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So I had this idea for a large dungeon/adventure that takes place in Cheliax. What I am wondering is whether its too far fetched to fit neatly into Golarion canon, and if not, what needs changing to make a better fit into the world.
The idea is pretty basic:
Cheliax has a secret prison, essentially its a hole in the ground that leads into an abandoned dwarven gem and crystal mine. When I say hole in the ground we are talking easily a half mile deep within Golarion. It is nearish to Westcrown, but in the middle of nowhere making it perfect for its intended purpose.
Cheliax uses this prison for two main things:
Imprisoning abyssal creatures: Because its better to lock them away somewhere they cannot escape from, rather than kill them outright and risk the chance they will just go back to the Abyss to return (Or be resummoned) later.
Putting prisoners which need to disappear off the face of Golarion, with no body left behind. Again, because with a body they can be resurrected/raised/reincarnated and/or in the case of political prisoners to ensure their untimely demise doesn't give them martyr status.
The adventure premise is also pretty simple. The PCs are prisoners who have caused enough trouble to House Thrune and Queen Abrogail to warrant being chucked into this prison. They will be literally chained together, and put into this place without any gear and just a few rags of prison clothes for modesty.
What the government of Cheliax doesn't know, is that there is a way out of this prison, via an underground river that goes through the Darklands, but eventually allows egress to the surface. The catch being the PCs must survive the prison, find out about the river and get to it (Its at the very bottom of this multi-level prison) then survive the trip downriver and any Darklands encounters that they run into (Like an inconveniently placed Drow town.)
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So as I asked, does this idea seem too far fetched to fit in neatly with Golarion canon? Does it seem too trite? Simplistic? Just plain bad? I would like some feedback, and advice from experienced gamemasters and players alike.
Thanks in advance to any willing to read and reply!
Okay, a few things
• This prison is for people/creatures that the kingdom cannot afford to kill, for whatever reason. So you need a reason that they haven't just been off'd.
Only thing I can think of offhand is that the PCs aren't supposed to be in this prison. They're prisoners, for sure, but somehow the transfer schedule got mixed up, sending the PCs behind cold iron bars (and putting a truly dangerous being in light security at the same time…)
• The prison is built to securely contain powerful and influential creatures. So, you need a reason why the PCs can get out now.
Running from the idea in the last point, perhaps the powerful criminal escaped from his newfound light custody and laid seige to the cold iron prison in order to free the rest of his gang.
Or something unrelated might happen - freak storm, earthquake, it came from below…
• How do the PCs get geared up again? Presumably none of their gear will have been sent to the prison, as no one who goes in is supposed to come out.
Robbing the guards? Finding the remains of dead adventurers? Taken in by underground dwellers and outfitted for a price?
Keep in mind that some gear is essential to certain classes - formula/spell books, holy symbols; familiars and companions are likewise necessary. All of which would be confiscated before the PCs would get locked up.
I would tell players with companion creatures to not pick them yet, and then later work with them to find some cool Darklands companions for them.
As far as the spellbooks go… I'd have a wizard opponent show up early, with plenty of spells in his book that alchemists, wizards, and magi can all use. More than one caster if need be, depending on your group. (Could be a magus and wizard duo)
• How long do you want this adventure to be? Done in an evening? 3-4 sessions? 6 book adventure path?
And last but not least...drop some hints about the river. My players cheif complaint about extended puzzles or mysteries in my last game is that I gave too few clues and kept telling them to "try anything" but in a less-than-well-defined homebrew world they didn't know where to start.
Maybe the whole thing starts when someone/thing gets out of the prison and while the Queen's elite are looking for it some powerful patron sets the party up to figure out how he/she/it accomplished the escape in the first place.
If that's the case: maybe the party's in on the setup, but maybe not. This patron however might have their gear delivered in some fashion, maybe even contacts them after the fact on the inside.
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Okay, a few things
• This prison is for people/creatures that the kingdom cannot afford to kill, for whatever reason. So you need a reason that they haven't just been off'd.[
Only thing I can think of offhand is that the PCs aren't supposed to be in this prison. They're prisoners, for sure, but somehow the transfer schedule got mixed up, sending the PCs behind cold iron bars (and putting a truly dangerous being in light security at the same time…)
That's a good idea, better than mine. My original idea was more along the lines of them having committed a crime or crimes sufficient enough to warrant being cast into the prison.
