Say that someone (like a rogue) slinked up behind an unsuspecting enemy (such as a patrol of guards) and wanted to put a dagger to one of their throats as a hostage?
The rogue calls for the remaining guards to, "Hold it; or your counterpart will have another hole to breathe through!", thus threatening that if they move towards them, he will slit his captive's throat.
I would imagine that it would play out as a grapple check first, with the unfortunate target taking some kind of penalty to his opposed grapple check. And secondly, the rogue would have to ready an action for if any of the guards move (trigger), he coup-d-grace's the guard his has captive (recourse). However, you cannot grapple and ready an action in the same turn because both are standard actions. If he simply grapples and threatens in his first turn... he must endure not only an attempt of the captured guard to break free, but also the potential attacks of each other guard before he is ever able to deliver on his threat!
So, my question is... how would our rogue accomplish this task?
Can't be coup de grâce; the target isn't helpless just because of a grapple.
RAW there really isn't a satisfactory way to do this AFAIK.
Say that someone (like a rogue) slinked up behind an unsuspecting enemy (such as a patrol of guards) and wanted to put a dagger to one of their throats as a hostage?
how would our rogue accomplish this task?
Start inits, if the guards are unaware they don't act in the surprise round. Rogue uses his surprise round to ready an action to attack the guard. Since the rogue will go before the guard, the guard will be flat-footed.
At no point is the guard helpless, so no coup de grace.
This is an example of something which works in real life, and does not work in PFRPG. There are many such circumstances, and many GM's will fudge the rules to make such maneuvers work, but that is GM fiat, and varies from GM to GM.
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Win initiative.
If he won initiative he could do the grapple check on the surprise round, then do the prepared action on his first real round. In order to truly coup-de-grace, however, they need the target to be helpless, which they most certainly aren't in this situation. However, you can still flat-foot them by pinning them, but to do that in the time-frame you have here would require Greater Grapple so that you could pin as a move action on the first full round.
If you wanted instead to simply call the throat-slit a called shot, you'd unfortunately need Improved Called Shot as that is normally a full-round action (and the feat reduces it to standard). The reason you need it to be a standard action is that you cannot prepare a full-round. Also a disadvantage is that called shots are a variant rule, meaning your DM could say no and you'd be s+$# out of luck. If they did allow it, however, this would be the best route to take as a critical called shot causes the target to be unable to breath, possibly suffocating to death, and grants bleed damage. Even a non-critical called shot will cause them to have a hard time speaking for a while.
Option 1:
Surprise Round: Grapple
Regular Round: Prepare Action + Pin (if you have greater grapple)
Option 2:
Surprise Round: Grapple
Regular Round: Prepare Action (called shot: neck, requires Improved Called Shot) + Pin (If you have greater grapple)
I don't like the idea of sneak up throat slits in the game, as why have HP if you can just be "throat cut" from behind by a sneaky rogue.
Either narrate it, if its important for the rogue to be able to do this, or have the rogue ready an attack before the guards act, and hope he has enough sneak attack damage to drop the guard in one shot. Sneak attack damage dice represent hitting vital areas, such as a throat.
So, my question is... how would our rogue accomplish this task?
Per the rules-as-written, it's a tough situation. Because you can't ready a coup-de-grace directly as it is a full-round action. Also the victim has to helpless not just grappled.
Here's how it needs to be done per the rules. You can aways rule 0 the situation.
Surprise Round:
Rogue grapples unsuspecting enemy. [standard action]
Other enemies get perception checks to notice rogue. If they succeed the jig is up and combat commences as normal.
First Round
Rogue pins unsuspecting enemy. [standard action]
Hope the others don't hear him.
Second Round
Rogue ties up enemy so they are helpless. [standard action]
Hope the others don't see him.
Third Round
Rogue begins coup de grace action [standard action]
Hope he still isn't seen or heard.
Fourth Round
Rogue readies a standard action to complete a full-round action (coup de grace) [standard action]
Calls out "Don't move or you friend gets it!"
Not exactly the classic knife at the throat scenario, is it.
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So, my question is... how would our rogue accomplish this task?Per the rules-as-written, it's a tough situation. Because you can't ready a coup-de-grace directly as it is a full-round action. Also the victim has to helpless not just grappled.
Here's how it needs to be done per the rules. You can aways rule 0 the situation.
Surprise Round:
Rogue grapples unsuspecting enemy. [standard action]
Other enemies get perception checks to notice rogue. If they succeed the jig is up and combat commences as normal.First Round
Rogue pins unsuspecting enemy. [standard action]
Hope the others don't hear him.Second Round
Rogue ties up enemy so they are helpless. [standard action]
Hope the others don't see him.Third Round
Rogue begins coup de grace action [standard action]
Hope he still isn't seen or heard.Fourth Round
Rogue readies a standard action to complete a full-round action (coup de grace) [standard action]
Calls out "Don't move or you friend gets it!"Not exactly the classic knife at the throat scenario, is it.
Called Shot: Neck.
Requires Improved Called Shot* (and thus requires Combat Expertise) so that it can be done as a standard action, and thus prepared.
Surprise Round
Grapple as a standard action
First Round
Prepare action to do a called shot to the neck
Threaten the other guards
You would need to get a critical hit to deal a deadly blow with this (and even then, it's only deadly if their friends can't do a heal check or use magical healing to repair ALL the damage you did, though the DC on the heal check *is* 25), but it's the closest you can get by RAW right now.
EDIT: * The rules for called shot are inconsistent on the action. The main rules text says it is normally a full-round action, while the "Normal" section for Improved Called Shot says it is normally a standard action. I believe the latter is more realistic and fair (and still prevents you from doing a Vital Strike called shot and such), but the former is the RAW.
Yeah, I ended up fudging it on the fly. But I wanted to check and see if I could get a more "official" ruling, so thank you guys!
And I know coup de grace are not allowed unless a victim is helpless, but I fudged that as well (I used the coup de grace mechanics - automatic critical damage, but without sneak attack added in... and then when the guard survived the damage, he made a Fortitude against bleed damage as opposed to death).
Quick. Easy. Dirty. Sometimes that's the best way to go, in-game and out.
;)