that will net you Attacks of Opportunity that don't cost you action economy, works good with a 14 STR, it also gives you a potential action if the combat is wrapping up
Channel Negative Energy: when you have multiple foes (with minimal allies) in the area effect, not super damage, but can be fun while not costing a valuable spell slot
Inflict Wounds: as well as many other melee touch attacks, all these nice touch attacks is why I like Reach Spell as a negative energy cleric.
Blind/Curse/Hold Person: and laugh at the flailing opponents
Sound Burst: 1d8 in an area, isn't much damage, but the stun effect is great!
Obscuring Mist: it can shrink the battlefield in a contest with ranged foes
Animate Dead: MINIONS, it's ALL about the minions, and it allows fellow party members to keep playing (well, sort of) their mook after dying until they can draft a new PC (some people may not appreciate your "assistance" in walking their corpse to the nearest resurrection, but if you rez them at 9th level, they might forgive and forget?)
Yeah have to the the undead with the DM, he did allow me to play a cleric of urgathoa once before with being evil and so on in a good party where I hid my alignment with a medallion but the campaign got on hold not long after since many players had military service so we started a new campaign. So can't say about the undead yet but one shall see.
All good spells that I see but I have a hard time understanding how obscuring mist works? It blocks vision 15 feets from you from all or? Do I see or am I blind also?
Propably won't pick spear since urgathoa is a scythe deity just for RP flavor but who knows maybe it will work out just fine.
Buy Mithril Agile Breastplate if you're hurting for AC. This will give you the same advantage of speed and lower your armorcheck penalties to the point your weak physical stats won't be crippling. Don't bother with combat casting. You shouldn't even consider getting into melee with your physical stats as is. Sit back and buff the party. It'll be a while before you get to play with the really destructive stuff.
Pick up Command Undead early as well as craft wand.
2 wands that will serve you well in battle will be Curemoderate Wounds and Sound Burst. Sound burst is generally not that great of a spell, but if you have a wand of it and can spam it it becomes a lot of fun. Since the damage is not based off of caster level it is the perfect attack wand. Just don't count on stunning.All that said, first thing you should do is check with your GM to see if it is cool for your to be controlling undead in his campaign. He might put the breaks on that idea, as undead controlling can break certain games.
But I wonder how does agile breastplate help me with the speed? Still 20 feet speed while wearing armor so what's the difference from full plate besides AC and the check penalties. Late can negate them with freedom of movement.
Yup not even assuming I am a super power at 5th lvl ^^ I think long term planning works out just fine and is fun.
I want to laugh when some the human rogue comes close and thinks my cleric is weak and he blasts the rogue with slay living spell etc. Though not sure I will spot him ^^ but well that's a story for then.
We have a non dungeon crawling campaign heavily with large battles where we control troops so my character can shine by slaying maybe the lvl 1 orcs with my negative energy and so on forth.
Also as said before have to check the undeads with the DM.
If you're going to worship Urgathoa then consider the Shatter Resolve Feat from Faiths of Corruption. It adds a Shaken effect to your Negative Energy Channeling if they fail their saves. Remember, two Shaken effects makes the enemy Frightened instead, which if you have the Quick Channel Feat means you can virtually end an encounter in one round if they fail both saves.
Oh, and get a Reliquary item, cast Desecrate, your channel DC just skyrocketed!
Shatter Resolve seems fantastic, yes shaken is great two rounds and it can be over truly with all the weaker enemies that leaves their BBEG standing or big powerful good guy since big bad good guy sounds quite conflicting but aren't paladins somewhat like that ;)?
Also how do reliquary items work? They have desecrate or consecrate on the items and make them holy symbols. Do they add +1 DC to channel negative or?
Since desecrate gives +3 to the DC does that give more or stack higher?
Reliquary items are classed as permanent fixtures dedicated to your deity, effectively doubling the effect from Desecrate. You now add six to the DC of channeled energy, Undead created in this area gain two additional hit points per hit die, and any Undead in the affected area gain a +2 bonus to hit, damage, and saves.
