The table makes clear that the "draw a weapon" action can be taken as part of your move.
The "draw a weapon" action also applies to wands.
This is how I read it, and it's pretty clear to me, but it obviously isn't clear to everybody. So I understand if someone wants to FAQ it.
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What about a monk of the open hand?
You mean a Monk of the Empty Hand? Hooray! You've pointed out an exception to the rule!
You are arguing straw-men. For anyone else, a wand is not a weapon and could not be drawn as a free action while moving.
One might argue that they could call it an "improvised weapon" which is a cheap way to work around the rules. I would then argue (as DM), that they would then have to make a melee (or ranged) attack with said wand. Which, for a weapon that weighs less than an ounce and is nothing more than a glorified stick, won't do much damage (1 hp or maybe 1d2 hp of damage).
So with that in mind, I revise my original position:
Yes, a person could draw a wand (or any other weapon-like object) as a free action during movement as an improvised weapon if that person intends to make a melee or ranged attack with it. A person could not draw said wand or object as a free action during movement if they plan on using the object as it is intended to be used (cast a spell, etc).
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I'm not sure why this is unclear. The "draw a weapon" action clearly states that: "This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands." (Emphasis mine.) That describes the action.
"If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move."
Okay, so since drawing a weapon as an action also applies to "weapon-like objects" as defined above, then it follows that those objects can also be drawn as a free action according to the rule quoted above.
Simple.
I'm not sure why this is unclear. The "draw a weapon" action clearly states that: "This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands." (Emphasis mine.) That describes the action.
"If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move."
Okay, so since drawing a weapon as an action also applies to "weapon-like objects" as defined above, then it follows that those objects can also be drawn as a free action according to the rule quoted above.
Simple.
I have to agree with this. As long as that wand is carried in easy reach like a weapon is, then you can draw it as a free action while moving. This isn't digging it out of a backpack, this is drawing out a wand that's in easy reach and normally takes no more time than drawing a sword out of a sheath.
And yes, I would generally expect players to mark where items are stored. There's a reason most official character sheets have had space for that information. It can be useful to know given situations like these.
That rule consist of two separate paragraphs which I see as two separate subjects.
The first one is referring to drawing a weapon or weaponlike object when it is within reach vs when it is stored in a backpack
The second sentence is strictly referring to drawing a weapon while on the move. If they had wanted the weapon-like clause to apply to the second paragraph they would have allowed them to be one paragraph since it would all be one subject.
Generally speaking if someone introduces a new paragraph they are introducing a new topic.
If it had read as below meaning everything is tied together I would agree.
Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item. Also if you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.
The "this action" is referring to the action in the first paragraph. The 2nd paragraph is an entirely different action.
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clearly it means that as part of his move action, the character stops what he is doing, pulls out a pen an paper, and creates an image depicting his weapon of choice.
I think common sense should rule over any RAW. A wand is a weapon, as it is an object that is capable of inflicting damage, be it by magical means or smacking somebody upside the head with it.
The 2nd paragraph is an entirely different action.Then why do two entirely different actions share the same heading/title?
The subject is drawing or sheathing a weapon.
Each paragraph is a subtopic referring to specific rules. There would be no reason to break them up, if there were mean to go together. The words "this action*" would also have not been used.
*Refers to "Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. "
It then goes on to different action-->pulling a weapon or weapon like object out of a backpack as an example. The weaponlike clause still applies because it mentions "weapon or weapon-like" again.
We then jump to a new paragraph. If the weapon-like clause was intended to apply still it make more sense to reintroduce in a new paragraph instead of put mention it twice in the same paragraph. That way it is clear that it carries over, instead of having the 2nd paragraph be its own sub-topic.
clearly it means that as part of his move action, the character stops what he is doing, pulls out a pen an paper, and creates an image depicting his weapon of choice.
I think common sense should rule over any RAW. A wand is a weapon, as it is an object that is capable of inflicting damage, be it by magical means or smacking somebody upside the head with it.
Weapons in the game are things made to do damage in combat such as daggers and sword. A wand is not mace to bludgeon people to death with. A crowbar is not even a weapon, and it is more likely to be danger than a wand would. Things not made to be weapons are improvised weapons
If you want to argue that anything that can do damage is a weapon then all improvised weapons count as weapons and are valid for quick draw.
An improvised weapon is a weapon in the same sense that a brick is a doorstop. It can be used as one, but that is not its intended purpose.
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The 2nd paragraph is an entirely different action.Then why do two entirely different actions share the same heading/title?The subject is drawing or sheathing a weapon.
