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So just wondering, why do people take master Summoner over regular? I mean isn't the real benefit of the Summoner the petNot always. I've played my summoner various ways. For one module my actual main play was the standard action summons. The Master Summoner improves on that with his ability to spam them. Too many forget that the Eidolon is not the ONLY feature of the class, that you can play the summoner quite effectively and all but ditch the eidolon together. It's just a different play style.
Great advice here. At 1st level, your Eidolon could have five or six hit points, if you didn't pick Toughness as its first Feat. Counting on a class feature that pops like a balloon on the end of a goblin's spear to get you through an entire day is risky, and the Summon Monster SLA is *amazing,* lasting ten times as long as a spell of the same level, and taking only a standard action to cast.
A flight of celestial eagles can dish out three attacks apiece, and picking the appropriate 'type' (celestial vs. evil, etc.) adds some smite damage.
(Just bear in mind that this isn't 3.5, and you can't speak Celestial to your celestial eagles. You'll need a high Handle Animal skill to get them to do anything other than attack targets. If you want them to flank, you'll have to summon them into the exact space you want them in, and if the bad-guy 5 ft. steps, they won't adjust to 'keep the flank' or otherwise do anything tactically helpful, except by accident.)
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Good reason for investing in Linguistics, perhaps? Which by the way, just so happens to be a class skill for Summoners.
(Just bear in mind that this isn't 3.5, and you can't speak Celestial to your celestial eagles. You'll need a high Handle Animal skill to get them to do anything other than attack targets. If you want them to flank, you'll have to summon them into the exact space you want them in, and if the bad-guy 5 ft. steps, they won't adjust to 'keep the flank' or otherwise do anything tactically helpful, except by accident.)
Linguistics doesn't really include 'eagle' or 'dog,' so that might not be much use.
.Celestial eagles don't speak Celestial (and aren't good) in Pathfinder, which is what I kind of meant, there. You need Handle Animal to order them (or fiendish wolves, or whatever) around.
If you're going to make the summoner that summons multiple eagles to make handle animal checks you're crazy. That will bog the game down drastically.
Wait you have to make handle animal checks to direct a summoned animal? Wow is that a change or have I been playing wrong for years?
Yes it is correct. The Summoner only has SIX spell levels. To get the range from 1-9 in there means 3 of them have to be left out.Though UMD does bring some nice options in as well. fire elemental fire ball much? (and summon monster III can be wanded :)I just realized summon monster III is not on the spell list for summoners. Neither is Summon Monster VI. Is this correct or is the PRD in error? If so my summoner could not actually use a wand of Monster III (without a UMD Check).
It would be kind of silly to have something like Summon Monster III and Summon Monster IV both on the 3rd level spells list.
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Wait you have to make handle animal checks to direct a summoned animal? Wow is that a change or have I been playing wrong for years?
Only if you want it to do anything other than 'attack your enemies.'
Placing it exactly where you want it, during summoning, can help to use it to set up a flank, or select *which* of your enemies it attacks initially, but, otherwise, it's 'fire and forget.'
Back in 3.0/3.5, celestial and fiendish template animals gained Int 3, a good or evil alignment, and the ability to understand celestial / infernal (or abyssal). The Pathfinder celestial / fiendish templates don't add any of that. In Pathfinder, a celestial eagle is not good, has an Int 2, and doesn't understand celestial (or much of anything else) and a fiendish wolf isn't evil, doesn't understand infernal (or abyssal) and has an Int 2, just like a non-fiendish wolf.
Handling summoned celestial/fiendish animals is very different between PF and 3.X, as a result, and no summoning class but the Druid or Ranger has Handle Animal as a class skill. Having a decent Cha score, the Summoner is still much less disadvantaged by this rules change than the Conjuration Specialist Wizard...
Well damn, thanks for the info
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I'm sure there are traits that add Handle Animal as a class skill, such as Savannah Child, so that might be a possible solution if you want to play a Summoner or Conjuration specialist Wizard and get a bit more utility out of your celestial/fiendish/axiomatic/anarchic critters.
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A GM who prefers the 3.X solution of celestial critters being good (and understanding celestial) and fiendish critters being evil (and understanding infernal or abyssal) might be willing to house-rule that planar template animals work like in 3.X, and can be communicated with like in 'the old days.'
Honestly, with the changes PF made to class skills, Handle Animal being cross-class isn't that big of an issue anyway. The +3 bonus is very nice, but a summoner can survive without it.