Hi everyone, I am working on a character with a Whirlwind build and a few things came up...
First: Can you use Double chained Kama/Kusarigama/Kyoketsu Shoge to do a Whirlwind attack? I wasn't entirely sure because of the whole double-weapon thing....
Second: If you have Improved Unarmed Strike, and a reach weapon, can you whirlwind everything near and far? I have been looking on here and it seems most people feel this is OK (or with Spiked gauntlet/armor instead)
Third: Ummm... I know I had a third question but now I totally don't remember....
Anywhoo... any thoughts?
Yes you can use them. You don't have to use both sides of the weapon.
Yes you can hit anything you can reach if you have unarmed strike.
Hi everyone, I am working on a character with a Whirlwind build and a few things came up...
First: Can you use Double chained Kama/Kusarigama/Kyoketsu Shoge to do a Whirlwind attack? I wasn't entirely sure because of the whole double-weapon thing....
Second: If you have Improved Unarmed Strike, and a reach weapon, can you whirlwind everything near and far? I have been looking on here and it seems most people feel this is OK (or with Spiked gauntlet/armor instead)
Third: Ummm... I know I had a third question but now I totally don't remember....
Anywhoo... any thoughts?
I'm pretty sure that you can only use one weapon to make a Whirlwind Attack... however, I'm also pretty sure that you can take a 5' step [b]during[/u] the attack so that let's you get to more foes.
I have a Fighter build I use which gets Whirlwind Attack at 4th level using a Greatsword, gets Lunging Whirlwind Attack at 6th level and Dazing Lunging Whirlwind Attack at 11th. He's a beast.
Whirlwind Attack is not restricted to one weapon.
Depends on how you read it.
Analysis #1 (Whirlwind according to Blackbloodtroll)
Make several attacks, one against each opponent within reach.
Analysis #2 (According to Mercurial)
Make a single attack that hits everything within reach. Even though this counts as only one attack, make a separate roll against each opponent.
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IMO, the text of the feat is sufficiently vague to support either interpretation. The first one probably allows for the use of several different weapons, while the second one definitely doesn't. I've seen it run both ways.
I retract point two. You are not actually making several attacks. You are making one attack. That is the fluff anyway just like cleave's fluff is one attack, but the mechanics require more than one attack roll.
If Whirlwind allowed only one weapon, you would end up with some weird situations.
Like if you whirlwind, make the first attack, drop weapon, quickdraw another weapon.
Or a player with the Snap Shot feat and is wielding a thrown weapon.
When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.
Re: Snapshot, the ability specifies melee attack, so that's a moot point.
Re: Dropping your weapon and quickdrawing a new one, a single attack is resolved immediately, so doing this would not be possible. That's like saying "what happens if I use the full-round attack action, start my first swing, but drop my weapon and quickdraw a new one before it hits? What happens?" The rules don't allow for such a thing. As such, interpreting the whirlwind feat to only allow a single attack does not lead to the anomalous results you suggest,
That being said, I do agree that there is room for another interpretation: one that allows for multiple attacks, one against each opponent. Observe:
When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack… against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.
What a difference changing the emphasis can make, eh?
Dropping a weapon is a free action that can be done at any time during your turn.
Yes. I agree. However, once you swing, you've swung. If you're swinging multiple times, you can drop your weapon between swings. If you're swinging once, you can drop your weapon either before, or after you swing, but not during. Dropping your weapon "during" a swing does not make sense, and isn't supported by the rules. So if Whirlwind attack only allows for a sinlge swing that hits multiple opponents, then asking what happens if you drop your weapon between "swings" doesn't make sense. There's only one swing. You resolve the single swing immediately. You can't drop your weapon mid-swing; only between swings. But there's only one swing…
EDIT: Am I being very unclear here? :S
I do, but I find odd that you defend the 5ft step during, but not dropping your weapon.
I didn't. Someone else did.
Edit: for the record, I am ambivalent on which is the proper way to interpret whirlwind.
I do, but I find odd that you defend the 5ft step during, but not dropping your weapon.I didn't. Someone else did.
Edit: for the record, I am ambivalent on which is the proper way to interpret whirlwind.
There's a difference between 'defending it' and simply saying that's your understanding of the rules. I can't imagine my GM or any I've played with allowing one to switch weapons in the middle of a whirlwind attack, but that doesn't mean there aren't those out there who would.
Okay. With the "one weapon" whirlwind, what happens with a double weapon?
For the purposes of Whirlwind Attack, I would consider a double weapon to be one weapon... you're not dropping it and picking something different to attack with, either end of the weapon deals the same amount of damage and has the same reach - mechanically it would be exactly the same as if saying that you only used one end of the double weapon to attack. I don't think that's comparing apples to apples.
Again, that's my interpretation. I would likewise allow someone with a weapon in each hand to choose which weapon they wanted to make each single attack with, provided they had the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. Attacking everyone far away and then starting over to attack everyone close by with an entirely different weapon seems like too much of a stretch to me.
"When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities."
So the fighter swinging his bastard sword loses his Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) bonus when he uses Whirlwind Attack?
Exotic Weapon Proficiency grants no bonus attack so there is nothing to lose. (also, Exotic Weapon Proficiency does not grant any bonus, it grants proficiency which removes penalty and is not bonus).