Some background: Playing through Kingmaker, Just "finishing" stolen lands(as in, still some exploration available, but they're at the stag lord's fort).
Newish players(and gm), so not throwing in anything like the APG, or other added rulesets.(Just the PHB, and the kingmaker PG)
Everyone is currently level 3, and consist of a Halfling Rog, HOrc Barb, HElf Ranger, Helf Druid, Dwarf Cleric.
The main question comes in with, my players seemed to be ROFLstomping through the preset encounters. Or even random encounters I threw in(On a night of 2 players missing, three level 2 characters downed a singular troll, cleric ranger and barbarian). Am I doing something wrong with that? Cause it seems the more challenging I try to make them, they're going to get massive CR/XP rewards?
For instance, they went the infiltration/coup de grace route for the stag lord, all the while recruiting akiros to their side through RP. I awarded them XP for both the stag lord and akiros for it. But it felt a little anti climatic, so I worked instead of the bandits fleeing, they fight, I gave half the named bandits levels(all third level, so CR2) which leaves me with Auchs, Dovan, the three named leveled bandits, and four "bandits." So that's five CR2, and four 1/3(we'll say a 1 for ease). Is that to be read as a CR11? Or do i use the table for multiple encounters, where it says CR(for just one or all?)+4(we're going to go with there being only four extra creatures). Or do I play out the battle and award experience based on killing five CR2 monsters(which at 3000 puts it between a 6 or 7).
Sorry for the ramble, I guess the real issue is, I'm trouble with encounters, making them challenging, without them becomine seemingly high CR levels that the low level NPCs still seem to roll through.
Gauging how challenging is too challenging is an ongoing learning experience, even for veteran GMs.
XP is awarded per critter (CR), while "encounter CR" is a rough gauge of how challenged a typical group will be by the encounter relative to APL (average party level).
APL assumes (a) 15 point ability score buy, (b) 4 PCs, and (c) gear approximately in line with the Wealth by Level chart (~page 398 I think).
Since you have more characters of indeterminate point buy value, you need to keep two things in mind. First, do *not* adjust the as-written loot and wanted poster rewards. Second, figure APL as (point buy value used per PC X # of PCs / 60) x Level. If your five PCs were built using 25 point buy, that's (25 X 5 = 125 / 60 = 2, rounding down) x3 = APL 6. IN THEORY, the group can handle a CR 9 encounter.
In practice, however, what will challenge them without being an "auto TPK" should be gauged at not more than 2 or maybe 3 class levels higher - 1 spell level higher than theirs in other words. So instead of annihilating them with a single 9th level Wizard, the threat is a 5th level adventuring party of 4 or 5 NPCs, or a family of trolls, or a flock of owlbears.
Most encounter CRs for this group should be at APL to APL+2, with the big meanies clocking in at APL +3. This will generally mean pairs or groups of critters/foes for the group if they used a 25 point buy or equivalent.
I've not adjusted the loot any, but they have taken the option/time to buy better gear/sell off what they've found. The main heavy hitter-the barbarian-is rolling with 17(23) str, and a greatsword. Powerattack, cleave, etc.
They didn't do a point buy, they did the 4d6, discard lowest, assign where you want them. They had no prior knowledge of racial bonuses before they assigned scores though.
So i'm looking at the critter CR and the encounter CR being slightly different then, is how it sounds? And the 3540 XP for fighting 5 CR2 and 4 CR1/3 Would be correct then?
Edit, Looking at them being level 3 and having 3000gp in wealth, given their money bags, and gear, they're probably about 500-1000 under.
And the 3540 XP for fighting 5 CR2 and 4 CR1/3 Would be correct then?
No, actually since you have 5 characters (assuming they all take part in the encounter) each CR2 would be worth 150 xp each (for a total of 150x5=750) and each CR1/3 would be worth 35 xp (for a total of 35x4=140). Add those two groups together and you get 890 xp for each character after that encounter. The table is core rulebook page 398.
And the 3540 XP for fighting 5 CR2 and 4 CR1/3 Would be correct then?
No, actually since you have 5 characters (assuming they all take part in the encounter) each CR2 would be worth 150 xp each (for a total of 150x5=750) and each CR1/3 would be worth 35 xp (for a total of 35x4=140). Add those two groups together and you get 890 xp for each character after that encounter. The table is core rulebook page 398.
