Am I the only one?
I was extremely disappointed when I heard that this game was going to try for a kid friendly angle and avoid a mature rating like it was the f!&&ing plague. I have a whole heap of issues with this, and I'd like to make them clear, in the hopes that others will agree and push for a more mature game.
Problem #1: I don't want to pay PFO only for them to tell me what I can and can't say. I want to be part of a game based on free expression. Sure, words like F#~# and S*#$ take me out of the fantasy world a little bit, but there will surely be Out of Character chat channels and the like. The age written on my state issued ID suggests that I'm a grown man, and I don't want to be treated like a child.
Problem #2: Young children have little to offer in terms of storytelling. I think if you want people to set up kingdoms and forge epic dramas and the like, you should have a game full of mature, creative people.
Problem #3: Young children are not the target demographic of PFO. Old timers who know about eve want in on this game. Tabletop RPG enthusiasts (who are usually at least in their teens) want in on this game. I'm sure there are plenty of kids who want in, but this isn't their game. This isn't WoW or TOR. Sure, I have no problem with them playing, but Goblinworks shouldn't sacrifice the freedoms of mature players to allow for more immature players.
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
They aren't aiming at purely young children. They are aiming at teenagers, whom are still children. Frankly, I'm tired of every game that comes out has to be super gory, violent, and/or sexualized. A game doesn't need all that to be enjoyable. And there is nothing stopping adults from playing. You want an adult game, this isn't for you.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Odds are the rating is going to be the same as every other MMO, with the side note of "Experience may vary due to online play" or whatever the variant is there.
Now as far as things like language filters etc... who knows, they might do a language filter, they might make it mandatory or they could make it an option. IMO optional grants a best of both worlds route to go.
As far as other player content etc... in reality that is entirely up to the players how they want to speak in guild/party chat, I highly doubt the moderators etc... will have an issue with it. In general assuming players keep it within a semi private channel of like minded individuals, that those who dislike can leave, that is also a best of both worlds situation. It doesn't matter what anyone says so long as no-one is forced to stay in an area where they must hear it. Chartered companies can easilly put an 18+ requirement with little to no conflict of interest.
Now when it comes to NPC chatter etc... There is little to no reason to lace it with profanity or do anything that would mandate the game to be raised to an M rating.
Just like pathfinder tabletop etc... there is no good reason for the modules to contain an extreme amount of adult content, but no reason that the players can't include whatever they feel like is appropriate for their group.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Am I the only one?
I was extremely disappointed when I heard that this game was going to try for a kid friendly angle and avoid a mature rating like it was the f$@~ing plague. I have a whole heap of issues with this, and I'd like to make them clear, in the hopes that others will agree and push for a more mature game.
Problem #1: I don't want to pay PFO only for them to tell me what I can and can't say. I want to be part of a game based on free expression. Sure, words like F@#* and S&@@ take me out of the fantasy world a little bit, but there will surely be Out of Character chat channels and the like. The age written on my state issued ID suggests that I'm a grown man, and I don't want to be treated like a child.
Problem #2: Young children have little to offer in terms of storytelling. I think if you want people to set up kingdoms and forge epic dramas and the like, you should have a game full of mature, creative people.
Problem #3: Young children are not the target demographic of PFO. Old timers who know about eve want in on this game. Tabletop RPG enthusiasts (who are usually at least in their teens) want in on this game. Sure, I'm sure there are plenty of kids who want in, but this isn't their game.
You actually bring up some good points. I wouldn't say #1 is much of an issue because usually these games just have an optional profanity filter. As long as we can easily turn it off, I don't mind it's existence. I personally consider profanity filters ridiculous because even though constant profanity is kind of ridiculous, anyone who lives in the real world is going to be exposed to it. Including any child not raised under a rock. I would rather just know what people are saying then protect myself from a fact of life.
