So I'm making a sixth level rogue for a brand new player. I want to make him pretty simple to play, but not sucky. I need some feats, talents, etc. Anything to make this character as simple as possible would be helpful.
Before I help you I'm wondering why you're so set on playing a rogue. Also if you weren't aware there are many other classes that can be rogue like and contribute more effectively. I first suggest making a short backstory and description of the character you want to play. Then consider the class that relates the closest to it and still contributes effectively to a party composition. Also look at the ninja considering that it's better than the rogue and can fill the same role.
Bard Archeologist.
Archaeologist's Luck is easier to use than sneak attack - you don't have to position yourself or anything. (and let him use the modified version giving rounds per day equal to bardic performances - the designers said somewhere that the number of rounds of luck was pretty much an error.)
Write down spells on cards - as a new player, it will be much easier for him.
At level 6 you gain uncanny dodge, evasion, trap sense, can disable magic traps (and take 10 on disable devices check) and have one Rogue Talent.
You are pretty much a rogue with some spontaneous spells and an easier to use ability to replace sneak attacks. Pick more "roguish" skills like stealth, and you are a better rogue than the rogue.
If you want a Dex build, go for for the Dervish Dance feat. Dump Str, have Cha just high enough for spells and pick buffs (don't go for offensive spells as your DC won't be high enough, pick things like mirror image, cats grace, heroism)and have a high dex. You may want to take a feat or two in ranged combat to be a good switch hitter.
It may seem more difficult to play than a straight rogue, but believe me, it take a lot of thinking in able to land a sneak attack and a rogue is pretty difficult to play if you do not master every rule of combat and are not able to react with delayed actions to other players' moves.
The archeologist is very straithforward in combat. Cast a spell or use luck, move and attack.
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Bard Archeologist.
This is one possiblility, and a pretty good one. If doing so, make sure to have Lingering Performance. It's a must-have on that Archetype.
Another is to use Ninja, which is a bit more complex but by no means impossible, and mechanically better than a Rogue. If you want to keep flavor, call it a Rogue and use Rogue rules except replace Evasion with a Ki Pool and alow access to the Ninja Trick list (this is entirely balanced with the existing Ninja).
If you do go Rogue or Ninja I reccomend TWF and Weapon Finesse (possibly taken as a Rogue Talent) for Feats. Other Feats depend on what type of Rogue you're aiming for.
Talent-wise, Trap Spotter is wonderul if you want to be a trapfinder and Fast Stealth is lots of fun. Ofensive Defense is quite good in combat as well.
If you go Ninja, the above are all possibilities, but Vanishing Trick and Shadow Clone are both better (though they do cost Ki).
I really can't get over how poorly people view rogues. Once you resolve the to-hit bonus issue (which we resolved with a bard and the rogues gang up/ extra flanking bonus from enchantments) they're unbelievable damage. Encounter wrecking even. Even tough encounters don't last longer then two full attacks from him.
We're level 10, this is his build:
Rogue1 Combat Expertise, TWF
Rogue2 Weapon Finesse
Rogue3 Gang Up
Rogue4 Minor Magic
Rogue5 Iron Will
Rogue6 Major Magic
Rogue7 Weapon Focus
Rogue8 Combat Trick: ITWF
Rogue9 Lunge
Rogue10 Dispelling Strike
He's cranking out so much damage I (as the bard) have no qualms blowing spells to move him into position for a full attack because the damage is so impressive. His defense is up there too now that he has celestial armor. I think he's rocking a 24 dex, and his weapon grants him an additional +2 when he's flanking. With my Grandmaster Performance feat I'm also giving a +4, and within a round I can have haste out with no problems. Heroism is either already on him or I will be doling out Good Hope. He snagged slippers of spider climb at a very early level and now whenever people are backed into a position to take a flank away from him he's able to get one anyway by fighting from the walls or ceiling.
I think the thing about rogues (more than any other melee class) is you need to support them. Everyone needs to support them. If everyone treats the rogue like an artillery piece which has to have its position planned out carefully for it to be effective then the team will make sure the rogue can melt some faces. I've even seen our inquisitor use the swap places teamwork feat to make sure the rogue was in the best possible position for a full attack on his next turn.
scout (perhaps with ninja) halfling with (merciful) slings and saps.
He uses sap master to master to maximize his damage.
At the beginning he's likely to charge and deal whatever damage he can in melee.
At level 8 when monsters become more ferocious in melee he moves 30 feet and makes a single slingshot with sap master to one ennemy, doing heavy damage.
Should be simple enough, he has problems with things immune to nonlethal damage though.
ninja helps with stealth rules that are quite hard, with invisibility it should be easier.
Halflings are just for fun, any race would do fine. Strength adds damage to both weapons and attack in melee while dex is good for AC and ranged hit.
