Caravan stuck in Sandpoint?!

[Uthak]

OK my players just reached the spot in book one of the AP to get the caravan. The problem is as I'm looking through the info I have noticed a small problem. The party is 6 players strong...looking at the rules, this means they have 12 travelers & and a traveler cap of 10. According to the rules this means the caravan can not move. Now this is before they spend the plot money to make upgrades, if they buy an extra wagon so they have the room they still wont go anywhere as they don't have enough people in the party that can act as a driver so they will have to hire one and thus go over their traveler cap.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how to fix this.

[Drejk]

[looking through Jade Regent Player Guide] If they have traveler capacity of 10 and add one covered wagon their traveler limit increases by 6 easily supporting the full party and an additional driver.

BTW: player guide mentions Sandru as one of the drivers, two brothers as second and third. Maybe Shalelu has Handle Animal skill?

[NicolasNix]

If your players have horses or mounts, they do not take up a space on a wagon and it will continue to move forward. The horse/mount will take up 1 more consumption, but you will be able to move.

[Uthak]

@ Nicolas was that a change made in an errata, as it reads in the players guide.

Travelers: Travelers are all creatures who belong to
the caravan with the exception of any draft animals used
to pull the wagons. Player characters, NPCs, animal
companions, mounts, and cohorts are all considered
travelers for this purpose. Familiars are covered by their
master as far as traveler count is concerned.

So as I read it if the bought mounts, they would be in more out of luck as their traveler count would jump to 18(6 mounts for the PC's) & their consumption score would jump to a 26 and the 3 wagon caravan in the AP has a cargo cap of 18. that would mean not only can they not leave town but now they starve as well.

@ Drejk The AP list jobs the major NPC's can do and Shalelu will only do the jobs of guide, scout, or passenger. After looking over the groups character sheets the ranger of the party can drive a wagon if they buy one ,however they will still be pushing the limits of their food supply.

I have tried to do some mock up builds just to prepare myself for how they might work it and I see this as a major buzz kill for them. It seems to me that the rules where only made for a party of 4 characters, this is a major over site in my opinion....I would like some help as to way to fix this.

[Power. Tyranny. Destruction.]

The best suggestion I can give you is to ditch the caravan rules. They are at best a headache (as you're discovering) and at worst aren't balanced against some of the encounters as written (see plenty of other threads on the subject).

I started incorporating a pared-down version of the caravan rules into my game that removed the extra tier of non-character-level rules i.e. the caravan stats. However, I've recently found that even these rules are becoming a headache to incorporate and keep the verisimilitude of the game. This AP puts plenty of pressure on a GM with the tag-along NPCs as it is, you don't need a bunch of rules on top of that, especially rules that don't quite work right.

I have begun thinking of ways that the party can ditch the caravan altogether and it will make sense for the story and the PCs and the NPCs. I'm very much looking forward to that day and bringing this campaign back to focussing on the PCs and not having them feel like they're being led around by the nose by events and NPCs and aren't in control of their own destinies.

Basically, what I'm saying is, if I could start this AP again knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have had the caravan involved at all. Heck, if I couldn't convince my players to take the roles of the NPCs I'd probably have left most of the NPCs out of it too so that the players can realistically take the spotlight and aren't wondering why they're doing all the legwork.

[Mistwalker]

Uthak wrote:

So as I read it if the bought mounts, they would be in more out of luck as their traveler count would jump to 18(6 mounts for the PC's) & their consumption score would jump to a 26 and the 3 wagon caravan in the AP has a cargo cap of 18. that would mean not only can they not leave town but now they starve as well.

@ Drejk The AP list jobs the major NPC's can do and Shalelu will only do the jobs of guide, scout, or passenger. After looking over the groups character sheets the ranger of the party can drive a wagon if they buy one ,however they will still be pushing the limits of their food supply.

On page 22 of the guide, Stores: each cargo unit of stores is worth 10 provisions, so will feed 10 for a day (be they mount, animal companion or humanoid). Your 18 cargo units, if used only for provisions will feed 180, or your party of 12 for 15 days.

Your party of 6 will need to add at least one wagon, maybe more, depending of if you choose supply wagon, covered wagon, masterwork wagon, armored wagon, etc.

I bumped Koya up a level, so that she would have access to create food and water, and calculated how many she could feed a day and modified the required provision per day.

I am reading what jobs Shalelu will do differently than you. It states that she can do the guard, scout or passenger jobs. I took it to mean that those jobs were optimal for her, not that she will only do those ones.

