Generally, less of the "same". I'm not interested in 2 mook combats, a trap, then the boss fight. Something different would be nice.
The current module "formula" has been done to death and needs to be retired. Does every scenario have to start with an intro by a Venture Captain? Do all the Faction Leaders HAVE to be precognitive ("When you get to the Dark House retrieve the Shiny Object to complete your Faction Mission.")?
Also, less railroad-y would be nice. The Powers-That-Be really need to remove the artificial word count limit to allow for some variety and descriptive text. (A word count limit for electronic media? Really?)
Beyond that, I would caution against trying for something ridiculous and/or hilarious though. Hilarity rarely translates well.
CJ
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I have a concept for a Scenario, but before i sit down and start writing, i want to know what you, my fellow Society Members, find interesting, challenging, ridiculous and downright hilarious in a scenario.
General tips would be the following (all my own opinion, mind you):
1. It's better to have a simplistic plot that makes sense than a deep plot with holes.
2. A fight that starts with an "oh crap" moment but is then overtaken by the PCs in a few rounds is infinitely preferable to a drawn-out grind against sturdy but nonthreatening foes. For example, getting ambushed by Giant Spiders isn't actually that dangerous, but it feels exciting. The tension of recovering from that surprise round is fun. Meanwhile, slugging it out with a handful of Adamantine Cobras at 6th level is just a boring time-sink.
3. For the love of Desna, pay attention to which skills are trained-only before you write faction missions, chase scene obstacles, or other skill challenges! I'm not saying you shouldn't ever require them, but make sure such a barrier is appropriate.
That's it off the top of my head. Good luck!
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KISS
Keep it simple stupid.
The more complicated the encounter description and the map, the more likely a GM will be unable to logically figure out what's going on, and then be unable to translate that to the players.
You can add complexity with terrain, spells, creatures, etc. without creating spatial and logic issues with maps that the cartographer draws incorrectly because they don't correctly understand what you ask for in your encounter.
It might be interesting to start a scenario in the middle of an ambush, and then at the end of the encounter give the retrospective intro text.
Don't try to write for hilarity (unless it involves monkeys. Monkeys are always hilarious--even when they are eating your eyeballs from your dead eye sockets.) Let hilarity be organic with the play experience. Trust me, hilarity will happen at the strangest times, and that's what makes the play experience enjoyable.
If you try to make a scenario hilarious, you are now telling the GM to be a comedian (which they may not be good at) and the players when to laugh. I hate laugh tracks.
Director of Brand Strategy
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I'd recommend, before you sit down and start writing a full scenario, that you pitch your idea to me as part of our ongoing Open Call. I'd hate to see you spend a bunch of time writing a 12,000-word adventure to have it not be published for parallel development, style, or other technicalities.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Oh, thought of something else:
Don't put dumb stuff on the Chronicle's loot. I have seen 2nd-level potions (300gp, available with a mere 5 Fame) on subtier 4-5 loot, which is just absurd.
Try to include at least one worthwhile item, like a scroll with a metamagic feat, or a partially-charged wand, or a higher-than-minimum CL potion, or individual magical arrows, or doses of poison that aren't Always Available, etc.
Think of things you wish you could buy but can't unless they're on a Chronicle sheet, and put one or two of them on the one you make.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Also, less railroad-y would be nice. The Powers-That-Be really need to remove the artificial word count limit to allow for some variety and descriptive text. (A word count limit for electronic media? Really?)
Are you volunteering to develop, layout, and edit all those extra words?
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Also, less railroad-y would be nice. The Powers-That-Be really need to remove the artificial word count limit to allow for some variety and descriptive text. (A word count limit for electronic media? Really?)Are you volunteering to develop, layout, and edit all those extra words?
I think he is. I think he's also offering to front the extra cash to pay the authors for those extra words.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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I think he is. I think he's also offering to front the extra cash to pay the authors for those extra words.Also, less railroad-y would be nice. The Powers-That-Be really need to remove the artificial word count limit to allow for some variety and descriptive text. (A word count limit for electronic media? Really?)Are you volunteering to develop, layout, and edit all those extra words?
Well in that case, I can't see why we wouldn't do it. ;-)
Well in that case, I can't see why we wouldn't do it. ;-)I think he is. I think he's also offering to front the extra cash to pay the authors for those extra words.Also, less railroad-y would be nice. The Powers-That-Be really need to remove the artificial word count limit to allow for some variety and descriptive text. (A word count limit for electronic media? Really?)Are you volunteering to develop, layout, and edit all those extra words?
If your model has a fundamental flaw it is the cash/word exchange. That might work fine for books and AP's and magazine articles. Not sure it works for Organized Play scenarios.