@Problem#2: This is so true, and I never even thought about it before. Younger audiences tend not to bring much to a roleplay game. In terms of deep story, and community maturity. There are a few exceptions to the rule but overall their RP is going to be centered around self-glorification or sappy teenage romance, and there is going to be disproportionate numbers of them camping noob-spawns. Because of that we may be better off shooting for a "mature" rating simply to discourage a younger audience, making the game more enjoyable for it's target demographic.
Overall though, most "mature" content seems to be centered around teenagers. Over the top gore, nudity, etc. These are all things I have seen in mature games that only really tend to enhance the game for the very teenagers not allowed to see such content. Most gamers who are actually mature, either don't want it, or don't care about it.
What I would really love to see instead is more mature issues and content. We shouldn't be afraid to have smoke filled taverns or alcohol consumption. We shouldn't be afraid to include serious issues in game such as slavery or mentioning and acknowledging the existence of evil acts that lead to things like half-orcs. (If you don't understand what I am talking about with that reference you probably don't need to.)
I absolutely DO NOT, want to see an in your face "Lets see how many inappropriate over the top grotesque things we can fit in-game!" But on the other hand I really don't want to see the game fearful of talking about and having the players confront serious issues geared toward a mature audience. I want to see a real world, with real suffering and real problems, and difficult decisions on how to deal with them.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
From my experience, most roleplaying communities moderate themselves. Many guilds exclude children/teens, and include more adult themes. It's better for the game to be more middle-ground, in terms of maturity, and allow guilds to fulfill roles that satisfy groups on either side of the spectrum.
And I'd disagree about teenagers being the problem. Most of the teenagers I've interacted with in the roleplaying community are mature - the ones that tend to be interested in RP aren't the ones that seem to be described here. Full disclosure, I was one myself three years ago, RPing from 13-19 in Anarchy Online, SWG, EQ2, and LotRO. Outside of the RP community - sure, it's questionable - but I'd still argue that the teens aren't much worse than the tweens, threens, forteens, etc. From personal experience (of the people whose age was known to me) my guild has had more problems with adults than kids.
And regardless of age, there's always /ignore. It may be a more complicated issue in a PVP environment, but it sounds like GW is building systems into the game to limit griefing. I'm going to put my trust in these systems before I ask for any premature discrimination.
PFO is a niche game. It's going to attract roleplayers. The fact that this game is mostly going to attract the folks interested in community-building and storytelling will hopefully keep the game's maturity bar pretty high.
As for how the game could handle mature issues, I agree with Andius. I'd prefer to see drug/alcohol use and complicated social issues be the 'mature content', as opposed to rando-boob. I'm not a prude, but I guess I've never felt that my game experience would be significantly enhanced by pixelated parts. If PFO becomes the social/RP experience it's shaping up in concept to be, these social issues could play pivotal roles in determining how certain companies function, and interact with one another.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Is a 'mature' game one in which players fill the chat with immature overuse of profanity? Or one that makes violence gratuitous?
Neither. What I would like to see is this:
If the Goblinworks team is debating "Should we allow the owning of slave's in-game?" they should come at it from the approach of. Is it worth the development time, is it appropriate to the setting, will it enhance the players experience etc. Not "Will this be appropriate for a teen rated game?" I would also like rather to see different kinds of slavery. Sure robbing people from homes to sell them for labor is wrong but what about forced labor for violent criminals?
When they are deciding whether or not there will be a brothel in Thornkeep. Same thing. I personally don't want to see a brothel geared around players getting cheap thrills and dark screen with kissing noises, but I would like to see a paladin have to choose between putting people out of work, or freeing them from a lifestyle that debases their self-value.
I want to see berserkers ingesting hallucinogen to increase the resistance to pain and I want to see your player's barbarian have to choose what lengths he is willing to go to in order to increase his power.
When we are talking about the origin of half-orcs I don't want the sugar coated "When a human and an orc love eachother very much..."
