Negative Energy Affinity and Channel Energy

[darth_borehd]

We have a party of a human, an elf, a halfling, and two dhampirs. They are fighting an evil cleric with undead minions. Assume everybody is within 30' of each other.

So if the human cleric channels positive energy to heal the other party members, does he hurt the dhampirs?

If he channels positive energy to hurt undead instead, would that heal the dhampirs at the same time?

If the evil cleric channels negative energy to heal his undead minions, would it also heal the two dhampirs?

If the evil cleric instead channeled negative energy to hurt the other party members, would he also heal the dhampirs?

If the dhampirs would be inadvertently affected in any of the situations, can either cleric choose to exclude them from the effect?

[blackbloodtroll]

Whether with positive or negative, you can only heal, or harm, not both.

[darth_borehd]

So if you heal, you have to heal combatants on the opposing side if they are in your range?

[Cpt_kirstov]

darth_borehd wrote:

1)So if the human cleric channels positive energy to heal the other party members, does he hurt the dhampirs?

2) If he channels positive energy to hurt undead instead, would that heal the dhampirs at the same time?

3)If the evil cleric channels negative energy to heal his undead minions, would it also heal the two dhampirs?

4)If the evil cleric instead channeled negative energy to hurt the other party members, would he also heal the dhampirs?

5)If the dhampirs would be inadvertently affected in any of the situations, can either cleric choose to exclude them from the effect?

1)No, he just doesn't heal them.

2)No he channeled positive to harm, this would damage the Dhampirs as well.

3)Yes

4)No, they are only affected when undead are, so negative energy only affects them when used to heal

5) If the cleric in question had selective channeling, yes. Otherwise, no

[Cpt_kirstov]

darth_borehd wrote:

So if you heal, you have to heal combatants on the opposing side if they are in your range?

Correct - it is all people effected by the action in the burst radius, friend or foe.

[blackbloodtroll]

Selective channeling is pretty much a must for channeling in combat.

[AerynTahlro]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Whether with positive or negative, you can only heal, or harm, not both.

This is one of the places with channel that irks me...

D20PFSRD wrote:

...channels positive energy can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures

...channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures

So it's not that you're choosing between healing or harming, you're choosing between targeting living or dead.

So you'd target living creatures with a channel positive energy with the intent of healing them, but you would have no way of knowing how that energy will effect every target in the burst, so if a dhampir was caught in the channel that was intended for living creatures, I would say that it would harm the dhampir and heal the others.

~~~

As I said, the channel mechanic irks me. You are releasing a burst of either positive or negative energy. You should simply know how that burst will likely effect living/undead at the time of execution, but you shouldn't have to choose between healing/harming. A burst is a burst. Everything in the radius (unless you do selective channeling) should be hit and effected as normal.

Yes, I know that this appears to be "powerful" because a cleric can damage undead while healing living creatures, but to be fair, the healing isn't that much, and the damage really isn't that much.

[darth_borehd]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Selective channeling is pretty much a must for channeling in combat.

Sounds like it should be his next feat. Thanks.

[Zilkaiden]

Okay, I want to jump into this discussion even though the last post was back in May, 2012 and I have not been able to find the FAQ or Eratta regarding the subject.

Channel Energy (Su):

Regardless of alignment, any cleric can release a wave of energy by channeling the power of her faith through her holy (or unholy) symbol. This energy can be used to cause or heal damage, depending on the type of energy channeled and the creatures targeted.

A good cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures. An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships an evil deity) channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures. A neutral cleric of a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the cleric can cast spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see spontaneous casting).

Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the cleric. The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to 1d6 points of damage plus 1d6 points of damage for every two cleric levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on). Creatures that take damage from channeled energy receive a Will save to halve the damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the cleric's level + the cleric's Charisma modifier. Creatures healed by channel energy cannot exceed their maximum hit point total—all excess healing is lost. A cleric may channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. This is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A cleric can choose whether or not to include herself in this effect.

A cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability.

Death's Embrace (Ex):

At 8th level, you heal damage instead of taking damage from channeled negative energy. If the channeled negative energy targets undead, you heal hit points just like undead in the area.

Negative Energy Affinity:

Though a living creature, a dhampir reacts to positive and negative energy as if it were undead—positive energy harms it, while negative energy heals it.

According to the way that channel energy is written, channeling positive energy can choose to either deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures, while channeling negative energy does just the opposite. Additionally, a cleric can choose whether or not to include herself in this effect.

When it comes to Dhampir, channeling positive energy to harm undead creatures would not effect her, due to the description of Negative Energy Affinity stating that she is indeed a living creature (additionally, her type is Humanoid[Dhampir]). The weakness is put into play due to the fact that unless a cleric were to selectively remove the Dhampir from a positive energy channel, they would damage her instead of heal her, whereas a negative energy channel to harm living creatures would instead heal the Dhampir over damage. This is due to her being targeted as a living creature.

So in all essences, they are targeted by channel energy as living creatures, only the effects it normally has on living creatures are reversed for the Dhampir.

They are not considered undead.

This leads me to the reason I included the Death's Embrace ability from the Death Domain. If using Channel to target undead (healing them), she heals as if she were an undead in the area of effect. However, she would not be effected by Negative Energy unless it specifically targets undead.

Due to this, a Dhampir who is able to channel negative energy could in fact choose for it to deal damage to living creatures and include herself in the effect. This in turn would damage all but undead in the burst, but she would be healed by it. Any other race would not be able to both damage enemies but heal themselves using channel energy.

Hope this helps but more importantly, I hope a Dev reviews this and places this in the FAQ section.

["Devil's Advocate"]

Yes, a lot of people misunderstand both the way Channel Energy works and the way that Negative Energy Affinity works.

Channel Energy requires that you "target" either Living or Undead creatures in the area, (regardless of if you are channeling positive or negative energy, or if you are trying to heal or to harm). That is the choice.

Because Negative Energy Affinity states "reacts to positive and negative energy as if it were undead", rather than "treats the target as if they where undead", that means that they are treated as the Living Creature that they are, and are harmed by Positive Energy and Healed by Negative Energy like an Undead creature is. It does not mean that a creature with Negative Energy Affinity is hit by a Channel Energy that targets Undead, because they are neither Undead or act as if they are Undead.