It's my opinion that, even in the face of the Void school, that these two specialization schools are the best from an optimization standpoint.
But of these two, which is the better?
Obviously Conjuration has the better spells for daily casting, but is the initiative bonus and school powers of the Foresight subschool good enough to make up for this disadvantage?
|
Seems to me they are both good enough where you can comfortably pick whichever you like without worrying about it. Beyond a certain point you are splitting hairs.
The way I see it the value of "act in the surprise round" is an ability with widely varying usefulness depending on the campaign. I've found it quite handy, but if your GM doesn't do surprise rounds often it's almost worthless. YMMV.
It's more than just acting in a surprise round though, it's a more than substantial bonus to initiative.
Also, foresight can preroll a good number of rolls a day as well as lower enemy saves by 2 with no save.
All 3 powers are great.
Moving as a swift action is pretty crazy too though.
They're both ridiculously awesome.
I had a hard time choosing. I went with teleportation, and loved it, but I did occasionally wish I had the abilities from foresight.
|
|
Foresight is pretty awesome if you do ray attacks or use a bow or a gun. Many wizards will find little use for it though.
I do think diviner has the best set of school powers... it's just paired with a fairly weak set of spells for bonus spells. I just turned 3rd level and there is little in the way of divine spells for 1st and 2nd level... it's just kind of bleh.
Things a wizard rolls for:
Touch attacks
Spell resistance penetration (this can be big)
Saving throws
Skill Checks (including knowledge checks)
Combat maneuver checks for spells like Telekineses
Those are quite important rolls.
Also, you know the roll ahead of time, so you can also decide to do something else if you want.
the more dangerous the campaign, the better the diviner.
Villains can always restrict your escape plans, including any teleportation, but they can never take your initiative.
Also, the surprise round becomes more important the higher your lvl, as you'll get better quickened spells.
At lower levels and for fun I would take teleportation, as it replaces climb skill, and is hell of fun to use in social interactions.
Foresight's school powers are slightly stronger, but conjuration slots are far more valuable and divination is pretty painless to prohibit. So, teleportation wins, in my view.
Divination, both its spells and school powers, vary widely in usefulness based on DM.
I'd have to agree, going first and going automatically in the surprise round is nice, but, conjuration has better spells and swift action movement is boss.
Out of the two i think conjuration wins just because it can use its speciality slots effectively every day. I'd also like to mention how easy it is to boost perception and initiative to high modifiers on a wizard anyway, as well as the lookout feat letting you act in the surprise round if an ally can act. Lookout does give a huge benefit to a diviner and his party though.
Overall i'd lean towards conjurer but as the game gets to really high levels and more rocket taggy diviner might win just because of the initiative bonus.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I took the best of both worlds.
I went Foresight for my specialty but the took spell focus conjuration and play him like a conjuration wizard. The only downside of this is that you have to spend a spell slot of each level on a divination spell. However, some of the divination can be useful in the right situation so it's not a horrible thing.
|
For a wizard, going first often means the difference between survival or death.
In that case, Diviner wins out.
That being said, Conjurers using teleport magic creatively can easily trivialize even the most difficult encounters.
Having played & GMd for each, its a coin flip, imo.
Illusionist has some pretty gosh-darn neat tricks, as well.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
I've got a PFS character headed toward Eldritch Knight (currently Fighter1/Wizard2) using the Foresight subschool. I supplemented the Forewarned ability with really high initiative (+10 total), so I can pretty much always get a buff up right away (unless there's a better option at the time, of course).
I carry a wand of shield in a spring-loaded wrist sheath so I have something to do if I'm not aware of my ambushers yet. It's working out pretty well so far.
As everyone says, both are quite nice. I do think it depends on your game. I have a level 12 Diviner in a home game, and it has been very fun. The ability to often go first means my group enjoys Haste most of the time right from the start.
The Diviner's Fortune power is very good. When I don't need to throw around a spell, I stand in the back and give the Archer Ranger a +6 to hit. He then uses Deadly Aim. The combo is quite powerful and I use it often when the enemies are weaker or when I want to conserve spells.
As for the divination spells, they aren't that useful in combat. But I have used Tongues when we were ambushed and surrounded by intelligent monsters and then talked our way out of the situation. Detect Thoughts has often helped interrogate prisoners. Letting someone else ask the questions and then leaning over to announce when the prisoner is lying really speeds things up.
Telepathic bond makes our stealth attacks work perfectly. Scrying is always useful. Detect Secret Doors isn't all that wonderful, but Detect Undead has a few uses. All in all, I have had fun with it. That's the most important thing.
I dislike that the Shift teleportation power ends your turn. So to say it's movement as a Swift is...mehhhhh not so accurate. Sure, it's movement as a swift action, but only as the last action on your turn unless you want to lose your other actions.