I could care less about whether when you hit your enemy if their head goes flying off like a blood-spurting rocket or if when you take off all your armor there is nothing underneath. That kind of "mature" content is cheap thrills geared for teenagers for sure. But that is not he only things that are considered in the rating.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I've already gone into detail in other threads, but for the record I am far more interested in encouraging Paizo and Goblinworks to stay true to their already declared intention to make a game that is suitable for young teens. I remember being around that age when I first got into D&D and Ultima IV, and I have a daughter around that age now who deserves a chance to play without being affronted with 'M' rated sex, language, and violence.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And just in case anyone missed it, when I talk about Paizo's and Goblinworks' stated intention, I'm talking about this:
The Pathfinder brand will not appear on products targeted for mature audiences only. Period.
@Thane9, very well said.
I concur.
Frankly, I'm quite tired of the bogus idea that's been propagated in recent years that all things made with the idea of letting them be accessible to children are useless, worthless, and unworthy of use by adults. I see it way too often in movies - "Oh no, we might get a G or PG rating and no one will want to see our movie, quick throw in a random swear word or partial nudity so we get bumped up!"
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Generally people who feel they must be allowed to use excessive profanity or else they are being stiffled in some way are either lacking in intellect or maturity. Profanity is fine and normal if used sparingly and appropriately. It is not, however, necessary for fantasy gaming. Throw some #@%!! out there and imagine the profanity if you must in order to have fun.
I was extremely disappointed when I heard that this game was going to try for a kid friendly angle and avoid a mature rating like it was the f@$$ing plague. I have a whole heap of issues with this, and I'd like to make them clear, in the hopes that others will agree and push for a more mature game.
Problem #1: I don't want to pay PFO only for them to tell me what I can and can't say. I want to be part of a game based on free expression. Sure, words like F&!! and S@~# take me out of the fantasy world a little bit, but there will surely be Out of Character chat channels and the like. The age written on my state issued ID suggests that I'm a grown man, and I don't want to be treated like a child.
So...you have a problem with watching your mouth in a social setting that generally accepts profanity as being crass and unnecessary.
Problem #2: Young children have little to offer in terms of storytelling. I think if you want people to set up kingdoms and forge epic dramas and the like, you should have a game full of mature, creative people.
Sometimes true, not always. My job requires me to spend time around kids, and some of them are quite creative if they can get into the project at hand. I'd almost expect more risk of poor storytelling from older players who are only there to hack and slash.
Problem #3: Young children are not the target demographic of PFO. Old timers who know about eve want in on this game. Tabletop RPG enthusiasts (who are usually at least in their teens) want in on this game. I'm sure there are plenty of kids who want in, but this isn't their game. This isn't WoW or TOR. Sure, I have no problem with them playing, but Goblinworks shouldn't sacrifice the freedoms of mature players to allow for more immature players.
Define young. Define immature. Avoiding a mature rating could simple mean garnering a teen one. Problem solved; your teen target audience is retained.
What freedoms? Cutting out a little unnecessary gore or implementing a "please try not to swear" policy is an infringement on rights? Quite honestly, from your posts, I would say you're exactly the kind of immature player this game should exclude.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
I for one would love to see mature content meaningfully explored: shades of grey morality, LG characters forced to choose between LN and CG actions, choices where othering is apparent, and other choices that require a solid understanding of moral philosophy to understand.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Oh, I agree. Mature content in the sense of deep moral quandaries and advanced storytelling is amazing. But it doesn't require an M rating. There are actually a number of things aimed at younger audiences that do at least venture into mature things - the Airbender franchise, for one. And they don't require gratuitous sex and gore to do so.
