RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Charlie suggests Achaekek had something to do with Aroden's death. If so, it was a strange assignment: Achaekek, the assassin of the gods, gets sent after those so full of hubris that they challenge the gods. Killing the acknowledged god of humanity seems a break with that.
Honestly, I would have been surprised if there was not some oceanic trauma from Aroden's passing. He's an Azlanti, and the mantle of the Azlanti is claimed by the gill-men. He received his godly rank as an accidental side-effect of the Great Darkness brought about by the aboleth, who are still around.
My guess, given the influence of Erik Mona: there's a "lost dungeon" adventure down in the deeps, in the center of the eye. Don't even think about trying to navigate it until you're 18th level. Like the Dread Pirate Hurley's analysis of the Worldwound, that area is neither the cause of Aroden's destruction nor an artifact, but an aftereffect that provides hints and a clue or two.
I have another suspect in mind: Mengkare. Recall, the gold dragon founded Hermia, out in the Arcadian Ocean, for the purpose of perfecting humanity, and he did so while Aroden was still alive, and prophesied to return in his glory. That is to say, a very powerful being looked at Aroden and/or the hypothetical futures that the prophets foretold, and decided that what it saw was either irrelevant to his plans for humanity's growth, or was an active impediment.
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Let's say a DM wanted to create their own theory for what lies at the center of the Eye. Let's say Aroden's corpse resides at the center, deep beneath the ocean. Let's say, somehow (magic) someone was able to resurrect this corpse as some kind of horrible "super-lich" abomination. What do you think the CR for said "super-lich" would be?
Midi-chlorians I say.
i'm gonna stick with the theory that the Eye was the result of the 'super magical shockwave' that resonated around the world when Aroden died. given that theory, almost anything could be at the center of that storm. the storm itself could even be some kind of super massive elemental being that was brought into existence the moment Aroden kicked the bucket.
incidentally...the idea that Aroden died to break the bonds of prophecy is something that's been kicking around the back of my head since Kingmaker came out. lets just say that some of the details of the last adventure in that series give one some rather interesting insights about the state of prophecy in the pathfinder setting.
Achaekek is actually the one Being who couldn't have killed Aroden. He's unable to harm Deities.
Are we sure about that, though? I am certainly not as familiar as probably most of the people here, but could Aroden have been vulnerable to Achaekek due to the method by which he ascended to godhood (ie, a mortal passing the Test of the Starstone)?
Achaekek is actually the one Being who couldn't have killed Aroden. He's unable to harm Deities.Are we sure about that, though? I am certainly not as familiar as probably most of the people here, but could Aroden have been vulnerable to Achaekek due to the method by which he ascended to godhood (ie, a mortal passing the Test of the Starstone)?
Unlikely. First of all, passing the Starstone is legitimate ascension to godhood; otherwise, Norgorber, Iomedae and Cayden would all be potential targets. By that logic, Irori would also be a potential target, as he ascended through his own enlightenment. On top of that, if Achaekek had done so, it certainly would not have gone unnoticed. Aroden wouldn't have gone out without a fight, and fights between gods don't go unnoticed. Remember, Pharasma is the only other deity who really has any reasonable chance of actually knowing what happened, and she's not telling. If there were a way for Iomedae to know, she would know. She and Aroden were a bit close.
Is there a possibility that Aroden's not actually dead, just silenced and MIA?
Is there a possibility that Aroden's not actually dead, just silenced and MIA?
I'm too lazy to search for it, but I do believe the dev team has indicated that Aroden is dead...they just don't talk about the details.
Who was it who earlier opined that Aroden essentially committed suicide to avoid fulfilling a prophesy linked to him? As the god of prophesy he would have known exactly what would come to pass, and by refusing to act or fulfill the prophesy he created a paradox and destroyed himself.
Given this hypothesis, the breaking of prophesy makes sense as it basically unraveled due to the discontinuity that Aroden caused. I'm not sure what the implications about Pharasma are in this case.