Int helps skillpoints and Charisma gives ki-points to the ninja.
A 14 in all of those should be sufficient as you often target flat footed AC. If there are guns in your campaign, he could go that route to target flat-footed touch AC, so a 95% hit. That would need a few more feats, gold and a campaign on that tech level.
Edit: Some ideas for rogue talents:
Snap Shot + Underhanded = finish a single opponent before combat starts
Snipers Eye = ignore an unconvenient rule
I really can't get over how poorly people view rogues. Once you resolve the to-hit bonus issue (which we resolved with a bard and the rogues gang up/ extra flanking bonus from enchantments) they're unbelievable damage. Encounter wrecking even. Even tough encounters don't last longer then two full attacks from him.
We're level 10, this is his build:
Rogue1 Combat Expertise, TWF
Rogue2 Weapon Finesse
Rogue3 Gang Up
Rogue4 Minor Magic
Rogue5 Iron Will
Rogue6 Major Magic
Rogue7 Weapon Focus
Rogue8 Combat Trick: ITWF
Rogue9 Lunge
Rogue10 Dispelling StrikeHe's cranking out so much damage I (as the bard) have no qualms blowing spells to move him into position for a full attack because the damage is so impressive. His defense is up there too now that he has celestial armor. I think he's rocking a 24 dex, and his weapon grants him an additional +2 when he's flanking. With my Grandmaster Performance feat I'm also giving a +4, and within a round I can have haste out with no problems. Heroism is either already on him or I will be doling out Good Hope. He snagged slippers of spider climb at a very early level and now whenever people are backed into a position to take a flank away from him he's able to get one anyway by fighting from the walls or ceiling.
I think the thing about rogues (more than any other melee class) is you need to support them. Everyone needs to support them. If everyone treats the rogue like an artillery piece which has to have its position planned out carefully for it to be effective then the team will make sure the rogue can melt some faces. I've even seen our inquisitor use the swap places teamwork feat to make sure the rogue was in the best possible position for a full attack on his next turn.
Because you can get damage like that unconditionally at level 7 or so with other classes like the druid or alchemist.
I think the thing about rogues (more than any other melee class) is you need to support them. Everyone needs to support them. If everyone treats the rogue like an artillery piece which has to have its position planned out carefully for it to be effective then the team will make sure the rogue can melt some faces. I've even seen our inquisitor use the swap places teamwork feat to make sure the rogue was in the best possible position for a full attack on his next turn.
I agree with you, a well played Rogue, with good support, can work wonders.
But it's difficult to pull of when you are still learning the rules. How to position yourself, how to delay in order too act after the buff, etc. Your Inquisitor example is the proof that you don't only need to be aware of the game rules and your character's powers, but also of the powers of other characters.
Rogue is probably the most difficult martial class to play as it requires a very good grasp of the system and of your party abilities - that is why, for a first time player, I would go with any self sufficient class who can play the roguish stealth and disarm genre like a Trapper Ranger or an Archeologist Bard.
Hmmm ... there is no such thing as a simple rogue ... rogue can be simple, but than you need full support of a team, guessing how that won't happen, there are few builds you can go, that are more or less effective on their own.
First one, that i still didn't try is Half-Orc, Thug Archtype,with Falchion. Key feats are Intimidating Prowess, Skill Focus (Intimidate), Dazzling Display and Shatter Defense. It would be great if someone else would go for Dazzling display too, so Rogue can delay and then use Shatter Defense to have Sneak Attacks versus Intimidated foe, but its not needed.
Second one, that i am playing at the moment, is Rogue/Shadow Dancer. Mind you, Shadow Dancer is a 3 level dip (4 if your player decides its cool to jump from shadow to shadow like me), cause of Shadow. That way, he always got his flanking buddy (except when things are immune to ability damage, i am guessing than Shadow doesn't even threaten, but that is my guess, its up to DM to decide), that can fly 80 feet per round (double move) and after level 13 or 14, got even greater synergy when Rogue picks up Cripping Strike. This build got drawback, cause it loses 2d6 Sneak Attack in the process. For added fluff of whatevs you can pick up Chameleon (Stealth Archtype) and Tiefling (Darkness) so he can use Hide in Plain Sight with ridiculous amounts of Stealth.
Performance feats could get you to the point where you're intimidating with a swift action, but you never see them mentioned here and I think it's another 2-3 feats.
Rogues do well in a team that coordinates well and babies him.
If your sole basis for performance is DPR, then you will be disappointed with the rogue. If you look at the class in terms of the utility it offers then you'll truly begin to appreciate the rogue a bit more. Sure there are other classes that can do some things that the rogue can do...but there is no other class that can do everything the rogue can do.
That being said it may not be the right class for a brand new player...but neither is an archaeologist for that matter.
Thanks this will help