Goblinworks Founder
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm 33 years old and to be honest I have little interest in games targeted at mature audience. Age of Conan was classified as 18+ in some countries and the actual content it represented was nothing compared to the gore from L4D and the sexual themes were very basic and not necessarily needed at all. Not only this but it fostered a toxic community of adults behaving like sociopaths or spoilt children. I would rather play a game aimed at a larger audience that introduces the next generation to sandbox gaming. Thane9 has made the best points to this discussion. As long as pathfinder doesn't turn into hogwarts in Golarion I will be happy. If Goblinworks does this game right we can hopefully see the next generation of gamers take an interest in sandbox MMOs and pave the way for some real change to a stagnated market.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As long as pathfinder doesn't turn into hogwarts in Golarion I will be happy.
And even then, there were some dark themes to be had there. Murder, suicide, vengeance, despair, torture. And some redemptive storytelling as well, such as sacrifice, undying love, loyalty, and devotion to a cause.
As long as GoblinWorks lets us create a world of grand stories, with a multitude of players, then I'll be happy.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
There are things that in canon Golarion are DEFINITELY deserving of an Adult only rating... *cough* Ogres *cough*
That said, there is no way in hell this game can possibly be rated under T.
Even if you keep out excessive blood and gore and include a language filter, theres no way that worlds of undeath and chaos could ever drop under that rating.
Now it's a given that kids under the 'appropriate' ages will play games like this, but that's not what ESRB is for. If you can assume everyone involved is about 14, even if those kids aren't getting involved in some of the grittier dark fantasy RPs going on, they probably won't NEGATIVELY impact the game.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Problem#2: This is so true, and I never even thought about it before. Younger audiences tend not to bring much to a roleplay game. In terms of deep story, and community maturity. There are a few exceptions to the rule but overall their RP is going to be centered around self-glorification or sappy teenage romance, and there is going to be disproportionate numbers of them camping noob-spawns. Because of that we may be better off shooting for a "mature" rating simply to discourage a younger audience, making the game more enjoyable for it's target demographic.People who think that the essential part of their character is spewing forth like a volcanic sewer main, don't bring that much depth to their roleplaying either.
Yes swear words light up parts of the brain iirc so should only be used sparingly and with control, imo: ie better absent than present.
More the case the ppl who are social hubs, organisers, constructively participatory motivation, ppl & their projects are content for other people. So age is only indirectly relevant possibly & entertainment producers do a disservice underestimating people's range of reactions imo
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I would say the simplest easiest way to debunk the entire mature rating = mature players discussion. Play any M rated FPS on xbox live or playstation network with voice chat. Within 30 seconds you will discover 2 major things.
1. the rating of the game has little to no impact on the ages of the people playing the games. There is no shortage of 13 year olds who's parents will buy a game regardless of the ESRB rating. Either because they don't know/understand the rating system, or because they don't particularly feel that violence is going to harm their children. Most of these parents would freak out if they discovered there was nudity, but in general they don't pay attention to why the rating is there anyway, assume the M means violence and allow the kid to play the game unsupervised, which actually leads to more immature people playing, because sneaking a peak at boobs is a bigger deal to less mature people.
2. The age of the players has little impact on the maturity of the players. There is no shortage of times where I have heard very respectful likable 13-17 year olds, and no shortage of times I have heard 35 year olds who have very long discussions about how my mom is.
Attempting to control the maturity of the players has more to do with the amount of success that comes from co-operation, organization etc... Not the age of the players who join, nor the games rating.
Now in some things there is enhancement from such. Take game of thrones. The maturity of the series, comes from the complicated plot, the depth of the subplots etc... If the nudity and gratuitious violence were removed from game of thrones, I would bet that odds are there would in fact be LESS 13 year olds watching the show with their parents permission, than there are sneaking to watch the show currently.
As long as pathfinder doesn't turn into hogwarts in Golarion I will be happy.And even then, there were some dark themes to be had there. Murder, suicide, vengeance, despair, torture. And some redemptive storytelling as well, such as sacrifice, undying love, loyalty, and devotion to a cause.
