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Only a 4- or 5-star GM or VC will have access to the specific wording, but as a general rule you're not expected to succeed in every faction mission and often at least someone in the party has to make moderately hard skill checks to succeed.
Unless the mission gives some reason for secrecy or there are magical glyphs carved into the floor and such, I would have thought that taking the whole cage back should fulfil the requirement. That's a GM call though.
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I very much dislike how some GM's/players take such a binary approach to success and failure when it comes to faction missions. Why are inventive ways around combat encounters/traps/obstacles encouraged and keep the story flowing, while faction missions are often simple 'Yes/No' situations?
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I very much dislike how some GM's/players take such a binary approach to success and failure when it comes to faction missions. Why are inventive ways around combat encounters/traps/obstacles encouraged and keep the story flowing, while faction missions are often simple 'Yes/No' situations?
Because that is the disparity on how faction missions and encounters are written.
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There is supposed to be a "Reward Creative Solutions" clause. I've been fortunate in my GMs and the experience with them on Faction Missions - but I see situations like the one posted and wonder about if there is a reward for creativity implemented by some of the GMs.
My experience has been that faction missions are not binary if the GM is willing to have an open mind and reward creativity. I have not had a negative situation yet as all the GM's I've had go the extra mile.
I do my best to make sure that players have every chance to get the faction mission for their character.
But frankly, the creative solutions, I believe, is a clause in there to not take away treasure from the characters should they find a creative way to avoid a combat encounter. I don't believe the creative solutions clause has anything to do with faction missions.
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**But frankly, the creative solutions, I believe, is a clause in there to not take away treasure from the characters should they find a creative way to avoid a combat encounter. I don't believe the creative solutions clause has anything to do with faction missions.**
Creativity has nothing to do with faction missions? Really? Not like this is a roleplaying game or anything where creativity is the main driving factor, right? Sorry, but I'm a bit miffed at this line of logic from one of the higher ups. One of the biggest things about table top is that players find ways to work around whatever is thrown at them, with the skills and resources they have at hand. To say otherwise is to defeat the whole reason of playing. There is a similar thread here on the board from a long while back addressing a similar issue. Some folks on there applied some very creative methods to work around this whole crap of "Sorry, yer effed cuz you don't have a rank in EVERY skill". Some of these solutions required the purchase of MW tools, access to a library, hirelings, and (most importantly) help from your fellow PCs.
Everything in PFS should be subject to creative solutions. Otherwise we would not need DM's, right? We could convert the whole system into a choose your own adventure book or a video game. "Ok, you see the hellhounds. If you try to sketch them, please turn to page 37 for your failure text."
But the key is, you aren't supposed to get EVERY PP, so you don't NEED a skill rank in every skill. Just accept there will be some missions you aren't equipped for.
Now that isn't to say, that if someone comes up with a way to succeed that effectively supplies the same result as a sleight of hand or disable device, that I won't look at it.
But finding completely new ways to do a faction mission that doesn't really have anything to do with the skill checks the faction mission is asking for, is not how its supposed to work. Creative or not.
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Many of the faction missions feel like a lottery to me. Pick a random skill, if you have the skill, roll a die and you have a chance of making it. That is about as interesting as a day job roll. I'm looking forward to some changes.
It certainly isn't random. Just have a look at the different factions.
Taldor - the Empire in Decline where nobility still thinks they are 'important'. If you follow Taldor, then it makes a lot of sense to know at least a little bit about how the country you follow works.
Knowledge Nobility as skill might be esoteric - as a Taldan it is a part of life to know at least some basics.
Quadira are traders. So don't be suprised if one day you are send to a new place to scout out new trade routes and to need appraisal to check up items directly at source.
I could go on.
Yes - there are the 'strange' missions and skills. But a lot are actually tailored towards the factions and certain skills tend to be more important for some factions while esoteric or never used in other ones.
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I have to admit that the idea of bringing an entire cage back to HQ and having your boss say "thanks but no thanks, we really wanted a sketch instead" sounds a bit silly to me.
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I have to admit that the idea of bringing an entire cage back to HQ and having your boss say "thanks but no thanks, we really wanted a sketch instead" sounds a bit silly to me.
But, bringing the entire cage back may not be feasible either.
Additionally, I've seen faction missions (specifically Qadiran) where you are supposed to show your mettle by successfully negotiating something, rather than just stealing it. You wanna try to bluff your faction head to convince them you negotiated it?
Just because something "can" be done, doesn't mean it is a good idea, or that it should get your pp.
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I have to admit that the idea of bringing an entire cage back to HQ and having your boss say "thanks but no thanks, we really wanted a sketch instead" sounds a bit silly to me.My DM (Who is both a four-star and a Venture Captain) let me take the cages home instead of drawing sketches. Of course, I had to use a few charges of my ant-haul wand and pay for shipping on a boat, but it still got done.
My opinion on faction missions, and I understand that not everyone agrees with me, but here you go:
It is using a Fame/Prestige mechanic that measures how much notoriety you earn as you engage in your chosen profession as a member of the Pathfinder Society. As such, is it really that prestigious to do half of a mission, dump a pile of books, papers or a cage in front of your faction head and say, “sorry, couldn’t complete your task, but here’s the whole lot of it, good luck! Hope you find what you need!”
I’m of an opinion, that the faction heads aren’t going to look too kindly at you if you make their job harder, and thus won’t speak your name glowingly to other members of the faction or other factions or the Society itself, or the public. If they tell you to find some finance reports, and you return with 27 ledgers that they then have to decipher on their own, that isn’t worth them making you look good to everyone else. You didn’t do what they asked, and you made more work for them.
There should be allowances for creative solutions, but the creative solutions should be geared toward actually doing what the faction head asked, not making more work for them.
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It is using a Fame/Prestige mechanic that measures how much notoriety you earn as you engage in your chosen profession as a member of the Pathfinder Society. As such, is it really that prestigious to do half of a mission, dump a pile of books, papers or a cage in front of your faction head and say, “sorry, couldn’t complete your task, but here’s the whole lot of it, good luck! Hope you find what you need!”
Actually, Andrew, for this specific mission, taking the cage itself back is exceeding the requirements, since the sketch was for her to have just such a cage made.
Equally, for something like this, there would be plenty of other ways to come up with usable sketches, not just Knowledge (Engineering).
How about Profession (Draftsman) or Profession (Artist)? "She needs a good drawing of the cage, doesn't say anywhere that I need to understand how they work."
Heck, I could see ways to fulfill this task with Profession Slaver, or Profession Trapper/Trapsmith. How about Craft (Cage-maker)?
As I believe that Mark mentioned somewhere, the faction missions just give the most obvious or simplest way to perform the task, it is not expected to be an exhaustive list of how to complete the task. No way it could be, and still stay within word count & page count.