To create one, you need Craft Magic Arms and Armour, and Create Reliquary Arms and Armour Feats. When creating a regular magic weapon, armour or shield, you add one casting of consecrate or desecrate as part of the item casting proccess. When completed, the item is now a reliquary as well as the item you were originally going to create. There seems to be no additional price to this proccess, apart from the material components of Desecrate of course.
Why not Channel both Negative and Positive? Versatile Channel feat makes this possible.
Urgathoa kind of ruins that ^^ otherwise would love to.
Reliquary items are classed as permanent fixtures dedicated to your deity, effectively doubling the effect from Desecrate. You now add six to the DC of channeled energy, Undead created in this area gain two additional hit points per hit die, and any Undead in the affected area gain a +2 bonus to hit, damage, and saves.
To create one, you need Craft Magic Arms and Armour, and Create Reliquary Arms and Armour Feats. When creating a regular magic weapon, armour or shield, you add one casting of consecrate or desecrate as part of the item casting proccess. When completed, the item is now a reliquary as well as the item you were originally going to create. There seems to be no additional price to this proccess, apart from the material components of Desecrate of course.
Seems very feat heavy to do something like that, leadership feat could propably pay both of those in the long run. 2 feats is awful lot for a cleric =/ would that be like +9 to DC if it was a holy are desecrated since that's +6 without reliquary item then.
Is Urgathoa a must?
What about the god are you most interested in?
If another god followed these interests, would you consider it?
Urgathoa is my favorite like the avatar says :3
Also of course I would consider but I want death undead domain ^^
Please do suggest.
You don't have to take any feats at all. just commission an item or buy one that already exist from your church.
I'm not following your train of thought here. Desecrate normally adds +3 to the DC of channeling, and a permanent fixture (or the reliquary) doubles that for +6.
You don't have to take any feats at all. just commission an item or buy one that already exist from your church.
I'm not following your train of thought here. Desecrate normally adds +3 to the DC of channeling, and a permanent fixture (or the reliquary) doubles that for +6.
I mean in the desecrate spells thread, if it's a holy ground like a church which you desecrate it gives +6 already, so if you add a reliquary item to that does it turn to +9 then? since on a normal ground that's desecrated it's 3 without anything and +6 with a reliquary.
Other than Pharasma, here some Neutral Gods with the Death Domain.
Giant gods ^^ nah I'll stick to Urgathoa for RP flavor. Sad that can't maxed out of channel but you can't have everything now can you?
It does not stack, it merely allows you to use the more powerfull version of desecrate while in the middle of a quest/dungeon.
It does not stack, it merely allows you to use the more powerfull version of desecrate while in the middle of a quest/dungeon.
Alright, do you have any equipment/magic item suggestions for a negative cleric besides the phylactery of negative energy and the items you mentioned. ?
A Headband of Alluring Charisma to increase the DC further as well as uses per day. The only problem is that it shares the same item slot as the Phylactery of Negative Energy, but if you're willing to pay the additional GP's to have them combined, then it is probably worth it.
A Darkskull, while rather pricey, can net you an additional +4 to the DC, as well as other benefits.
That's all I can think of at the moment.
Another Feat an aspiring Commander of the Undead should seriously consider is the Undead Master Feat from Ultimate Magic.
A Headband of Alluring Charisma to increase the DC further as well as uses per day. The only problem is that it shares the same item slot as the Phylactery of Negative Energy, but if you're willing to pay the additional GP's to have them combined, then it is probably worth it.
A Darkskull, while rather pricey, can net you an additional +4 to the DC, as well as other benefits.
That's all I can think of at the moment.
Another Feat an aspiring Commander of the Undead should seriously consider is the Undead Master Feat from Ultimate Magic.
How can you have them combined into an item?
Using the guide to making magic items starting on page 548 of the core rulebook. To find the total cost multiply the most expensive item by 1.5 and then ad the cost of the second item. Or create a slotless item by doubling the total cost.
Or if that's too complicated, a Pink and Green Ioun Stone (8000gp's) gives you +2 to charisma.