I was adding up each CR2 and CR 1/3 to get the total of 3540, and then dividing that by 5. I do that because 600 distributed evenly among five players isn't 150. I guess that comes down to RAW vs RAI
Encounter Level or (EL) is mainly just a guideline to give you an overall idea about how challenging an encounter is going to be but experience is not based off of it only individual creatures CRs (as Turin explained above).
That's what i'm saying, each CR 2 is worth 600 overall. And each 1/3 is 135. That is the base value(at least whats shown in the Kingmaker guide for a cr2 and next to cr2 on the table in the PHB). So I add those up and divide by five for a closer point value, as opposed to just rounding up from the actual math of 120xp(600/5) to 150(what the book says to award).
I was adding up each CR2 and CR 1/3 to get the total of 3540, and then dividing that by 5. I do that because 600 distributed evenly among five players isn't 150. I guess that comes down to RAW vs RAI
Ah, I see and understand from your previous post. Yes, you could do that and slow their progress a little if needed. My advice as far as making the encounters more challenging is to make the environments and situations more challenging instead of the straight raising of CR. Put that troll into a dark cave or have it attack at night since they like the dark. I would applaud their resourcefulness in the Staglord encounter and allow them to celebrate a easy victory (there will be plenty more dire situations coming up). I have run the AP through chapter 5 so far and if you want advice on a particular encounter you are about to run just ask but please spoiler it if it is AP specific.
They were rewarded for their resourcefulness, but they all kind of complained it was anti climatic. The barbarian player also had to miss because of work(told us to go on without him). But due to how things played out, Dovan and a majority were sent off by the "stag lord." I'm working in them running into the lagging PC, capturing him, connecting dots, and assaulting the PCs.
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I'm running Kingmaker and I had the same problem that you are having. Right or wrong, I solved it by advancing every monster, making terrain more interesting, and increasing the number of minions as needed. But when I award experience points, I just take the suggested number of XP for the encounter, divide by 4, and award that to each member of the party. This handles the problem that I am playing with more than 4 in a party and makes sure the party is advancing on schedule. I realized that many GMs advocate getting rid of XP in adventure paths, but my players love to get points.
How exactly do you get rid of XP for adventure paths? Just say "oh hey guys, you're level four now?" I mean, I'm not knocking it, but how does it work, based on your best judgement?
But due to how things played out, Dovan and a majority were sent off by the "stag lord." I'm working in them running into the lagging PC, capturing him, connecting dots, and assaulting the PCs.
LOL, I like the way you think. The capturing of the PC (assuming they can pull it off) is a great twist. You might even have them set up an ambush instead of assaulting with the captured PC as bait. Things get tricky when the enemy gets to set up the place of battle and knows your coming, especially if the prisoner is in some sort of danger at the same time.
But due to how things played out, Dovan and a majority were sent off by the "stag lord." I'm working in them running into the lagging PC, capturing him, connecting dots, and assaulting the PCs.
LOL, I like the way you think. The capturing of the PC (assuming they can pull it off) is a great twist. You might even have them set up an ambush instead of assaulting with the captured PC as bait. Things get tricky when the enemy gets to set up the place of battle and knows your coming, especially if the prisoner is in some sort of danger at the same time.
Well, the groups running joke when someone is absent is they had the flu(well the squirts, which led to the flu). So, I've decided that being sick with delirium, he wandered after them using his skill in survival. I'm going against the ambush because currently in the fort are four bandits and Auchs. Outside like I said will be Dovan and three leveled characters(Fighter, rogue, and bard) with the one PC. I figure between the threat outside, and the distraction inside by the bandits it can play out plenty of ways. Be it, negotiation, all out battle royale, etc. Or a race against time, trying to destroy those inside before the gates are opened, or to get to them before the other PC is seriously injured.
Some questions and thoughts (Kingmaker Spoiler): :
Did they deal with the owlbear? Did they discover the mad druid in the basement? These could add a big challenge to the conflict if they were released/decided to come out to investigate. What about the undead surrounding the hill? Have the bandits outside send the prisoner into the zombies midst as a distraction as they try and take out the party. These are options if the party decides not to negotiate. Just some thoughts.
Nope the Owlbear is still there, and they know of the stag lords father(his death was in a bubble of silence), I'm under the assumption that the cellar has a wooden plank/rock over it and that he's decrepit to the point of being unable(or just unwanting) to exit.
The Undead are known of, but have not been dealt with in anyway, deciding to use that as a play for either team, each knows it is there, but who is going to make the grab?
And as far as the Owlbear the groups druid mentioned wanting to try speak with animals on it, and/or an elaborate plan to let it out and free it. Which if they do that, Fights on.
