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Hi everyone,
Not sure if this forum prefers thread necromancy or new threads, so I've erred on the side of the latter.
I was just wondering if there is anyone currently involved in regular (monthly, say) PFS play in Toronto. I'm completely inexperienced in PFS play myself (though I have been playing the game for about a year now) so I'm not 100% certain that I want to take on the responsibility of organizing an event myself. (Though once I've participated once or twice I could be convinced to take the lead in setting one up) There are a few threads around that suggest there are quite a few Pathfinders in Toronto, and more than a few who have expressed interest in PFS in the past.
FWIW, I live in the old City of York, but the TTC makes most FLGSs easy to travel to. (Well, maybe not easy, but certainly accessible.)
~Feegs
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Hi Feegle.
I'm the Venture-Captain for Toronto. Drop me an email on the address on my profile, and I can send you info about some of the groups going on, and see if I can set you up with one of them.
Off the top, I can tell you that they are planning a PFS session at Hairy Tarantula North on June 27th.
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Feegle - No, I have not yet received your email.
Van - I am looking at trying to get something going for Fan Expo, but first I'm trying to get assurances that the setup is a little better this year. Last year, I was locked out of the con when I went out for lunch. And the admission lines would have prevented any games going on schedule.
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Still no luck, Feegle. Maybe check the spelling on Neil ;)
In any case, I'm hoping the Monday nights at Hairy T becomes a fairly regular thing.
Beyond that, I know that some people have had luck with the Meetup Group called Toronto Area Gamers (http://www.torontoareagamers.com/)
Oshawa has a weekly Wednesday night game at Worlds Collide.
I am in discussion with the Fan Expo folks to see what I can do there, and will definitely run some sessions for HammerCon in the fall.
Beyond that, most of the area games right now are home games.
Just to let you know, if your email does eventually get thru, I will be unavailable for the remainder of the week due to Origins.
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Van - I am looking at trying to get something going for Fan Expo, but first I'm trying to get assurances that the setup is a little better this year. Last year, I was locked out of the con when I went out for lunch. And the admission lines would have prevented any games going on schedule.
Neil, I've been there the last 3 years and I doubt this is going to change. Fanexpo keeps getting larger and larger... I was one of the people waiting in line 2.5 hours last year, and it was because of the fire code they weren't letting more people in. Fire code isn't going to change.
However, maybe we could just bring our lunches? At 6pm, it should be possible to get dinner and come back?
We might lose players because of the lines, then again it will probably be easy to gain tonnes of players (you would know better). For the amount of GMs we have in Toronto (not many), it shouldn't be hard to fill tables.
As for the email, maybe your spam filter is filtering him. I've gotten filtered a few times lately, by Spamcop, and I'm not sure why...
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Hi Feegle.
I'm the Venture-Captain for Toronto. Drop me an email on the address on my profile, and I can send you info about some of the groups going on, and see if I can set you up with one of them.
Off the top, I can tell you that they are planning a PFS session at Hairy Tarantula North on June 27th.
Does anyone know what time the game starts on June 27th - and which module will be run?
Thanks!
Unfortunately, I can't make it on the 27th, so it'll be postponed (unless someone else steps up to GM). The module was going to be "Silent Tide".
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Unfortunately, I can't make it on the 27th, so it'll be postponed (unless someone else steps up to GM). The module was going to be "Silent Tide".
I'd step up, but Mondays (and Wednesdays) are soccer nights for my daughter till end of August. With advance planning though, I could likely get a night off. By the time we get to September it shouldn't be a problem.
Even though I was unlikely to make it, I was planning to share the info with a few other friends interested in PFS. I'll hold until the next date is settled.
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Van - I am looking at trying to get something going for Fan Expo, but first I'm trying to get assurances that the setup is a little better this year. Last year, I was locked out of the con when I went out for lunch. And the admission lines would have prevented any games going on schedule.Neil, I've been there the last 3 years and I doubt this is going to change. Fanexpo keeps getting larger and larger... I was one of the people waiting in line 2.5 hours last year, and it was because of the fire code they weren't letting more people in. Fire code isn't going to change.