My players have spent the majority of their gold on upgrading the caravan, including buying two armored wagons, two masterwork wagons and upgrading Sandru's wagons to masterwork wagons. And they have hired 4 drivers for their wagons.

I disagree with Power.Tyranny.Destruction. I believe that the caravan set up is a nice one, providing a mobile base for the players (including a place to do some enchanting) and a fallback position if/when they need to withdraw to heal up or have someone to back them up. Like many others, I have adapted the rules for caravans, based on the feedback of the authors and others who have done the higher level combats that are in the later books, but I still think the caravan idea is a nice one.

[Old Drake]

Power.Tyranny.Destruction.: I can see a lot of trouble with the caravan rules as written, but I think the greatest problem with the rules is that they don't explain what the caravan is.
The caravan doesn't exist to trade, make money, or anything else. It is a mobile home. Not a home away from home, but a home. A place to live and to work. A mobile base of operation.
The wagons aren't there so much to transport you, but to give shelter in the night; shelter that will suffice in the most hostile weather and climate known to man. They are there to transport any and all kinds of tools you may need. To be ready for every eventuality.
Without the caravan, how would you cross the arctic? Okay, maybe you could turn a single wagon into a bag of holding and summon steeds to pull it, but without such high-magic expensive solutions, you'll depend on a caravan to slug your way through. I guess Wind walking would also work, but you'd effectively avoid all of book 3 and 4; and maybe 5, if the party goes straight to the capital.

I can also see the problem with the NPCs, especially after the first book. They acted logically in the first book, even if the book made them out a bit too compliant with the PCs demands; after that however they seemed far too passive and seemed to be only there to be targeted by the plot every so often. The DM could handle them, but he was left without guidance (beside repeated nagging to make them bad computer-gamy NPCs that just go along with the PC's decisions).
But without these NPCs, your party will be stuck without any recurring characters. Now some groups don't mind that, but most groups find it irritating if they can't form any form of lasting contact to NPCs; when they're always dealing with new people. The lack of lasting NPCs is brought up as a weakness in APs that don't have them.
That said, the NPCs are selected poorly, because there is no way to bring them to life without having them tag along all the time.
Ameiko: After learning of her heritage, Ameiko fears above all that she would proof herself unworthy of her ancestors and lead 'her country; to failure. And she's ashamed that her family abandoned their divine responsibility to their country. So she is now obsessed with preparing herself for ruling; in Karlsgard she will be in the oriental quarter most of the time studying history and culture, talking with locals, and trusting the party to retrieve the sword and secure a guide. The attempt on her life shakes her far more than she is ever likely to admit, and she becomes very worried about what should happen if she were to die; after a period of withdrawal, she'll act as cook and entertainer, and pretend to be utterly normal, until it becomes time to step into the light and assume leadership. At that point she'll take control of the Ronin and shortly after the northern provinces, while the party infiltrates the capital.
Koya: Cripple her. One leg was bitten off by a troll, and she is now barely mobile. She still loves traveling and her healing services make her a good addition to any caravan, but she certainly won't go adventuring. Give her an acolyte (cleric in training) that helps her around, and you should be fine.
Sandru: He takes care of the caravan and the minutia of traveling from taxes to dealing with food merchants. While he is willing to travel into dangerous areas, he'll never abandon his home to go on an adventure. Even to safe the life of a member of the caravan. He might send the caravan guards (or the PCs), but would never go himself. This is more because he realizes his limitations than fear. The caravan is his life; if it is in direct danger, he will fight to the death without hesitation.
Shalelu: She is the most difficult of the NPCs. Honestly I'd simply remove her. There is no way to justify her staying behind with that background and motivation. The changes to her motivation would make her a completely new character, so you might as well start from the beginning and make a NPC that fits how you expect your campaign to go. A wizard that decided to retire for good and is specialized on magic item creation would probably be very much welcomes by the players, though there are many roles an important NPC could fill during such a journey.

Once the NPC actions during the various books make sense, it should become far easier to roleplay them. There's of course always the danger the players might take a dislike in one or more of them, but that's where DM responsibility comes in.

[James Jacobs]

Raise the cap by 2. Simple solution.

[Uthak]

Ok going back through it looks like I miscalculated the parties consumption score the trip to Brinewall can be done if they build the caravan right and pack right. raising the "traveler cap" on all the original wagons by 1 they can do it....the plan then if asked is to tell the players that these are left over wagons from Sandrus' old caravan that he had modified and he is lending them to Ameiko so she doesn't have to start from scratch starting her caravan.

Thanks for all the help.