Each paragraph is a subtopic referring to specific rules. There would be no reason to break them up, if there were mean to go together. The words "this action*" would also have not been used.
*Refers to "Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. "
It then goes on to different action-->pulling a weapon or weapon like object out of a backpack as an example. The weaponlike clause still applies because it mentions "weapon or weapon-like" again.
We then jump to a new paragraph. If the weapon-like clause was intended to apply still it make more sense to reintroduce in a new paragraph instead of put mention it twice in the same paragraph. That way it is clear that it carries over, instead of having the 2nd paragraph be its own sub-topic.
Paragraphs are not bullets in a list. Paragraphs, when under a common heading, are parts of a whole. None of them exists independently. Every paragraph is further discussion of the same subject (namely, the heading). The topic does not change between paragraphs except as specified.
Choosing to say "weapon" instead of "weapon or weapon-like object" when the concept of equating the two has already been introduced under the same heading is just good writing (avoiding being overly verbose or repetitive), not an attempt to differentiate the subjects of two paragraphs with the same heading.
I have an answer for this. Tie a wand to a dagger.
LOL
They specifically called out weapon-like for two instances. For another paragraph they did not. They also tied it to specific actions.
The action of drawing a weapon-like object as a weapon was not tied to the specific action* in the 3rd paragraph.
*Drawing while moving as a free action.
I will FAQ it if I did not already.
example:
Rights of Suzy and her subordinates.
Suzy you or any of your employees have access to my computer.
Suzy you or any of your employees have access to the the vault.
New paragraph-->Suzy you have access to the company financial data.
I am pretty sure Suzy's employees should not be accessing the company's financial data.
Sorry Wraithstrike, but I gotta agree against you on this one. Drawing a weapon is an action, that is defined; and it is noted as part of that action that you can draw weapon-like objects as well. Next paragraph it says you can draw a weapon (already noted as an action) as part of a move action. It is an action within an action (a subject that is discussed elsewhere in the combat chapter).
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clearly it means that as part of his move action, the character stops what he is doing, pulls out a pen an paper, and creates an image depicting his weapon of choice.
I think common sense should rule over any RAW. A wand is a weapon, as it is an object that is capable of inflicting damage, be it by magical means or smacking somebody upside the head with it.
Weapons in the game are things made to do damage in combat such as daggers and sword. A wand is not mace to bludgeon people to death with. A crowbar is not even a weapon, and it is more likely to be danger than a wand would. Things not made to be weapons are improvised weapons
If you want to argue that anything that can do damage is a weapon then all improvised weapons count as weapons and are valid for quick draw.
An improvised weapon is a weapon in the same sense that a brick is a doorstop. It can be used as one, but that is not its intended purpose.
I mean so far as to the point that if you have a go-to, primary, and/or readied damage dealing device that you use regularly as a weapon and that it is stored on your person in a manner that it can be drawn easily as a sword sheathed on your hip is, then regardless of what type of weapon, weapon-like, or damage device it is, it should be able to be drawn as part of the move action or freely with Quick Draw.
Certainly that spare dagger you have buried in your backpack is not immediately accessible to you and wouldn't be able to be drawn. But if you mainly use wands, I think you could easily have a small quiver of them like you would arrows and be able to grab the one you want and use it in combat.
Certainly using an improvised item to do damage isn't as effective, which is why there are penalties. However, being able to draw and wield it in combat isn't one of them and shouldn't prohibit its use.
Ashiel that is not what it is saying. It is speaking about a specific action, not actions in general. That "this action" comment keeps getting overlooked. There is nothing that says weapons are weapon-like object for other actions.
Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands.
Going back to my previous post they tie the weapon-like object to a specific action in the second sentence also which is when you draw it as a stored object.
It is however never tied to being allowed to be drawn as a free action in the next paragraph.
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Lets see a wand bandoleer or wand quiver added in Ultimate Equipment. Or perhaps an unslotted mundane item that is an adjustable string of wand sized loops that can be slung either over a shoulder or around the waist so that you can store up to 4 wands and have them accessible to be drawn in combat for the purposes of feats and actions that rely on or modify the drawing of "a weapon"
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Ashiel that is not what it is saying. It is speaking about a specific action, not actions in general. That "this action" comment keeps getting overlooked. There is nothing that says weapons are weapon-like object for other actions.
Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands.
It's not that people are overlooking it, it's that we're interpreting it differently than you are.
You're interpreting each paragraph to be describing a separate action, and therefore your favorite clause is only referring to one of them.
