Profession (scout)?


Advice


Does this seem like a legit profession? What about profession (guide)? What uses would they have?

Why do you ask, Foghammer?:
I'm playing a spell-less ranger in a Kingmaker campaign soon, and I want to take a few ranks in a profession for role-playing, but I'm not sure what to take.

He is a NG male human ranger worshiper of Erastil from House Medvyed (noble-born campaign trait, free). Going the whole nine yards with Erastil. I also got Caretaker (faith trait) and Charming (social trait). If that helps get a bead on his personality at all.

EDIT: I'm not interested in profession (hunter); I can play that up on survival checks and such. Looking for an angle that is more community/socially based, or something like that.


Scout is one of those roles like controler, blaster, tank yada yad that several classes can fill. Guide would be a likely a ranger or druid or skilled rogue with heavy knowledge in the area or region in question. So for your RP you will want your ranger to take ranks in knowledge local, make sure he has the favored terrain of this area, heavy ranks in stealth, survival and gear that reflects what you need in the region. If it is mountains he has a climbing kit all decked out so he can get his spikes on and so forth. Now if you want an additional skill to through in there I suggest craft leatherworking, or furrier.

Liberty's Edge

'Scout' isn't really a profession, it's something a soldier might do, butn the Profession involved would be soldier.

'Guide' on the other hand, strikes me as a perfectly reasonable Profesion for someone to have.


What you would do as a guide is already covered by survival, knowlege local, and others. A new proffession skill would be a pretty good way to get free skill points and posibly bonuses depending on the relevant stats.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
'Scout' isn't really a profession, it's something a soldier might do, butn the Profession involved would be soldier.

"Soldier" is also something soldiers do. When I was a soldier, I often soldiered. :)

Liberty's Edge

Gnomezrule wrote:
What you would do as a guide is already covered by survival, knowlege local, and others. A new proffession skill would be a pretty good way to get free skill points and posibly bonuses depending on the relevant stats.

This...isn't quite how Profession work. Profession (Blacksmith) totally exists, as does Profession (Soldier), despite other stats governing how good you are at fighting or smithing. Profession measures how good you are at making money at that profession. Someone with the skills you list might be an excellent guide, but he needs the Profession to make good money at it.


I can see that.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Gnomezrule wrote:
What you would do as a guide is already covered by survival, knowlege local, and others. A new proffession skill would be a pretty good way to get free skill points and posibly bonuses depending on the relevant stats.
This...isn't quite how Profession work. Profession (Blacksmith) totally exists, as does Profession (Soldier), despite other stats governing how good you are at fighting or smithing. Profession measures how good you are at making money at that profession. Someone with the skills you list might be an excellent guide, but he needs the Profession to make good money at it.

So a character with Craft(blacksmithing) would need Profession(blacksmithing) to make money? That's not what the rules say.

On topic: I think Profession(guide) makes sense, but this skill would never replace the other skills associated with it (knowledge(local), survival, knowledge(geography) maybe). So it's useful for making money and perhaps other situations if the GM is generous.

Liberty's Edge

Lokiron wrote:
So a character with Craft(blacksmithing) would need Profession(blacksmithing) to make money? That's not what the rules say.

He could make specific commissions and sell them with Craft alone (doing the rolls for each individual thing, then finding a buyer), but day-to-day blacksmith work (nails, horseshoes, etc.) is probably better represented by a Profession check.


I'd rather not get into whether or not Craft/Profession stuff overlaps. I don't much care, because we never use Craft rules.

@Gnomezrule: I'm talking about actually putting points into the skill "profession." As a ranger, my character will naturally be taking most of the skills you mentioned in addition to profession (x).

@Deadmanwalking: So profession (soldier) would make sense, and I could just flavor it up as having been a scout...? Hmm. This could go somewhere.

I've been reading all I can about Erastil this morning and trying to track down more info on the noble houses in that particular area of Brevoy. Most of the info on Erastil is recycled in several places, and many of the differences are merely in the presentation of that same information. House Medvyed is best described in the Kingmaker Player's Guide (as far as I could find) but still leaves little to work with.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Lokiron wrote:
So a character with Craft(blacksmithing) would need Profession(blacksmithing) to make money? That's not what the rules say.
He could make specific commissions and sell them with Craft alone (doing the rolls for each individual thing, then finding a buyer), but day-to-day blacksmith work (nails, horseshoes, etc.) is probably better represented by a Profession check.

Actually, under the RAW both Craft and Profession skills have the exact same mechanic for making a weekly income. Blacksmith would work under Profession, but Merchant would probably be more appropriate for someone who focussed on the business side of things instead of crafting. A Profession skill that encompasses a Craft is valid, but highly redundant in the system. Profession (Scout) or Profession (Guide) are also valid even though most of the useful aspects of those careers are handled under other skills. Useful mechanics other than salary production are generally only placed under Profession when another skill is not the more appropriate place, making Profession the catch all skill.


Foghammer wrote:

I'd rather not get into whether or not Craft/Profession stuff overlaps. I don't much care, because we never use Craft rules.

@Gnomezrule: I'm talking about actually putting points into the skill "profession." As a ranger, my character will naturally be taking most of the skills you mentioned in addition to profession (x).

@Deadmanwalking: So profession (soldier) would make sense, and I could just flavor it up as having been a scout...? Hmm. This could go somewhere.

I've been reading all I can about Erastil this morning and trying to track down more info on the noble houses in that particular area of Brevoy. Most of the info on Erastil is recycled in several places, and many of the differences are merely in the presentation of that same information. House Medvyed is best described in the Kingmaker Player's Guide (as far as I could find) but still leaves little to work with.