I'm not sure what the implications for the Eye are. Maybe in the tradition of Greek tragedy, the prophesy came true somehow because of Aroden trying to avoid it. Either that or the world just tilted out of whack in which case I guess that everyone is lucky that Rovagug didn't get out and the Eye happened instead.
I remember reading about an old hermit that has lived on the coast who spends his time staring into the eye the storm for the past 100 years on Megelogotti Island in the Inner Sea World guide.
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Aroden was murdered by the rulers of Paizo. This is why they know what happened but will not tell us.
(Which of course could be said about deceased fictional character and its author.)
If Aroden was murdered, who benefits? Who had the means and the opportunity?
Perhaps a very unlikely suspect, given her alignment and tendencies, but Iomedae certainly has benefited from Aroden's death, and would have had both means and opportunity given their close relationship. Motive, though- that one eludes me.
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Hmmm... Could there be a planar gate in the center of the Eye of Abendego? That could explain the giant whirlpool, and also why it stays constant and stationary.
I like to think that a Sphere of Annihilation has something to do with the Eye of Abendego. After all, Classic Treasures Revisited hints at such a possibility.
"A sphere deposited within a lake or volcanic chamber would, in short order, form a massive whirlpool before finally draining the water or molten rock away like a vampire bleeding its victim dry, leaving only an alluvial crater or empty basalt hollow behind. Lodged in the depths of a sea, it might drain that as well, given enough time, but from its first immersion it would certainly form a whirlpool, even altering ocean currents if given enough time."
I'm thinking that would certainly alter weather and currents given the time frame we are talking about since Aroden's death. Also explains a stationary, ever-lasting storm.
Perhaps we're even talking about some kind of super-massive Sphere of Annihilation? Of course, I don't know how that could tie-in with Aroden.
Perhaps we're even talking about some kind of super-massive Sphere of Annihilation? Of course, I don't know how that could tie-in with Aroden.
Going back to OD&D and the Gold Box Immortals and Masters sets, the Blackballs were said to be the tools of the Old Ones (Overgods) sent to punish Immortals, and were one of the things that could drain and completely annihilate the Immortals.
Blackballs were basically just mobile versions of the AD&D Sphere of Annihilation (and were later 'ported over to 3E's Epic Handbook as the Umbral Blot). I don't think there is currently a Pathfinder version of the Blackball, but maybe someone sicced one of those on Aroden?
Perhaps we're even talking about some kind of super-massive Sphere of Annihilation? Of course, I don't know how that could tie-in with Aroden.
As has been said by Cthulhudrew with far more background, "so, maybe Aroden just touched a Sphere of Anihilation" was the ovious conclusion.
OR the SoA in the Eye of Abendego is a result of Aroden's death. Or maybe even his corpse.
Has anyone actually seen the body of Aroden yet? My theory is that the eye he where he fell. But no evidence to support that one. In my campaign I have the divine paradox that is Arodens corpse acting as the aforementioned theorised 'giant sphere if anhilation'.
Back to speculation.As for the 'who had motive/who gains from this' side of things.
That list includes:
The House of Thrune
Asmodeus
Deskari
Enemies of Prophecy
Potentially many others, I think the Lirgeni may have been on to something. Didn't their high caste commit mass suicide when they learnt some dark truth? like the cause of the eye?
Specifically speculating on whether the Saoc Brethren knew something. Their nation collapsed due to the eye, and their culture was based on prophecy so that was hardly a solid foundation... The wiki and Ithink the inner sea guide refer to this 'mass suicide' after learning some aweful truth in AR 4615. This could be as simple as learning how long the storm would last, despair for their nation or loss of prophecy, or they could have learned something vital. Time for some speak with dead spells?
What's interesting is the Astrological connection for Lirgeni prophecy. Could some player from the Dark Tapestry have played a role? Some entity with designs on Golarion that required Aroden silenced or just plain removed from the equation?