The fire code isn’t the issue; the amount of space rented by FanExpo is. If they rented more space, they could accommodate more people and the fire code would not be engaged. Instead, the organizers of FanExpo are greedy and are all about maximizing their profits without paying attention to the backlash of paying fans who, for the privilege of their hefty admission fee, are then left in line for hours on end.
If FanExpo isn’t inclined to change its policies (and to be clear, there is absolutely ZERO evidence that they will) – I won’t attend for any reason. You don’t get to treat your attendees with that sort of contempt without getting called on your b@+#~#%*.
I’m happy to attend and run PFS for Neil at his request almost anywhere in the GTA. But I won’t do it at FanExpo. I do this for fun. I have way better things to do with my time than put up with that crap.
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SW,
I agree with you 100%, however if we want to have Pathfinder support at Fan Expo, that's what we have to work with. I don't think the setup will change, if anything it could be worse (as even more fans come to Fan Expo).
It sucks slightly for the GMs, but then again they'll be lots of new players to expose to Pathfinder, so it's an opportunity as well.
I'll DM one day of slots for you Neil, if you organize Fan Expo.
I haven't rescheduled the game yet, but I was thinking about the evening of July 11 at the Hairy Tarantula North (Yonge & Steeles).
I haven't rescheduled the game yet, but I was thinking about the evening of July 11 at the Hairy Tarantula North (Yonge & Steeles).Alas - I've tickets for U2 that night.
Hey, you already said Monday is no good -- that's just stealth bragging!
;-)
(Okay, I'm a little jealous.)
Like I said, I haven't rescheduled anything yet, so I'm open to suggestions. :-)
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I run a home game of PFOS every month in Mississauga, mostly on Sunday afternoons from 12-5pm.
Most weeks I'm at capacity but one of the players is too busy, so I might be looking for someone to take his spot. If interested let me know.
One sunday a month doesn't sound too bad at all.. if you're looking for one more player, I'd love to try it out.
my email addy, if you want to get in touch with me, is
THANKS!
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I haven't rescheduled the game yet, but I was thinking about the evening of July 11 at the Hairy Tarantula North (Yonge & Steeles).Alas - I've tickets for U2 that night.Hey, you already said Monday is no good -- that's just stealth bragging!
;-)
(Okay, I'm a little jealous.)
Yeah - it's hard to feel sorry for me on this count.
With soccer, I'm dicey for Mondays till Sept comes around. Even so, I'm really invested in PFS gaining more traction in Toronto. I'm happy to spread the word about games once their scheduled, even if I can't make it.
I'm also thinking of hosting a home PFS game to christen the spankin' new gaming room that showed up after our basement reno.
How are you folks feeling about a regular Tuesday night PFS game at 401 Games? 6:00-10:00 p.m. would be the plan.
I'd probably be interested; I work dowtown so it's easy enough for me to get there. But judging from my previous experience trying to organize a game at Hairy Tarantula, 6:00 is too early for some folks.
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I live and work up north, but Tuesday nights are awesome for me, so I'd definitely be interested in coming out, although 6 may be hectic for me to try and get down to 401.How are you folks feeling about a regular Tuesday night PFS game at 401 Games? 6:00-10:00 p.m. would be the plan.
Look, I know 6:00 is too early for most people. I'd prefer it was 7:00 p.m., personally, but the store closes at 10:00 p.m.. If it closed at 11:00 p.m.? Different story and I'm totally with you.
It may be that if we get a couple of tables going regularly, the store gets an uptick in Pathfinder sales, and maybe we pay $1 as an antry fee, that we could then persuade the store owners to extend the store hours to 11:00 p.m. to permit a later start time. But those are the kinds of accommpdations that are made for established groups -- not the sorts of accommodations made for new groups of uncertain value and unknown popularity.
