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Do spells expire when their targets become illegal targets?
For example, I cannot cast mage armor on a corpse. A corpse is an object, not a creature, and thus an invalid target for mage armor. If I become a corpse (by dying, for example!), does my mage armor expire? If a breath of life spell returns me to life next round, is my mage armor gone?
If so, (and it seems to me that, by RAW and quite possibly RAI, this is the case), death - even a temporary death (which can become a quite common occurance at high levels) - remains a very serious threat to buff-dependant classes (read: most of them) at high levels, long after death becomes an easily-and-immediately-reversable inconvenience.
Looking for RAW and RAI interpretations of the rules, here. (In that order.)
I don't think they bothered to define stuff like this, and even death generally.
Its more or less a DM call whether or not spells continue to tick out- assumine they don't require concentration. (can't concentrate when you are dead, afterall)
If there is a rule out there about it, am sure someone will come along and quote it though- but I can't locate one.
That being said:
a Dm is really right either way they go.
As you pointed out, you are no longer a valid target for the spell and therefore the spell shouldn't work..
On the other hand- there's really nothing in the rules (that I know of) that covers what happens if you become an invalid target of the spell /after/ you have been targeted by it.
Or another view: you are dead, all effects on you immediately end (for better or worse).. of course I suppose this could lead to a potentially cheaper way to end some expensive effect or whatnot but I couldn't really think of any off the top of my head. :)
To fabricate an example:
If someone cast a debuff on you (say bestow curse) and you then get Spell Immunity or Greater Spell Immunity put on you.
you are now immune to all spells of X level or lower- does bestow curse cease to work?
Or another way to look at it:
Awaken only works on animals. Casting it on an animal turns it into a magical beast. If you can become an invalid target after the fact then you cast awaken and it immediately dispels itself since the creature is no longer a valid target.
And somewhere in the middle ground:
Alot of creatures have abilities that effect you while you are alive and keep effecting you after you are dead. (the various spawn abilities, primarily). This gives at least some headway for the idea that things effecting you during life keep on going even after you aren't. Otherwise the spawn abilities would fail.
Of course you could always just say they are the exception.. so.
Basically:
The rules are mute about it (as far as I could find).
I'm not sure if there is any RAI about it. Best you can do as a DM is just rule one way or the other and let the players know so they can act and plan accordingly.
Ok.
Done rambling.
-S
I think the default assumption, and I have no source text for this, is that spells with an ongoing duration stop functioning (but continue expiring) if their target becomes invalid, but resume functioning if the target becomes valid again. So your corpse loses the benefit of mage armor, but it comes back once you're raised, if the duration hasn't expired yet.
I think the default assumption, and I have no source text for this, is that spells with an ongoing duration stop functioning (but continue expiring) if their target becomes invalid, but resume functioning if the target becomes valid again. So your corpse loses the benefit of mage armor, but it comes back once you're raised, if the duration hasn't expired yet.
That's also how I'd handle it.
And this question is very relevant when the game has spells like Breath of Life. :)
These are good points. To reverse this: could you cast mage armor on a corpse, and then revive it with raise dead? Probably not, right? Magic missile requires a living target, not an object. Why would mage armor be different?
You can't cast mage armor or magic missle on a corpse.
And I like the "spell still on but non-functional" route. that keeps a corpse from benefitting from a spell while not hosing the guy who got a BoL too.
nice.
-S
Here's the way I look at it. Mage armor was cast on you while you were alive. Were you a legal target at the time of the casting? Yes, you were. That's the only time the spell cares if you're a legal target; after that, it's running down automatically. I'd rule it shuts down while you're dead but the duration continues to run down. When you're revived, the spell reactivates.
Now, more difficult : what if the dead wizard did cast some permanent spells on himself before he died ? For example, Darkvision + Permanency.
- Permanency is by definition permanent: it does not go away when the caster dies. So, the Darkvision spell will remain (ie continue expiring endlessly).
- In consequence, when the body of the mage becomes alive again - IF this is the same physical body that was the target of the permanent Darkvision spell, then the spell will resume functioning.
Also, regarding the question "Is a corpse a (dead) creature or an object ?", i believe that the body of a dead creature is not equivalent to an "object" :
- Obviously, a very recently dead corpse is still considered a creature (cf. very good point in above posts : if it was an object, the corpse could not be the target of a Breath of Life).
- Older corpses can still be brought to life with the appropriate spells, so to me, the status of such corpse appears clearly different of a generic "object".
What do you think ?
Thanks !
There are actually two questions: the death of the caster, and the death of the target. When the mage applied a buff on himself, both questions are relevant.
- Death of the target: the spell may stop functioning because it becomes pointless on a non-living creature (like Darkvision) but why should it expire immediately ? I think it works like a poison, that will kill again a character raised from the dead if it is still active at this moment.
- Death of the caster : i believe that only spells that involve a continuous relationship between the effect and the caster (like, need to concentrate, or keep line of sight, etc) should be interrupted by death. Other spells had their magical energy given once for all at the moment they were cast, afterwards the caster is no longer involved: the spells will expire normally whatever happens to the him.
It depends on the spell. Spells from the Transmutation school would more likely continue to function than Entchantment spells.