If you are looking for assistance with scenario development and editing I think you will find many members of the community willing to assist FOR FREE. However you might need to cede some creative control.
Frankly I think Paizo spends too much time/effort/money on layout and art for PFS scenarios.
I've been doing Organized Play of one sort or another for 12 years. By far PFS scenarios are the prettiest I've ever seen (though some of the LKoK mod's were quite pretty as well). But they aren't necessarily the most interesting or fun to play/GM. (Incidentally, LKoK suffered from the same problem.)
CJ
I'd talk to Mike/Mark about becoming an author before spending too much time, the process might be different than you think.
The current module "formula" has been done to death and needs to be retired.
Amen. Or at least there needs to be some variation.
Besides that though, what's the formula for writing a great scenario? How about a great song/movie/novel? If we knew, we'd all be doing it. Probably the best ones don't have a formula.
I like my scenarios to:
1) Make sense.
2) Have interesting roleplaying opportunities.
3) Have the PCs make decisions that have consequences (at least in that scenario).
4) Make the players think.
5) Have interesting and unique encounters in them.
6) Be something that is unique and memorable (hopefully in a good way).
Good luck!
However you might need to cede some creative control.
Wow .. can't see that happening
Frankly I think Paizo spends too much time/effort/money on layout and art for PFS scenarios.
Considering how successful they've been, I'm ok with what they're doing
I've been doing Organized Play of one sort or another for 12 years. By far PFS scenarios are the prettiest I've ever seen (though some of the LKoK mod's were quite pretty as well). But they aren't necessarily the most interesting or fun to play/GM. (Incidentally, LKoK suffered from the same problem.)CJ
You seem somewhat antagonistic (strange for a VO imo) towards what Paizo is doing and how they are doing and the fact that they aren't doing it to satisfy you. Keep in mind, you're a shell in the large peanut bucket that is PFS and while you might have ideas on how to change things, until you become "one with paizo" as in.. write a scenario, work on the staff, etc., you kinda gotta deal with what they put out. Being antagonixtic towards them is probably not the way to do it.. just saying
It may be an overworked formula .. but it's not that broken so no real need to fix it .. when it breaks completely I'm sure they'll take a look at fixing it.
For my on-topic reply
Working with Mark is going to make this a much easier process for you... Writing a senario is a huge undertaking and having the backing of the lead developer goes a long way to him working with you intead of forging ahead on your own.
With that said, I look forward to reading what you do.
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Hmmm...
This thread seems nuclear. So let me throw my opinion in and see what happens.
PFCBG, please don't infer tone over the internet, more so please don't try and "point it out". That's kinda a rude way to derail a thread discussing something some of us are very passionate about, you know...PFS and having fun.
Each region has certain expectations, and I can only assume that our region is different from others.
In our region, the Western Washington region, we have alot of players with high expectations from previous living campaigns. Among these chiefly are included the following: Social RP scenario's in a quasi LARP format, local leadership development of a few scenario's a year (primarily for convention "specials"), storyline impact and development overseen by the leadership, and our favorite...being different.
We've only volunteered our time to co-ordinate this region...so...hey...what do we know.
Growing from less then 3 weekly tables at 3 gamestores 8 months ago to 15+ tables every week at 7 game stores...I think we've only done an ok job of tapping into those previous players of previous campaigns and recruiting new ones.
On top of that, presence at new conventions, numbering in the 8 now that we attend: (Paizocon, Pax Prime, NorWesCon, DragonFlight, Seattle City Comic Con, GottaCon, New Years Eve of Loser Fun, and Girl Game Con).
While that sounds like alot of work, we've really just rode and guided the wave.
With that all in mind, here is our feedback. Please don't assume it is malicious or antagonistic.
What really stands out to me as my favorite scenario's are the one with interesting "mini games" put into them. Part 3 of quest for perfection, the season 2 special The midnight Mauler (now a season 3 scenario), and a few others that don't have mini games that highlight role-play like immortal conundrum.
On top of that I enjoy non linear stories. Give me options of where I want to go and how to get there, such as in shades of ice part 1 and shadows last stand part 2. They give strong GM's a great base to develop an awesome experience for the player with an hour of prep.
Also, don't try and make one big bad guy...I want enemy action economy to rival the PC's in the final fight. I want them to be worried.
AND...for faction missions, please don't make it fetch quests.
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You seem somewhat antagonistic (strange for a VO imo) towards what Paizo is doing and how they are doing and the fact that they aren't doing it to satisfy you. Keep in mind, you're a shell in the large peanut bucket that is PFS and while you might have ideas on how to change things, until you become "one with paizo" as in.. write a scenario, work on the staff, etc., you kinda gotta deal with what they put out. Being antagonixtic towards them is probably not the way to do it.. just saying
It may be an overworked formula .. but it's not that broken so no real need to fix it .. when it breaks completely I'm sure they'll take a look at fixing it.