While I expect to habitually start actual play for REAL at 6:30 p.m., that also means that we need to snap-to-it to get through the adventure in about 3:20 mins so we can get packed up and be out a few mins before 10:00. This is mostly doable in the vast majority of PFS scenarios, but some of them can drag on.
The length of scenarios in terms of how they fit within the available time for in-store organized play on weeknights was the primary concern that lead to the 2 hour format in 4E's "D&D Encounters" series. Not everything WotC does is a bad idea folks -- and the 2 hour time slot for D&D Encounters attempted to address this concern.
Now, don't get me wrong. I am not saying that a 2 hour scenario is a better scenario that a 4 hour one. I am not saying that D&D Encounters adventures are better than Pathfinder Society Scenarios, either. Ok?
I AM saying that it might be helpful if Hyrum Savage and Mark Moreland should give some thought to offering some sort of 2 hour PFS slot of some kind, instead of a 4 hour slot, to deal with the reality of a very narrow aperture of time for in-store play in many locations.
Most times, with a focussed group you can manage to do most PFS scenarios in a shade under three hours. Usually that's fine, which is why I hope to run PFS on Tuesday nights at 401 Games in the time slot provided without too much trouble.
But, the time it takes to play is a real factor in all of this.
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excuse my ignorance, (I'm a PFS nub) but.. is there no way we can split the module into two sessions?
Or is that against the rules?
Absolutely we can do that -- and we will do so if it proves to be necessary.
The problems this presents, however, is that it then creates a situation where players attend one session and do not attend the next week's session. While we can all work around this, it does present a few issues that would not crop up otherwise.
In addition, many of the scenarios are not designed to be run this way and do not have a natural "mid-way" breakpoint. Still, one can always eyeball it though, and it will mostly work out. If it's half way through or two-thirds the way through -- does it really matter? Probably not.
So yes, splitting a scenario over two weeks is doable. That said, I prefer to have a session where players experience a sense of accomplishment and closure during one discrete session of organized play. That's certainly the ideal I would prefer to shoot for.
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I may be interested in joining in at 401 once or twice this summer. Are you planning on starting this week? (I can't make it tomorrow, so the answer here is largely irrelevant.) Will you do it weekly? I think I'm clear for next Tuesday, and barring anything unexpected, would be interested in joining in then.
FWIW, 6 is fine for me. But then again, I'm a teacher, so even with summer school, I've got nothing but free time. Damn lazy teachers, amirite?
I may also have one or two other players who might be interested - but most of us are relatively new to PF, and none of us have ever played PFS before. Not that I expect that's a problem - but just be aware of it.
Out of curiosity, generally how do PFS players react to a non-optimized character in their party? My friends and I dislike minmaxing - though not to the point where we judge others who do, we just generally aim for character and story instead of optimal combat builds.
Also, being that we're all PFS nubs, how does character creation work? I don't need the "Look at the Player's Guide" answer - I just need to know that if I show up the night of PFS with a new character, is that it? Is there some kind of vetting/proofreading process that I should be a little early? Should I register the character online ahead of time?
Sorry for all the questions.
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Hey Feegle. I'm afraid none of your questions have firm answers.
You will get a variety of reactions regardless of what type of build you show up with, so don't worry about it (especially seeing PFS is going to be new at the store).
The amount of character vetting varies by GM, tho it is always good to be prepared for them to look at your character. Be sure to be able to provide copies of any non-core material you may have used.
If you register ahead of time, it simplifies matters. Just bring your character ID#. However, a GM/co-ordinator should have ID cards available for new players.
I hope to see you there some night soon :)
Oh, and Steel_Wind, they have started offering 2-hours-or-less PFS offerings: quests. The first one appeared in a recent Kobold Quarterly (Ambush in Absalom), and I expect we will see more in the new season. However, they do not provide characters with xp or PA.