If this turns into Harry Potter of Galorion I now know who to blame. Stop it, that franchise isn't cool.
|
I definitively agree with most of this thread. Really raunchy content such as sexual violence and excessive gore would only bring less mature players, who would play it only for that content. As much as I hate to admit it, World of Warcraft got it right as far as this subject goes: no excessive gore, no overt sexual themes, and an optional language filter for those whose ears (eyes?) are hurt by profanity.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Generally people who feel they must be allowed to use excessive profanity or else they are being stiffled in some way are either lacking in intellect or maturity. Profanity is fine and normal if used sparingly and appropriately. It is not, however, necessary for fantasy gaming. Throw some #@%!! out there and imagine the profanity if you must in order to have fun.
Even Runescape has now made made profanity filters optional. It will not up the games rating to mature. There is a difference between filtering chat and not having profanity in the actual text and voice overs of the game.
There is a reason they did that. Profanity filters are utterly ridiculous. On our Freelancer server if you swore you got a warning or two and then it upped into temporary or even permanent bans. I was fine with that. I hate profanity filters and here is why:
First off profanity filters tend to be buggy, useless, and a joke. In Runescape it used to be that saying the word "cook" to begin a sentence was censored. However within the last year it was true, and it may still be true that saying the word "%$S!heads" (With the first 4 letters being a word that rhymes with a waterfowl) was not censored.
Second off it is ridiculous that I had to just censor myself while trying to explain that point. I'm trying to make a point and I can't even express it properly because people somehow feel that simple words will harm them. I'm not trying to be vulgar or crude, I'm just trying to explain a point of view clearly and concisely, and I don't feel that should offend people. We don't even have a logical measure for what profanity is, it's just words that people find offensive. I personally hate the phrases "non-conformist", "gentlemen's club", and "clean shaven" should we censor them too?
Third off most profanity filters I have encountered censor websites so that I can't direct you to a gold buying site, or a pornography site. (Is it ok if I say that? I would hate for it to be something censored.) The problem is when I am telling my new member "Go register on gl-gamers.net" I don't want to tell them "Go register on %^$#!(@." Censors should NEVER block my ability to get things done effectively.
|
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It has been shown that it is mathematically impossible for a regex-based filter to filter all variants of nontrivial undesired text without filtering at least some harmless or desirable text. The problem has been named the Scunthorpe problem, after a town which illustrates the issue.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
This industry needs to be responsible. This industry needs to hold itself to a higher standard than most.
I agree. I was born in 1988, and had to hide the fact that I played Magic the Gathering in highschool and did not get to experience D&D until college because my mom said it was Satanic. A position she still maintains.
The difference between me and my mom isn't that we don't follow the same religion. It's that I can understand the difference between fantasy and reality and don't consider a game that deals with magical forces on par with drawing pentagrams and trying to summon demonic forces in your basement. Nor do I consider games in which demons are clearly portrayed as evil and you fight against them to be glorification of evil.
So yes, the industry does need to be responsible. It needs to not cow to ignorant people who don't even understand why they hate what they hate. It needs to not bow down to pressure from outside sources and instead deliver the products it's customers want and deserve.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I remember the years of church funded book burnings. I remember my mom getting a call from my best friend's mom telling her that I could no longer play with him any more. I remember the hate.
This industry needs to be responsible. This industry needs to hold itself to a higher standard than most. Why? So we don't repeat the past.
But it wasn't the industry's fault, the whole issue was caused by nutty people fearing an imaginary evil force coming for their kids. The industry shouldn't be held hostage by religious extremists that don't like the idea of demons and naughty language.
Frankly, I don't care which way they go with the game maturity-wise (swearing, gore, slavery, these things concern me not), but I'd rather the decision be based on what will make for the best game possible, not the least offensive game possible.
my mom said I was Satanic. A position she still maintains.
this may be the funniest thing I read all day.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
my mom said I was Satanic. A position she still maintains.this may be the funniest thing I read all day.