Others, however, are treating everything under the heading to be a single action, and therefore your favorite clause actually works against your position.
Really, the only point being argued anymore is just that: whether the different paragraphs list separate and distinct actions, or if they are all describing the same single action. The use of "this action" means something different depending on that point, and is therefore immaterial to the discussion.
Really it is more of the "this action" than anything else. If they had not specifically tied into two specific actions, and split it without tying it tying into the other paragraph I would not disagree.
I see each sentence as way to handle the use of weapon-like objects for the purpose of drawing them. The first one says they count as weapons when sheated. The second says they count as stored object if in a backpack as an example.
They then make a new paragraph, and don't mention weapon-like at all.
This would have been better if that was the intent-->
For the following three scenarios weapon-like objects(examples in parenthesis) count as weapons.
1.list first sentence
2.list second sentence
3.list the 2nd paragraph.
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Really it is more of the "this action" than anything else. If they had not specifically tied into two specific actions, and split it without tying it tying into the other paragraph I would not disagree.
I see each sentence as way to handle the use of weapon-like objects for the purpose of drawing them. The first one says they count as weapons when sheated. The second says they count as stored object if in a backpack as an example.
They then make a new paragraph, and don't mention weapon-like at all.
This would have been better if that was the intent-->
For the following three scenarios weapon-like objects(examples in parenthesis) count as weapons.
1.list first sentence
2.list second sentence
3.list the 2nd paragraph.
I think when it doubt we should generally default to the simplest/logical conclusion. We see that it could perhaps be read as either or, so which has the most sensible result when in practice.
Can I draw a stick (club) from my belt while moving? Yes.
Can I draw a stick (wand) from my belt while moving? No.
Can I enchant the stick (club) to be a wand to get around this? Yes.
Does this make sense? No.
Can I draw a stick (club) from my belt while moving? Yes.
Can I draw a stick (wand) from my belt while moving? Yes.
Does this make sense? Yes.
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from the PRD: section headings are bolded, sections are complete.
Draw or Sheathe a Weapon
Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.
If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.
Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action.
Manipulate an Item
Moving or manipulating an item is usually a move action.
This includes retrieving or putting away a stored item, picking up an item, moving a heavy object, and opening a door. Examples of this kind of action, along with whether they incur an attack of opportunity, are given in Table: Actions in Combat.
On the plus side, if you can't draw a wand as part of a move, being a Vanara becomes a useful option if you want to sling wands around during combat.
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1) If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.
obviously modifies ->
2) Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action.
Which works the same as ->
3) This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands.
So if 1 applies to 2, and 2=3, then 1 applies 3. I don't see how it can be interpreted any other way.
1) If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.
obviously modifies ->
2) Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action.
Which works the same as ->
3) This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands.
So if 1 applies to 2, and 2=3, then 1 applies 3. I don't see how it can be interpreted any other way.
Because the RAW does not say it works that way. It is a valid interpretation, and I the 3.5 sage had the interpretation also, but nothing is tying the 2nd paragraph to the first one.
I retract all earlier post. I just looked the entry up myself. You can only draw weapons while moving as a free action.
The following quote has nothing to do with the paragraph above it.
If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move.I was thinking that the quote I am now presenting was first, and the OP's quote was right after it as a part of the same paragraph.
So since this sentence doesn't apply because it's in a different paragraph:
This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands.
This sentence must also not apply for the same reason:
If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.
Meaning that you can draw a weapon from pretty much anywhere within reach during your move. Your pack, the floor, the table next to you, etc.
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nothing is tying the 2nd paragraph to the first one.
The section header/title is tying the 2nd paragraph to the first one.
Now, feel free to rebut that statement, but currently it's looking like you're saying that "the paragraphs aren't linked because there's nothing linking them" and then saying "X doesn't link them because they're not linked".
Why doesn't the heading/title count as tying the second paragraph to the first one? You need to address that specifically before moving on.
I retract all earlier post. I just looked the entry up myself. You can only draw weapons while moving as a free action.
The following quote has nothing to do with the paragraph above it.
If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move.I was thinking that the quote I am now presenting was first, and the OP's quote was right after it as a part of the same paragraph.So since this sentence doesn't apply because it's in a different paragraph:
This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands.This sentence must also not apply for the same reason:
If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.Meaning that you can draw a weapon from pretty much anywhere within reach during your move. Your pack, the floor, the table next to you, etc.
Picking a weapon up, retrieving a stowed item, and drawing a weapon are all different things.