Typically, the Season 0 scenarios run a little shorter, while more recent offerings run longer. Time also increases with level, generally.
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The amount of character vetting varies by GM, tho it is always good to be prepared for them to look at your character. Be sure to be able to provide copies of any non-core material you may have used.
What exactly constitutes "non-core" material? Is it a fair assumption that if something is in the PRD, that's considered core? And if so, even if it lacks the details of that feature? (For example, do I REALLY need to lug my APG down there just because I've built a sorceror with an alternate bloodline?)
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I may be interested in joining in at 401 once or twice this summer. Are you planning on starting this week? (I can't make it tomorrow, so the answer here is largely irrelevant.) Will you do it weekly? I think I'm clear for next Tuesday, and barring anything unexpected, would be interested in joining in then.
FWIW, 6 is fine for me. But then again, I'm a teacher, so even with summer school, I've got nothing but free time. Damn lazy teachers, amirite?
I may also have one or two other players who might be interested - but most of us are relatively new to PF, and none of us have ever played PFS before. Not that I expect that's a problem - but just be aware of it.
Out of curiosity, generally how do PFS players react to a non-optimized character in their party? My friends and I dislike minmaxing - though not to the point where we judge others who do, we just generally aim for character and story instead of optimal combat builds.
Also, being that we're all PFS nubs, how does character creation work? I don't need the "Look at the Player's Guide" answer - I just need to know that if I show up the night of PFS with a new character, is that it? Is there some kind of vetting/proofreading process that I should be a little early? Should I register the character online ahead of time?
Sorry for all the questions.
Don't be sorry. Questions are good and this is the proper place for them, too.
I am not sure precisely when I will be starting at 401, but as of right now, I plan to start either July 12 or 19th. I’ll post the date here, on the D20 Radio forums, on ENWorld and I’ll even plug it on Chronicles: Pathfinder Podcast, too. I want this to succeed; nothing less than a runaway success is acceptable to me. :)
My plan is to run a weekly game on every Tuesday night. The more tables we can have participating each week? The better.
As for character creation and non-optimized characters – if you have ever played with a Pathfinder Pre-gen character in PFS, you would realize that there are very few choices you could make for character generation on your own that would be worse in terms of optimization than Paizo’s own pre-gens! Yes – they really are that bad. So yes, I am CERTAIN people can live with that.
Yes, there is a PFS guide available as a FREE DOWNLOAD here on the Paizo website and, yes, you really should read it. But the short strokes for character creation is to generate your character using a 20 point buy. There are also a few restrictions for character generation that are noted in the PFS Guide. The most important ones you need to be aware of relate to item creation feats. These are not allowed in PFS play, so they are a complete waste to take for your character. Don’t do it. Don't create an evil character please. Good or neutral is fine.
If you are using a feat, spell, trait or other character class ability from a book other than the Core Rulebook, you should bring the book with you to the play session. If you find an amazing feat in Gnomes of Golarion, say, it’s okay that you use it in PFS play – but you must bring a physical copy of the book with you to the play session in order for it to be "PFS legal". There are some situations where PFS rules override the RAW in Pathfinder, but they tend to be very, very unique situations. Generally speaking, RAW is the way PFS plays.
Re: Experience: PFS scenarios are a great way to learn the Pathfinder system and I’ve run PFS for total noobs without any problems whatsoever. No experience is required. At all. I promise.
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The "Core Assumption" for Society play is the Core Rulebook, the Bestiary, and Seekers of Secrets.
For anything else (including APG), the GM may ask to see a copy of what you are using. That copy can be physical or electronic, and includes a printout of the pdf. In the case of your hypothetical sorceror bloodline, just the appropriate pages should suffice.
However, you may wish to talk to the GM ahead of time... if they're bringing the APG themselves, they may not need you to bring one.