Most of my rangers I RP as having a hunter, guide, scout or whatever as a day job because as a ranger I have all the skills to do it. I can see taking a profession skill to "understand the business of it," but it seems to me to be something that the general niche of the class aready does. My current ranger before adventuring was a furrier and tanner. I actually took some ranks in leatherworking.


Well, profession doesn't just have to be about accounting and bookkeeping. If that was the case, it would just be "Accounting/Bookkeeping (Wis)."

For instance:

Profession (farmer) could, in role play, provide opportunities to roll on information about farming, how/when to plow, plant, and harvest, what sort of soil is right for certain kinds of crops, etc.

Profession (soldier) could be used to determine the most tactically sound locations for ambushes, or to identify enemy movement patterns in tracks that are being followed.

Profession (sailor) is frequently used to perform tasks related to seafaring.

Example conversation of what I see being proposed here:
Party Member #1: "How do you raise a sail?"
Guy with profession (sailor): "I dunno, but I can tell you the best way to make money by sailing around these waters: carry cargo AND passengers in the same haul, and you'll double your profits."
Party Member #1: "But you can't raise a sail?"
Guy with profession (sailor): "Nah. I only put points in to roll checks for money during downtime."

That in mind, I don't want to just roll profession checks for this character and see how much gold he makes. I want it to matter to his narrative. I want him to have something to fall back on when he retires from adventuring. So far, soldier sounds best, but I'd like to hear other ideas.


As I tried to express earlier, and with your help here, Profession(guide/scout) could be rendered useless (depending on GM) because it overlaps with over skills. Sailor very clearly does not. If I were your GM here I think I would quick-fix the skill overlaps by allowing you to use Profession with a penalty (where appropriate).

I love these odd skills for background and often have a few, but I don't get my hopes up on their usage. On that note I would support the soldier suggestion as it works for your concept and has rather obvious usage :-)


Foghammer my advice sit down and talk with the GM about what he thinks the best course of action would be.

It might be that he would rather it be based off of the core skills in this case or it might be he is cool with it being a proffession.


I tend to let Profession or Craft skills be used as Perceptiom or Appraise checks for things relating to that particular skill. A carpenter will notice things out of place in a sawmill, a guide would know the price of various furs, etc. I figure the wider I make those skills, the more chance a PC will take them and get some benefit/enjoyment from them. They ought to be fairly wide.


I am the DM, usually. One of my players is stepping up to DM Kingmaker though, and we bounce ideas like this off the forums when we aren't sure about how to use x, y or z.

I think I'm just going to use soldier though. I had hoped to find a profession more befitting a worshiper of Erastil, but I guess the Ranger class pretty much takes care of all of that in its other skills and class features.


Foghammer wrote:

Well, profession doesn't just have to be about accounting and bookkeeping. If that was the case, it would just be "Accounting/Bookkeeping (Wis)."

For instance:

Profession (farmer) could, in role play, provide opportunities to roll on information about farming, how/when to plow, plant, and harvest, what sort of soil is right for certain kinds of crops, etc.

Profession (soldier) could be used to determine the most tactically sound locations for ambushes, or to identify enemy movement patterns in tracks that are being followed.

Profession (sailor) is frequently used to perform tasks related to seafaring.

Example conversation of what I see being proposed here:
Party Member #1: "How do you raise a sail?"
Guy with profession (sailor): "I dunno, but I can tell you the best way to make money by sailing around these waters: carry cargo AND passengers in the same haul, and you'll double your profits."
Party Member #1: "But you can't raise a sail?"
Guy with profession (sailor): "Nah. I only put points in to roll checks for money during downtime."

That in mind, I don't want to just roll profession checks for this character and see how much gold he makes. I want it to matter to his narrative. I want him to have something to fall back on when he retires from adventuring. So far, soldier sounds best, but I'd like to hear other ideas.

Almost all of the examples you listed in professions are not already skills or class abilities or fall into fluff normally associated with a class. Profession sailor is the only skill that gives you skills related specifically to sailing. There is no knowledge military, logistics and so forth so profession soldier is needed. Profession guide, assuming it is wilderness guide, has huge amounts of overlap with class abilities, other skils and so forth.

Grand Lodge

Why not just throw a rank in profession(soldier), and profession(guide)? That covers both of the money making aspects of the "scout" you are talking about.


The roles and duties of military scouts and guides have some crossover but are altogether different. The Professions skill lists a series of most common professions, not necessarily of all professions.

Given the anachronistic aspect of high fantasy, I think armies would certainly have scouts set out to detect ambushes, traps, monsters etc and have less to do with finding the way (the army would also have guides for that). I really thinks Profession (scout) fits in there.

Also, don't forget that, as SenahBirdR said, all Craft skills can be used as a profession and that all professions allow the character to answer questions related to its trade (so yes, the sailor would tell you how to raise a sail).

What I deplore about the Profession skill is that things are less clear when it comes to actually doing things. So when the character with Professions (sailor) says "I'm raising the sail", it isn't clear which skill he's supposed to use. In the case of the scout, most of its trick of the trades are already covered by other skills in the game. So like the Profession (hunter) and Profession (soldier), it would serve no purpose other than making a negligible amount of gp (in the lifestyle of an adventurer).

This is even worst with Professions that actually wield a product, such as a baker or a brewer. We assume that the brewer can make beer, but you need to houserule the profession to work as a craft if you want the brewer to produce a keg of beer :(

At best, you could say that the income provided allow the party to save on upkeep fees, but it really prevents professions like the herbalist and the apothecary which, especially in a fantasy setting, should be able to produce some really cool things...

'findel

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