• The prison is built to securely contain powerful and influential creatures. So, you need a reason why the PCs can get out now.
Running from the idea in the last point, perhaps the powerful criminal escaped from his newfound light custody and laid seige to the cold iron prison in order to free the rest of his gang.
Or something unrelated might happen - freak storm, earthquake, it came from below…
What I had in mind is either:
A> The egress to the river is small, and guarded by something on the other side (An Aboleth perhaps).
B> Earthquest (As you suggested) or something like a Thoqqua tunneling through the area made the hole recently.
• How do the PCs get geared up again? Presumably none of their gear will have been sent to the prison, as no one who goes in is supposed to come out.
Robbing the guards? Finding the remains of dead adventurers? Taken in by underground dwellers and outfitted for a price?
Keep in mind that some gear is essential to certain classes - formula/spell books, holy symbols; familiars and companions are likewise necessary. All of which would be confiscated before the PCs would get locked up.
Fortunately this problem isn't so insurmountable, and I had thought about it already. Cheliax had sent both Hellknights and independent adventurers to scout this place befoe they turned it into a prison. None of them returned, so ostensibly their gear is still down their with their living, dead or undead bodies.
I would tell players with companion creatures to not pick them yet, and then later work with them to find some cool Darklands companions for them.
Definitely sound advice, that I will certainly use.
As far as the spellbooks go… I'd have a wizard opponent show up early, with plenty of spells in his book that alchemists, wizards, and magi can all use. More than one caster if need be, depending on your group. (Could be a magus and wizard duo)
The adventurer thing above should handle spellbooks as well, but as of this post it looks like we'll have a sorceress so its not a big deal.
• How long do you want this adventure to be? Done in an evening? 3-4 sessions? 6 book adventure path?
I don't have a set timetable, it will be primarily player driven once they are inside the prison. However the prison is going to be 3-5 levels deep, plus the Darklands part which will be an adventure unto itself.
And last but not least...drop some hints about the river. My players cheif complaint about extended puzzles or mysteries in my last game is that I gave too few clues and kept telling them to "try anything" but in a less-than-well-defined homebrew world they didn't know where to start.
That might be a good idea, I was expecting survival to motivate the PCs to trek downward and have them stumble across the river by accident. But clues might indeed help motivate them further.
Maybe the whole thing starts when someone/thing gets out of the prison and while the Queen's elite are looking for it some powerful patron sets the party up to figure out how he/she/it accomplished the escape in the first place.
Part of the point of this adventure is to throw the PCs together, never having met before and force them to rely on and learn about one another while they try to survive the situation they are in. Kind of a sink or swim thing.
If that's the case: maybe the party's in on the setup, but maybe not. This patron however might have their gear delivered in some fashion, maybe even contacts them after the fact on the inside.
Part of the point of this adventure is to throw the PCs together, never having met before and force them to rely on and learn about one another while they try to survive the situation they are in. Kind of a sink or swim thing.
Perhaps have them go through the first portion of the adventure manacled together with adamantine. The manacles would have the benefit of helping them out when climbing or if one of them falls into the river, but keeps them from splitting up. Of course have something prepared to break the manacles without just giving them an adamantine weapon (unless said weapon is something you want in their hands).
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Heh, the whole idea reminds me of this old CRPG, "Exile: Escape from the Pit"...
Only thing I can think of offhand is that the PCs aren't supposed to be in this prison. They're prisoners, for sure, but somehow the transfer schedule got mixed up, sending the PCs behind cold iron bars (and putting a truly dangerous being in light security at the same time…)
Or maybe they were guarding a prisoner transfer and, guess what, it's just much cheaper to let you escort the prisoners into there, and close the door after the whole bunch of you guys.
Or maybe they're in a holy penitence quest. There are folks with weird fetishes in Cheliax.
• The prison is built to securely contain powerful and influential creatures. So, you need a reason why the PCs can get out now.
Because the creatures inside the prison are busy killing among themselves. Demons trying to kill dæmons, dæmons trying to kill demons, no-one is actually looking for an exit.
• How do the PCs get geared up again?
If there are any kind of lawful evils inside, they're going to set up camps, cities, industries and shops. Chaotic evils are going to raid and steal supplies from there.
Make use of crafting, add some "get me some dæmon bile for my magic research and I'll pay you with equipment" quests.