Where I have recently heard about this kind of thing becoming a problem is when people build characters using a program. They may throw in a feat or spell with no idea where it came from, and when the GM needs details, they are unable to provide them.
EDIT: Ninjaed by Steel_Wind, and as he is the co-ordinator for this game, he is the definitive authority :)
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I am not sure precisely when I will be starting at 401, but as of right now, I plan to start either July 12 or 19th. I’ll post the date here, on the D20 Radio forums, on ENWorld and I’ll even plug it on Chronicles: Pathfinder Podcast, too. I want this to succeed; nothing less than a runaway success is acceptable to me. :)
Might I also suggest registering the event on the PFS page here? I started this whole thread prompted by the fact that the only event listed near Toronto in the "Find a Game" off the society page was the one that is run in Oshawa. There may be others like me who are looking for a game but less prone to posting. :)
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Where I have recently heard about this kind of thing becoming a problem is when people build characters using a program. They may throw in a feat or spell with no idea where it came from, and when the GM needs details, they are unable to provide them.
I appear to have misunderstood the point of providing these rules. For some reason, I had it in my head that I couldn't use the rules if I hadn't purchased the supplement. This is more about ensuring that a GM who doesn't own all the supplements, or who doesn't have all of them handy, has access to the rule itself in case of dispute, correct?
So in theory, if I own the APG and two of my friends don't, but use it in character creation, as long as I bring my copy to the table, everything's kosher?
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Oh, and Steel_Wind, they have started offering 2-hours-or-less PFS offerings: quests. The first one appeared in a recent Kobold Quarterly (Ambush in Absalom), and I expect we will see more in the new season. However, they do not provide characters with xp or PA.
Quite true; I had forgotten about those.
Might be that a larger source of those quests, and some way to integrate the quests into PFS XP /PA would be useful.
I guess such concerns can await a larger base of available Quests before much grey matter need be wasted thinking about whether to create some special XP/PA rules for them, and if so, how.
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Where I have recently heard about this kind of thing becoming a problem is when people build characters using a program. They may throw in a feat or spell with no idea where it came from, and when the GM needs details, they are unable to provide them.I appear to have misunderstood the point of providing these rules. For some reason, I had it in my head that I couldn't use the rules if I hadn't purchased the supplement. This is more about ensuring that a GM who doesn't own all the supplements, or who doesn't have all of them handy, has access to the rule itself in case of dispute, correct?
So in theory, if I own the APG and two of my friends don't, but use it in character creation, as long as I bring my copy to the table, everything's kosher?
Honestly, it's a bit of both. Let's face it, Pathfinder Society is a marketing program for Paizo, and they want folks to buy their books. Ensuring that someone has purchased a book to get a hot feat may sell another book.
But the main concern is making sure the GM has access to the rules without having to bring everything. If a family, or a group of friends, shows up with one copy of a book that they have all used, you are fine.|
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Might I also suggest registering the event on the PFS page here? I started this whole thread prompted by the fact that the only event listed near Toronto in the "Find a Game" off the society page was the one that is run in Oshawa. There may be others like me who are looking for a game but less prone to posting. :)
When the date is set, I shall certainly do so.
The length of scenarios in terms of how they fit within the available time for in-store organized play on weeknights was the primary concern that lead to the 2 hour format in 4E's "D&D Encounters" series. Not everything WotC does is a bad idea folks -- and the 2 hour time slot for D&D Encounters attempted to address this concern.Now, don't get me wrong. I am not saying that a 2 hour scenario is a better scenario that a 4 hour one. I am not saying that D&D Encounters adventures are better than Pathfinder Society Scenarios, either. Ok?
I AM saying that it might be helpful if Hyrum Savage and Mark Moreland should give some thought to offering some sort of 2 hour PFS slot of some kind, instead of a 4 hour...