The 2nd paragraph never allows you to pick a weapon up or take an item out of your backpack. The fact that something is a weapon does not disqualify it as stowed item.
RAW that second sentence only allows you to draw a weapon.
nothing is tying the 2nd paragraph to the first one.The section header/title is tying the 2nd paragraph to the first one.
Now, feel free to rebut that statement, but currently it's looking like you're saying that "the paragraphs aren't linked because there's nothing linking them" and then saying "X doesn't link them because they're not linked".
Why doesn't the heading/title count as tying the second paragraph to the first one? You need to address that specifically before moving on.
The section is called.
Draw or Sheathe a WeaponNow under that section it is just giving you instruction on how to draw weapons for different situations.
Situation 1. The weapon is easy to reach. *
Situation 2. The weapon is hard to reach.*
For both of these they included weapon-like objects.*
Situation 3 you are on the move and want to draw a weapon. They are allowing you to draw a weapon, and only a weapon as a free action.
For the sake of arguement-->If the devs wanted to write it so that the second paragraph was its sub-ruling, how should they have done so?
For the sake of arguement-->If the devs wanted to write it so that the second paragraph was its sub-ruling, how should they have done so?
I think they did just fine with the text as it is now. You can't write everything to defend against over-pedantic interpretation. Everything would be in legalese and would be even harder to parse.
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For the sake of arguement-->If the devs wanted to write it so that the second paragraph was its sub-ruling, how should they have done so?
Are you asking how I think it would have been written if it were intended to mean what you say?
One option would be to add a "(but not weapon-like objects)" clause in that second paragraph.
Another option would be this: consider for a moment that Quickdraw doesn't work with wands, and that retrieving an item provokes AoO's. Therefore, if you can't draw a wand as part of movement, then the only difference between pulling out a wand and retrieving any other item is the AoO. If it was the intent that this be the only difference, then they easily could have left all reference to wands out of the "Draw a Weapon" section and instead added a caveat in "Retrieve an Item" that a wand or similar item doesn't provoke. This would even save them text in Quickdraw, as the exclusion clause would then be redundant.
A third option would be to use another header, this time saying something like "Draw on the Move". This would make it unequivocally clear that it was a separate action from "Draw or Sheathe a Weapon".
Those three are just off the top of my head. Yet none of them was employed.
I agree that if you can pull a greatsword you can pull wand, but you can also pull/draw other items that are not weapons also or even weapon-like.
I do see that I have less supporters than normal so I may very well be wrong. :)
Now to decide how to handle it at home. :)
It is my belief that in the interest of word count, the writers chose to operate under the assumption that readers knew how headings and section titles worked.
If only they could have also done so in other headings and sections...
e.g. Attack Action containing Critical Hit and Natural Attack and Ranged Attack info.--------------------
@wraithstrike: sorry for pulling the improvised weapon thing... ;-)
I do see that I have less supporters than normal so I may very well be wrong. :)
What should
I do see that I have less supporters than normal so I may very well be wrong. :)What should ** spoiler omitted **
you is that Ashiel and I agree pretty much 100%. :)
LOL. I noticed that. I had to read it twice to make sure I was seeing it correctly.
I do see that I have less supporters than normal so I may very well be wrong. :)What should ** spoiler omitted **
you is that Ashiel and I agree pretty much 100%. :)
We shall sing hymns and rejoice, for the messiah must be on the way! ^-^
*gives mdt a ball of string to play with* :D
"Puny String..."
"Puny String..."
Today is a good day. ^-^
If you're a pixie, maybe wand=club; for a medium creature, though, wand=pencil.
If you're a pixie, maybe wand=club; for a medium creature, though, wand=pencil.
A tiny club is still a club. :P
LOL
Not only is a wand built as a tiny club negligable weight, it's also a weapon (which would make Wraith happy), and you threaten with it as well. :)
LOL
Not only is a wand built as a tiny club negligable weight, it's also a weapon (which would make Wraith happy), and you threaten with it as well. :)
This kind of reminds me of the "Pixie's Lance". In Neverwinter Nights, there's a +3 dagger that has some sort of magic ability, but the backstory is quite amusing. Basically, it's not actually a dagger, but a pixie-sized longspear, which was recovered from the corpse of a mage who kind of trifled with the wrong fey. Because the spear is so small, it's a simple weapon that can be wielded in 1 hand by a medium sized creature and deals 1d4 damage; so in the game it's a "dagger". :P
A wand is not a club, Tallkid.
At least not until I see a rules quote saying otherwise.