I did something like this for a marvel super heroes game once. All the heroes were contacted in their secret identities by a mysterious patron who knew their id's. They assembled independently in a warehouse and then received a cryptic message from the patron on a monitor, which was then interrupted by a dreadnaught attack. The robots ran amok and blew up the place doing serious damage and harming innocents.
The heroes were blamed and spent the rest of the first adventure clearing their names. They slowly got acquainted w/their patron through different sources - it turned out it was an old hero from a previous campaign and that his enemies were behind the smear job w/the dreadnaughts as a way to lure him out of hiding.
Maybe your heroes are the A-team; sent to the super-prison for crimes they didn't commit. Once on the inside the only thing they have in common is that they have these weird scrolls in their bunks - messages from the patron. From there they forge a friendship out of survival and figure their way out...w/a little help from the mastermind on the outside.
Think of Neo leaving his job at the beginning of the Matrix. After all the matrix is a prison...for your mind. Perhaps the heroes are literally given step-by-step instructions to navigate the prison...
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I like it.
Here is the problem I see and it is in the suspension of realism.
1. Many Abyssal creature can Teleport at will.
+ Demons hate everything would they just outrightly kill any mortal they ran across? Without magic the CR of even the lowest Demon is way higher due to Defensive and Spell likes.
* You will need some natural phenomenon that prevents extra dimensional travel.
I've run a few "imprisoned/enslaved" campaigns in the past and while they are fun to run, I wouldn't make the imprisonment last too long because it does get tiresome for the players to constantly be trying to survive with no provisions, monster cr's are built with the wealth by level system in mind, some classes will do better in this type of situation while others will be completely useless. A monk for example will still have his wis. To ac and unarmed attacks, the fighter however will be taking attack of opportunities galore from anyone he tries to punch. You mentioned a sorcerer in the party which will help not having to rely on a spell book but they are a squishy class and with the tank more or less turned into a toy the sorcerer may be put into melee situations.
Ways I've made up for this kindof party abuse is to give them better stuff than they would normally have had once they escape, or by adjusting the monsters they encounter to be easier or worth more xp. You mentioned that there were scouting parties in the past but that equipment would have been found long ago by other prisoners and would already be in use by the other inhabitants of the prison
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I see this as working best with a high level (10+) established party that has made a name already in Cheliax. After getting enough fame and support they become the very sort of rival the government can't just execute outright, so they are imprisoned. Higher levels will allow PCs a true fighting chance against demons and other vicious prisoners when unequipped.
I was also wondering about the ability of outsiders to teleport. What is keeping them in? What is keeping people on the outside from using magic to contact or locate their friends or loved ones in the prison? It could be that nothing is preventing any of that. If so, the challenge becomes surviving long enough to gain enough levels for the party sorceress to learn the Teleport spell.
I like it.
Here is the problem I see and it is in the suspension of realism.
1. Many Abyssal creature can Teleport at will.
+ Demons hate everything would they just outrightly kill any mortal they ran across? Without magic the CR of even the lowest Demon is way higher due to Defensive and Spell likes.* You will need some natural phenomenon that prevents extra dimensional travel.
This is why I mentioned Cold Iron before - though to be honest, RAW Cold Iron doesn't prevent magic from being used - it simply bypasses many Chaotic creatures' damage reduction and is difficult to enchant. I still like it, thematically. Working within the rules, the entire place could be under an anti-magic zone. This brings up new problems for the PCs - those with magic are less useful until they escape, and once they do they need to close up their escape route or risk demons coming after them and regaining their powers.
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I like it.
Here is the problem I see and it is in the suspension of realism.
1. Many Abyssal creature can Teleport at will.
+ Demons hate everything would they just outrightly kill any mortal they ran across? Without magic the CR of even the lowest Demon is way higher due to Defensive and Spell likes.* You will need some natural phenomenon that prevents extra dimensional travel.
First off, thanks everyone for the great suggestions and advice, this is much more feedback than I expected.
I kind of had an idea about the teleportation issue, but was concerned it sounded a little trite or too much like a blatant plot device.
As this was a crystal/gem mine at one time, the walls are naturally permeated with certain crystals that interfere with any sort teleporation magic. That includes things like Dimension Door, Teleport, Gates and portals -- Which is why the Chelaxian government selected it as an ideal spot to imprison troublesome outsiders.