Agreed. As I said, when I tried organising a game at HT North, we didn't get enough players early enough. By the time there was a quorum of interested players, it was after 7 and so we played D&D Encounters instead. :-)
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Agreed. As I said, when I tried organising a game at HT North, we didn't get enough players early enough. By the time there was a quorum of interested players, it was after 7 and so we played D&D Encounters instead. :-)
The length of scenarios in terms of how they fit within the available time for in-store organized play on weeknights was the primary concern that lead to the 2 hour format in 4E's "D&D Encounters" series. Not everything WotC does is a bad idea folks -- and the 2 hour time slot for D&D Encounters attempted to address this concern.Now, don't get me wrong. I am not saying that a 2 hour scenario is a better scenario that a 4 hour one. I am not saying that D&D Encounters adventures are better than Pathfinder Society Scenarios, either. Ok?
I AM saying that it might be helpful if Hyrum Savage and Mark Moreland should give some thought to offering some sort of 2 hour PFS slot of some kind, instead of a 4 hour...
HT North would be ideal for me. Were you even close to having enough people?
HT North would be ideal for me. Were you even close to having enough people?
There were two willing people (including Jamie the manager); one more would have made it possible with the GM playing a pregen. A clump of people came later around 7:15ish.
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FWIW, Steel_Wind, a few people from my Kingmaker campaign group have expressed more than a passing interest in the occasional PFS game. Depending on when you get started and their schedules, I may personally be able to bring as many as three other players to a session. Based on the other interest in this thread, you may be able to get more than that for a 6pm start, even if that timing is not ideal for everyone.
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FWIW, Steel_Wind, a few people from my Kingmaker campaign group have expressed more than a passing interest in the occasional PFS game. Depending on when you get started and their schedules, I may personally be able to bring as many as three other players to a session. Based on the other interest in this thread, you may be able to get more than that for a 6pm start, even if that timing is not ideal for everyone.
No problem. If we have enough players for two tables, even better.
Right now, it's looking like July 26 for the inaugural session. I have a few i's to do and t's to cross -- but that's the current plan. When it firms up, I'll confirm here.
I am inclined to run The Devil We Know series to start the whole thing off. That PFS series is in 4 parts, which provides a nice bit of campaign continuity for all players at the beginning of PFS and assists in persuading people to keep coming back every week. :) While each part in the Devil We Know series could be run as a stand-alone, it's best for the same GM to run them in succession, one after the other. With the same GM running, you can make sure the continuity is consistent through each segment and the end-result is much more of a campaign feel -- which is nice to start off with, imo.
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I am inclined to run The Devil We Know series to start the whole thing off. That PFS series is in 4 parts, which provides a nice bit of campaign continuity for all players at the beginning of PFS and assists in persuading people to keep coming back every week. :) While each part in the Devil We Know series could be run as a stand-alone, it's best for the same GM to run them in succession, one after the other. With the same GM running, you can make sure the continuity is consistent through each segment and the end-result is much more of a campaign feel -- which is nice to start off with, imo.
It's a fair point. Personally, one of the things that interests me most about PFS is having independent modules every week so that I don't HAVE to come to every session. But I totally understand the importance of ensuring that there are a large number of repeat players early in the setting to build a player base, buzz at the store, and the faith of the store owners that this is something worth building.
Anyway, while I can absolutely play the first couple of weeks, I'm not sure about the rest - weddings and honeymoons play havoc with the gaming schedule. ;)
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But I totally understand the importance of ensuring that there are a large number of repeat players early in the setting to build a player base, buzz at the store, and the faith of the store owners that this is something worth building.
That is exactly the point, at the outset.
Okay. Confirmed with 401 Games management.
Pathfinder Society at 401 Games starting Tuesday July 26, 2011
Every Tuesday night at 401 Games (upstairs)
401 Yonge Street
Toronto, ON M5B 1S9 Directions
(416) 599-6446
The poster will be up on the wall later in the week and should be up on 401's calendar sometime next week.