My mom thought the same thing. It wasn't until she happened to witness me and my friends playing together (I had not told her WHAT we were playing, just that we were 'playing a game') that she realized she was wrong.
|
Goblinworks Founder
|
It has been shown that it is mathematically impossible for a regex-based filter to filter all variants of nontrivial undesired text without filtering at least some harmless or desirable text. The problem has been named the Scunthorpe problem, after a town which illustrates the issue.
I laughed out loud so hard I scared my puss..I mean cat.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I'm trying to make a point and I can't even express it properly because people somehow feel that simple words will harm them.
This is a weak argument, and relies on misrepresenting the actual argument against allowing profanity.
Just imagine someone making the exact same point about images, but saying "I can't because people somehow feel that graphic descriptions of the images found on goatse will harm them." Or saying "I can't because people somehow feel that graphic images of real people really dying in horrific accidents will hurt them."
It's fine if you don't share the same values as the community in which you live. It's kind of rude to do things in public that really bother a lot of people in that community just because those things don't bother you.
If this turns into Harry Potter of Galorion I now know who to blame. Stop it, that franchise isn't cool.As long as pathfinder doesn't turn into hogwarts in Golarion I will be happy.And even then, there were some dark themes to be had there. Murder, suicide, vengeance, despair, torture. And some redemptive storytelling as well, such as sacrifice, undying love, loyalty, and devotion to a cause.
And that would be the point sailing right over your head sir.
My mom thought the same thing. It wasn't until she happened to witness me and my friends playing together (I had not told her WHAT we were playing, just that we were 'playing a game') that she realized she was wrong.my mom said I was Satanic. A position she still maintains.this may be the funniest thing I read all day.
Ok maybe we are dealing with non-native speakers, but to say "My mom said I was satanic" means your mom was sleeping with lucifer. She can call you a satanist, but not satanic. An individual can not be satanic, only things can be. Clearly I hit my head too much as a child...
Ok maybe we are dealing with non-native speakers, but to say "My mom said I was satanic" means your mom was sleeping with lucifer. She can call you a satanist, but not satanic. An individual can not be satanic, only things can be. Clearly I hit my head too much as a child...My mom thought the same thing. It wasn't until she happened to witness me and my friends playing together (I had not told her WHAT we were playing, just that we were 'playing a game') that she realized she was wrong.my mom said I was Satanic. A position she still maintains.this may be the funniest thing I read all day.
I've seen the two used interchangeably for years.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If this turns into Harry Potter of Galorion I now know who to blame. Stop it, that franchise isn't cool.As long as pathfinder doesn't turn into hogwarts in Golarion I will be happy.And even then, there were some dark themes to be had there. Murder, suicide, vengeance, despair, torture. And some redemptive storytelling as well, such as sacrifice, undying love, loyalty, and devotion to a cause.
Yeah, it presents some pretty mature themes to a younger audience without excessive swearing. Clearly not your thing.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Ok maybe we are dealing with non-native speakers, but to say "My mom said I was satanic" means your mom was sleeping with lucifer. She can call you a satanist, but not satanic. An individual can not be satanic, only things can be. Clearly I hit my head too much as a child...My mom thought the same thing. It wasn't until she happened to witness me and my friends playing together (I had not told her WHAT we were playing, just that we were 'playing a game') that she realized she was wrong.my mom said I was Satanic. A position she still maintains.this may be the funniest thing I read all day.
Do we really need to explain the concept of a typo to you? You cut off the first part of that sentence but given the context it was in, and the fact I went back and fixed it, it should be pretty clear what I was intending to say.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I'm trying to make a point and I can't even express it properly because people somehow feel that simple words will harm them.This is a weak argument, and relies on misrepresenting the actual argument against allowing profanity.
Just imagine someone making the exact same point about images, but saying "I can't because people somehow feel that graphic descriptions of the images found on goatse will harm them." Or saying "I can't because people somehow feel that graphic images of real people really dying in horrific accidents will hurt them."