I mean the formula does work, but there is nothing wrong with adding more flavor to it to making it a little less boring and "same ol, same ol". There are plenty of ways to stay in the box and still play out of the box.
Things I like in a scenario:
--More RP, less combat. Being a storytelling GM, I prefer to run modules that I don't have to spend two hours looking through the CRB to deal with combat tactics and other rules questions. I like giving the characters the roleplay opportunities to grow along with kicking butt and taking names.
--Traps! I do love me some evil traps. Especially when the rogue fails the check. I would love to see a hall of traps and just watch the insanity ensue.
--Puzzle power! Make the players think a little harder outside of combat. Some of us find combat very boring, and we aren't built for traps, but puzzles-sign me and my clerics, wizards, rangers and rogues up.
--Utilizing the mechanics that we don't normally use in PFS--We just recently saw some adventures that utilized the chase rules mechanics. (The Midnight Mauler and God's Market Gamble) And the newest module The Icebound Post has a scroll mage who has scroll blade and scroll shield and she drops a party with a swipe of a scroll and then casting a fireball. There are plenty of things that are PFS legal, that can add flavor to the adventure. We just have to be willing to do more than just three combats, a trap or two and fetch a few items. We could even if we wanted in the higher tiers, have fun with siege engines.
There are plenty of ways to keep the formula the same, without making it the same module like everything else.
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I'd love to see a series of 'Faction Leader Loyalty Missions', ala Mass Effect 2, which in my humble opinion, got really close to perfecting episodic, serialised mission storytelling.
So in ME2, you had these missions that effectively focused on one character. For instance, Jack, the psychotic, untrusting but highly powerful biotic (psionic) who has trust issues but also a heart of gold. In her first mission, you need to spring her out of the high security jail she’s incarcerated in. In her second mission, she takes you to the experimental testing facility that was responsible for messing her up so much. You learn about her upbringing and she grows as a character, all while shooting stuff and having adventures.
Why can’t we do this with the Faction Leaders/Recurring PFS NPCs?
EG: Ambrus Valsin. He calls you into his office under the pretenses of ‘official Pathfinder business'. He has actually organised a mission for the Pathfinders to return to his home town. He tells how enemies of the Society are targeting Valsin’s family and childhood home in order to blackmail Valsin into handing over a powerful artefact. During the final battle, Valsin battles alongside the PCs and we get an insight into how much smackdown he’s wielding. Everyone gets to learn more about Valsin, and perhaps at the same time, Pathfinders from the Grand Lodge faction may gain access to a special faction boon for learning more about their leader. We could have a ‘Leader Focus’ mission for every NPC.
I like something in the middle. For example:
Essentially, I don't really want them adventuring with us. That being said, at the moment all I see them as is some faceless nobodies who hands out points for menial jobs.
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Yeah, I totally agree Jeff.
It's not about 'Look at the NPC fight!' but more 'Who is this NPC?'
I trust PFS writers enough to know that they'd never try to outshine the players using an NPC. I don't care if Ambrus wields a greatsword or what feats he chose, I just want to know his backstory, his aims and his relationship with the Decemvirate.
Jeff, while roleplay isn't my forte or even my favorite most of the time, that dinner party is quickly becoming one of my favorites. It's interesting to be able to put different personalities and voice behind the NPCs.
I'll be the first one to day that I'm more of a combat driven GM, but if there is roleplay opportunities like the dinner party I'll dig in and prep it so that I can run it in all of its glory
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I trust PFS writers
Muhuhahaha
I trust PFS writersMuhuhahaha
ONE MILLION DOLLARS!
Muhuhuhuhuha!
I didn't want to be left out. Plus I'm bald with a scar on my face, just like Dr. Evil.
I need to buy this ratfolk scenario and take some notes, I think.
I need to buy this ratfolk scenario and take some notes, I think.
It's not *that* good (it's probably more evil than good). As objectively as I can, I'd probably rate it in my top 10, but not top 5.
hmm, wonder what my top five really is.
As objectively as I can, I'd probably rate it in my top 10, but not top 5I would definitely rate it in the top ten of scenarios released in 2012 :D
woohoo, it's better than at least one other scenario!
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Back to OP's Topic:
What compels me most about scenarios are 3 basic elements.
1.) Reasonable compelling storyline that doesn't feel like a string of combats. See Shadow's Last Stand for one example of this done well, and IMHO See Immortal Conundrum for an example of one that performs poorly in this manner.
