Hey, guys. So, I'm playing the Way of the Wicked campaign, and without getting too spoiler-y I'm just gonna say that my Social Sorcerer is getting more involved with religious stuffs. So I decided that it would be really, really awesome to take some levels of Mystic Theurge. And thankfully, I'm low enough level that I can do it. Right now I'm Sorc 4, and I need to level up to six. I'm gonna take Oracle since the Charisma really melds with Sorc, and because I hate having to prepare spells ahead of time. :P
So basically, here's the deal. I need help deciding on Curses/Mysteries/Spell Selections for my Oracle. I want to make the transfer from Sorc4 to Mystic Theurge as painless as possible. Things to note about my character:
20 Charisma, Lawful Evil, focused on Controlling and buffing/debuffing (pit spells are especially fun) My feats so far are Skill Focus: Bluff and Knowledge Arcana, Eldritch Heritage (to get a familiar. Snake, of course), and I want to take Leadership at character level 7. I'm the Rakshasa bloodline for sorcerer, and I'm really open to anything as long as it's thematic, cool, and/or powerful.
TL;DR Help me make a Mystic Theurge from Sorc 4 to 20th level. Thanks!
Please post your full current build. It really will help.
Most everyone here will recommend against MT for the Sorc/Oracle lineup. You stay at 2nd level spells for a VERY long time in order to get the second set. I would honestly recommend doing the religion stuff as an RP thing only and continuing down your Sorc line.
Important note: You will not have 3rd level spells until CL10. Ow. Alternatively, you could have 5th level spells then for the Sorc.
not to mention the oracle is not particularly religious in any way.
you're just a a dude who gets a bunch of powers and divine spellcasting.
you don't have to believe in any gods whatsoever,
your powers can't be taken away, any more than a sorcerors' can.
I like Mystic Theurge.
In the original Conan the Barbarian movie, Thulsa Doom was a Sorcerer, but that didn't prevent him from being at the head of a very influent and powerful cult. He was so charismatic (a bit like your character) that his disciples would commit suicide on his demand. This, my friend, is the power of flesh, much more stronger than the secret of steel. ;)
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As someone who has played a Sorcerer/Oracle/Mystic Theurge, I have to regretfully advise against it. While the vast array of spells to choose from would make a high level wizard jealous, your spells will simply lag too far behind the party level to pack the punch you'll need. Between the problem of beating spell resistance and not being able to pull out a really high DC spell on a target when you need it, you're left with being a healer/buffer and perhaps debuffer. If you're OK with that, then go for it -- that was the character I created. However, it gets boring at times. It sounds like you have an interesting character concept and are doing well with it. I'd say stick with it and go Sorcerer all the way.
If you're still set on the Sor/Or/MT, then the level progression is obvious: 4 levels of Oracle followed by 10 levels of Mystic Theurge. The last two levels, if the campaign goes that far, can be either Sorcerer or Oracle, whichever one you have grown to love more. Spell selection will be the same for your Sorcerer spells, though you should lean towards spells that allow no save or buff you or your group. The same goes for Oracle spells, though you'll have plenty of buffer spells to pick from.
One small, amusing benefit of the Sor/Or/MT is the high number of 0-level spells you get. By 10th level or so you can detect just about everything and do a ridiculous number of minor magical things. It rarely helps in combat, but for roleplaying situations and for creative players having that many 0-level effects at will is a good time.
There is another reason I vehemently oppose Sorc/Orc/MT.
Whereas the major benefits of being a wizard and a cleric is their spells. The sorcerer and oracle compensate their lacking in the spellcasting department with superior class abilities. A W/C/MT loses out on channeling and lv8 domain/school powers, while a S/O/MT loses out on a truckload of feats, revelations, bonus spells and bloodline powers.
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What about sticking with Sorcerer, investing in UMD and faking it with concealed clerical wands, bluffs and whatnot?
Your follower could be an actual cleric and could either be in on the scheme (and follow a trickster god, and you're both impersonating clerics of another stripe) or a dupe that you have charmed somehow.
OK, OK. I get it. Bad idea, not optimized, etc. And I know I COULD just lead a cult (that's actually what my character did for a while) but I think it would be so much cooler to be divine. So ASSUMING I'm going to do it, and ASSUMING I'm OK with not being a huge damage dealer (and instead being a controller/buffer) what would you guys suggest? I'll see if I can post the full build later today.
Honestly, I've been struggling to come up with a reasonable choice of Mystery to fit the character, let alone anything else. I have actually been thinking about it a lot and the LE thing throws me, particularly with the "controller" part. The Cleric/Oracle spell list doesn't have nearly as much control as the Sorc/Wiz list. I couldn't really grab at anything that fit thematically with your Eldritch Heritage, either.
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Honestly, I don't see any synergy between the classes other than main casting ability.
The struggle is, until 9th level, your best buffs are going to be bull's strength etc. and your best debuffs are what, darkness? Web? At 9th, you'll get Stinking cloud or something when your contemporaries are pitching Magic Jar or Cloudkill or Summon monster V to summon 1d4+1 dretches, who can all pitch stinking clouds, or a Babau who can do Darkness and dispel magic at will.
If you have your heart set on divine casting, I'd look at a one level dip for wands and two crappy 1st level spells or, probably even better, to take the Pathfinder Savant PrC, which allows you to take divine spells with your sorcerer slots.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/pathfinder -savant
The PF Savant has some interesting aspects and isn't a 4 level hit like your MT idea is.
OK, OK. I get it. Bad idea, not optimized, etc. And I know I COULD just lead a cult (that's actually what my character did for a while) but I think it would be so much cooler to be divine. So ASSUMING I'm going to do it, and ASSUMING I'm OK with not being a huge damage dealer (and instead being a controller/buffer) what would you guys suggest? I'll see if I can post the full build later today.
Hey there! Since you've already gone ahead and addressed all the downsides of what you're wanting to do, let's go ahead and try to get you a decent build.
Mystery seems fairly straight forward. You want to grab a mystery with a few good early spells and access to some revelations that won't suck when you only have 4 levels of oracle. Heavens is a good choice if you grab Awesome Display, which should work on every spell you cast by RAW. You won't gain access to some of those spells through oracle, but the best Illusion: Pattern spells are sorcerer anyways. You can also grab Moonlight Bridge for some additional utility. Lore gets you Sidestep secret, which helps with your poor AC. Lorekeeper is another good one that doesn't care about your level. Nature offers Nature's Whispers for AC, but there isn't much else to boost you up.
You absolutely need to get the trait Magical Knack if you don't already have it. If your DM is willing to let you take it twice you should- your caster level is going to suffer, and that'll be rough. Also try to get an Orange Prism Ioun Stone as soon as possible- it's a +1 caster level to both your casting classes, and comes with a 30k price tag. It'll be a big help if you can afford it. If your DM is willing to let you go with 3.5 material you can take Practiced Caster twice to fully shore up your caster levels, but many DMs are sketchy about that stuff.
For spells you need to be picky, especially if you want to play offense. Pick a single school of magic and consider grabbing Spell Focus and it's older sister to help keep your DCs relevant. Continue with your Arcane Heritage tree to get the 15th level ability that adds an additional +2 to a single school of magic- it'll be amazing.
Varisian Tattoo adds a another +1 caster level to a single school of magic.