So what was the direct cause of the fall of Lung Wa?
because it is directly opposite from the Eye, they were caught in a Negative Space Wedgie. eewwwwwwwww...
(Science-Bard explains it all! Baecause the Eye is actually a portal to a distant and obscure dimension Jur-Zehshor, there is an inverse infarction on our world. This is cause by the massive pressure built up between our cooler climate interacting with their hot air. This is the cause of the collapse of Lung Wa. It simply could not withstand the awesome and horrible pressure pulling it into oblivion)
Who was it who earlier opined that Aroden essentially committed suicide to avoid fulfilling a prophesy linked to him? As the god of prophesy he would have known exactly what would come to pass, and by refusing to act or fulfill the prophesy he created a paradox and destroyed himself.
I know prophecies stopped working when he died. But he wasn't the god of prophecy was he? I thought he was the god of humanity.
Anyone besides me who read the title of this thread thought "Eye of Agamotto"?
I didn't, but it's about the storm supreme.
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Aroden was the god of Humanity, Innovation, and History.
I was just reading Giants revisited and a thought occurred to me. The cyclopes of Ghol-gan. When Aroden died they quickly descended into Barbarism didn't they? In addition they were Prophetic too. And said to be so hubristic they declared themselves gods. Could they have murdered Aroden and the backlash from his death by prophetic individuals shattered prophecy?
I remember reading about an old hermit that has lived on the coast who spends his time staring into the eye the storm for the past 100 years on Megelogotti Island in the Inner Sea World guide.
I remember reading that entry and thought it was curious. I also recall but could be mistaken but isnt the hermit blind. What if Aroden's divinity is what was destroyed. And all thats left is a blind husk and Aroden's divinity is trapped in the Eye.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The Hermit 'appears to be' deaf and mute. And plays a not insignificant part of my home game! ^_~
When I was reading up on him, I initially thought he was blind also...
Weird.
Maybe he's waiting to Shrieve Aroden of his sins?
And now, all in my own countree,
I stood on the firm land!
The Hermit stepp'd forth from the boat,
And scarcely he could stand.
"O shrieve me, shrieve me, holy man!"
The Hermit cross'd his brow.
"Say quick," quoth he, "I bid thee say—
What manner of man art thou?"
Forthwith this frame of mine was wrench'd
With a woful agony,
Which forced me to begin my tale;
And then it left me free.
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I just happened to be skimming the Inner Sea Guide's section on The Sodden Lands for the fallen nation on Lirgen and -- speaking of how Aroden died -- apparently some of the surviving members of the Lirgen upper-hierarchy tried to find out and apparently when they did, they commited ritual suicide!!!
Any other eyebrows raise at that?
I just happened to be skimming the Inner Sea Guide's section on The Sodden Lands for the fallen nation on Lirgen and -- speaking of how Aroden died -- apparently some of the surviving members of the Lirgen upper-hierarchy tried to find out and apparently when they did, they commited ritual suicide!!!
Any other eyebrows raise at that?
First rule of Fight Club: Don't talk about Fight Club.
I just happened to be skimming the Inner Sea Guide's section on The Sodden Lands for the fallen nation on Lirgen and -- speaking of how Aroden died -- apparently some of the surviving members of the Lirgen upper-hierarchy tried to find out and apparently when they did, they commited ritual suicide!!!
Any other eyebrows raise at that?
Nah I missed that!
That's kinda freaky cool. Thanks for the point!
Referencing the OP's original question, a quick variation on the idea of what's causing/source of the Eye of Abendedgo might be that it is something related to one of Aroden's exploits from traveling Golarion.
Unlike many of the other Gods, got to remember that Aroden was walking around doing "amazing things" on his own (no heralds or avatars)before he ever left the planet in deitific ascension. I am not sure whether he was doing these things as just a long-lived human or a full-fledged deity - maybe a combination of that.