2.) When it comes to Encounters I like to see Creative combats that are well thought out and provide tactically challenging moments. For a Well done example of this done properly see Wonders of the Weave 1 or Assault on the Kingdom of the Impossible (Primarily first Combat).
3.) Uniqueness of an adventure that makes it stand out in one's memory, for a good example look to Part II of Before the Dawn. Players will never forget that moment.... You know what one I'm talking about. When this is done poorly, people have trouble with coming up with Examples of them, because they don't remember them.
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I trust PFS writersMuhuhahaha
You're hearing the innocent naiveté of a child who hasn't played the Rats two parter yet.
Come July I'm sure I'll be a shivering wreck of a man who burns all his defensive spells if he sees a single goblin, let alone a ratfolk (...that's what contingency teleport is for).Hey, I liked Immortal Conundrum's combats!
One of these days there needs to be a scenario where the party is halfway through an acrobatics skill challenge when the rival party shows up to Belloq the hell out of them.
Back to OP's Topic:
What compels me most about scenarios are 3 basic elements.
1.) Reasonable compelling storyline that doesn't feel like a string of combats. See Shadow's Last Stand for one example of this done well, and IMHO See Immortal Conundrum for an example of one that performs poorly in this manner.
2.) When it comes to Encounters I like to see Creative combats that are well thought out and provide tactically challenging moments. For a Well done example of this done properly see Wonders of the Weave 1 or Assault on the Kingdom of the Impossible (Primarily first Combat).
3.) Uniqueness of an adventure that makes it stand out in one's memory, for a good example look to Part II of Before the Dawn. Players will never forget that moment.... You know what one I'm talking about. When this is done poorly, people have trouble with coming up with Examples of them, because they don't remember them.
I started a new thread in this sub-forum just to hear about favorite scenarios with cool encounters specifically (as opposed to other noteworthy concerns like faction missions and treasure).
I'm looking at this post right now. Feel free to visit that other thread if you're so inclined if you have any more observations. Feel free to be specific in spoiler tags. I'll examine the scenario and see what I can learn from it! I don't get to actually play much PFS, so the more specific about what, where and why, would really help!
As an adult, I enjoy lighter fun-timey games.Takes all kinds I guess.
PFS will almost always cater to a more "family friendly" type of scenario. That's why Black Waters was originally retired.
There are several modules that are darker in nature. Carnival of Tear is a good example.
Oh I think you can tell a fairly mature story and still say safely in the middle of family/adult content. The individual's own imagination can fill in the details with only the slightest intimation. Don't underestimate that.
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IMO The best scenarios have:
- Humor. Funny scenes and a real sense of humor.
- A real connection/feel for the part of Golarion they are set. Im a bit of a setting freak and really enjoy when I can get a sense of the larger world from the scenario
- Interactive environments. Things beyond the scrum like combats that people with imagination and skills can incorporate to make the combats more interesting.
- Cool RP scenes that can change the events of the scenario. Im thinking of Sewer Dragons of Absalom as an example.
- Ive enjoyed some of the scenarios where I and the players can geek out of the obvious reference to great cinema. Im thinking Defenders of Nesting Swallow with its inspiration to the Seven Samuria as an example.
Best of luck with writing Amsheagar
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I'm a little late to the party, but...
Absolutely talk to Mark first. After that, if it works, try to give the players more of the backstory.
I know there is limited time, but there's usually a column and a half of text at the front of the scenario that the GM reads but the players never see. Often it's the framework of the whole thing, and often it's the best part of the whole thing.
When I judge, I try to incorporate that information here and there throughout the scenario so the players get a better sense of the overall picture. It helps to avoid the railroad method and gives them a better play experience.
However, with all the other things I have to keep track of, I often fail. It'd be nice to have more of that information throughout the scenario rather than up front. It wouldn't change the word count, but it would change how they are written - and that has to come from Mark naturally!
When I judge, I try to incorporate that information here and there throughout the scenario so the players get a better sense of the overall picture. It helps to avoid the railroad method and gives them a better play experience.
However, with all the other things I have to keep track of, I often fail. It'd be nice to have more of that information throughout the scenario rather than up front. It wouldn't change the word count, but it would change how they are written - and that has to come from Mark naturally!
That would be an interesting twist ... if that were to happen, hopefully there would be someway to distinguish the flavor portion of the information vs. the stat portion of the information.. some sort of delineation in the text so that we could incorporate it easier into the game as we're running it
That is often a goal for writers, to bring the back-story to the forefront. I admit too, as a GM, that I fail to do this from time to time. I also spend extra hours with additional handouts from related source books to put the information in front of the players.