It's fine if you don't share the same values as the community in which you live. It's kind of rude to do things in public that really bother a lot of people in that community just because those things don't bother you.
Even if those people have been exposed to those same images thousands, or tens of thousands, or probably hundreds of thousands of times to the point that the only reason they are offensive is they consciously make an effort to object to them even though they no longer find them shocking? Mainly because only a MINORITY actually do care about their useage. It's not like these words are meant to bring horrific ideas and images into your head, it's just that your mommy and schoolteacher told you not to say them.
No. If I need to use them to get my point across it is just ignorant to object to them at that point. There is a difference between sitting there spitting them out every other word, and using a direct quotation or discussing the words themselves.
This all reminds me of a talkshow host who was labeled as a "racist" because they said a racial slur in the the context of "Why would people say ******* when talking about themselves?"
It is just utter ridiculousness. People's words need to be weighed by the intent of what they mean to convey. I would far rather have someone say to me "Man, that is ****ing awesome!" then many of the things I've seen expressed without the use of profanity throughout many games.
No. If I need to use them to get my point across it is just ignorant to object to them at that point.
The question then becomes why do you think you need them to make your point?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Andius, I like you, and I don't want to say something that's going to cause conflict between us, but you're being very dismissive and willfully ignorant of the actual objection when you paint the objection as something as silly as "it's just that your mommy and schoolteacher told you not to say them."
I changed a lot when I got married and had a kid, and the world I see at 40+ is not the same as the world I saw at 24.
You can either choose to accept that rational people have rational reasons for objecting to rampant profanity and graphic sex and violence in the public square, or you can continue to insist that you know our true motives and that those motives are irrational. You Decide.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
No. If I need to use them to get my point across it is just ignorant to object to them at that point.The question then becomes why do you think you need them to make your point?
Because I don't want to spend half a sentence explaining what word I am talking about when I can use use the word.
I guess I don't NEED to use them at that point, but if you clearly if you understand what I mean when I say "the f word" you are very familiar with the word, and it's usage isn't going to harm you. If anyone DOESN'T understand what I just meant please raise your hand.
(Somehow I think even if this room was filled with ten year olds, not a single honest hand would raise.)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
You can either choose to accept that rational people have rational reasons for objecting to rampant profanity and graphic sex and violence in the public square, or you can continue to insist that you know our true motives...
You are separating issues. Nowhere in this topic have I condoned graphic violence or sex in the public square OR in this game. In-fact I specifically referred to the latter two as "cheap thrills".
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
So yes, the industry does need to be responsible. It needs to not cow to ignorant people who don't even understand why they hate what they hate.
I guess I misunderstood.
It sounded like you were saying the industry in general, and PFO in particular, needed to quit worrying about the concerns of people who were opposed to rampant profanity and graphic sex and violence, and wanted there to be community standards in place to ensure those things don't become rampant.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
...What I would really love to see instead is more mature issues and content. We shouldn't be afraid to have smoke filled taverns or alcohol consumption. We shouldn't be afraid to include serious issues in game such as slavery or mentioning and acknowledging the existence of evil acts that lead to things like half-orcs. (If you don't understand what I am talking about with that reference you probably don't need to.)
I absolutely DO NOT, want to see an in your face "Lets see how many inappropriate over the top grotesque things we can fit in-game!" But on the other hand I really don't want to see the game fearful of talking about and having the players confront serious issues geared toward a mature audience. I want to see a real world, with real suffering and real problems, and difficult decisions on how to deal with them.
What concerns me is things like I saw in The old Republic. People saying things like "They should make one of your companions on the imperial side a slave." and other people saying.
"Nooooo! Don't put slavery in a game for my children!"
So people don't mind if their child force chokes someone but they do mind if they own a slave in a game?
I don't want to see every issue in this game endure that kind of treatment. Any game that allows you to kill anything that doesn't have googly eyes should confront adult issues, because killing people is an adult issue.