*Raised the Starstone from the ocean bottom; essentially creating a key for anyone to achieve godhood.
*Helped found three major nations (Taldor, Cheliax, Absalom).
*Killed Tar-Baphon, apparently one of the most powerful wizards to exist.
*Had a hand in keeping Sarkoris from a demonic apocalpyse.
Point is, given how his death impacted so many of the places he had a hand in, it's possible that something he did as a mortal affected the region and created the Eye.
Golarion material implies to me that he was definetly the "rebel" god going against the status quo in "mortal" affairs. It looks like he was a very intrusive god, at least for the first several thousand years, so I tend to lean towards their being a "physical" aspect to the Eye's cause - not just a metaphysical one.
As some have speculated, it could be a trapped artifact or being; some relic leftover from his Azlanti days; or some place he created/found that was changed by his death. That, to me, seems more in line with the idea of Aroden being a "pro-active" deity with lots of things going on or messes to keep tabs of.
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Clue number ?:
Page 55 in Giants Revisited speaks of Storm Giants on pilgrimages to the region of the Eye and actually riding the waves of the storm and diving into the depths of it and then returning to a pleasure palace "for feasting and luxurious entertainments". They're obviously not harmed by venturing into the storm...
Edit: I think there is a profound absence of the influence of Evil with respect to the Eye of Abendedgo, and I wonder if it exists as a metaphysical counter to the presence of the Worldwound, waiting for something significant to occur before manifesting any changes or whatever.
Just got to the Factions section in the Inner Sea Campaign Setting book (finally), specifically the part about the Harbingers of Lost Omens. Could the entire post-death of Aroden timeline (ie, the current one we are all playing int) be a parallel timeline that was split off when someone killed Aroden? Maybe a time traveller was somehow responsible for his death, and thus fractured Golarion into an alternate history. The Eye of Abendego could be a portal back to the "real" Golarion. Alternatively, it could be the direct result of the paradox thus created.
For a long time, Aroden had been aware that there was a gap. Aroden had a strong connection to prophesy, but there was a point beyond which he could not see; this deeply troubled him. He could, however, tell that his journey for truth would lead him to an ancient hexagonal city.
Inside that city, he found a pair of black arches, and upon those arches were beautifuful dots in intricate patterns -- and one small space lay fully blank, a void among the pattern. He stepped between the pillars, and he slept; he remembered nothing upon waking, but after a number of attempts he was able to leverage his divine power and remember the message that had been taken from him.
Far and away, a great entity was unmaking the universe -- a force that grew as it consumed, less like living death and more like a living end to all things. Born a nightmare, since become a god, since become a force of nature. As light can only reflect off of matter, so too could Aroden's prophesy reflect off of there being a future; his vision stretched to the end of time and no further.
Aroden, weakened, did the only thing he could do. Too weak to face the force of nature alone, and believing he could not draw together the other quibbling gods from their favorite world and temporal bickering to head off an apocalypse that lay millennia in the future, he turned to the only force powerful and mysterious enough to serve as the wild card that could win a conflict.
Hoping that it was possible to become something greater than a god, Aroden returned and took the second test of the Starstone. As if to confirm the possibility that such a thing were possible, the Starstone supplied him with a greater task than had been asked of any creature before.
Above that lonely sea, he failed, and the hopes of Golarion may have died with him.
[That's my story and I'm sticking to it.]
It's basically a Nightshade / Black hole deity.
CEO
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For the record, I went and asked James if he REALLY has an answer for what happened to Aroden or whether he was just screwing with the rest of us. He went to his computer and opened a top secret file called "Unanswered Secrets" or something like that. In that, he has the answers to a number of mysteries that we don't plan to explain, but that he needs to know the answer to nonetheless. And he showed me the answer to Aroden's death. So it DOES exist. :)
Sometimes it is good to own the company...
-Lisa