| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Stunned is effectively a more serious version of dazed.
Are creatures who are immune to stun (e. g. undead) also immune to daze?
Nope. Each condition is its own thing.
That makes dazing spell even more powerful. I have yet to find a single creature that is immune to daze (which was probably originally counterbalanced by daze having a duration of just one round, a convention that dazing spell breaks).
That is why daze is so awesome. It does not do as much as stun, but I don't think anything is immune to it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I guess its a reasonable houserule that immune to stun incorporates immune to daze. That makes undead, constructs and elementals immune to it and the optimized dazing spell less of a no-brainer.
I don't seem them as higher or lower versions of the same condition, unlike the fear conditions.
As for dazing spell it takes up 3 higher slots which really lowers the save DC, and partial effects don't make it work. The save has to be failed. Unless the player is trying to make the save DC's really high it won't work that much. If he is trying to make them really high then the monsters are in trouble anyway.
Daze and Daze Monster are both Enchantment(compulsion)[mind-affecting], and many things are immune to that. I don't see any language in Dazing Spell that specifies that it works exactly like Daze or Daze Monster, so by RAW those with immunity to Enchantment(compulsion)[mind-affecting] don't seem to be immune to Dazing Spell effects, but I would not be surprised if the Rules as Intended would allow such creatures to be immune to Dazing Spell.
Daze and Daze Monster are both Enchantment(compulsion)[mind-affecting], and many things are immune to that. I don't see any language in Dazing Spell that specifies that it works exactly like Daze or Daze Monster, so by RAW those with immunity to Enchantment(compulsion)[mind-affecting] don't seem to be immune to Dazing Spell effects, but I would not be surprised if the Rules as Intended would allow such creatures to be immune to Dazing Spell.
Thanks, I like that even better as a houserule.
@wraithstrike:
I have a lvl 11 Sor in my game that dishes out dazing (electric) fireballs with DC 25. 3/day they are persistant (via rod). Thats a "win the encounter" card 3/day. Its too good by RAW, IMO.
I used a similar build for a PvP contest. It is brutal if a player focuses on it, but so are most SoD casters. I would allow the player to redo his character if I changed the rules after the fact though.
Not all daze effects are mind affecting.
Daze and Stun are absolutely not the same thing.
Stun is more potent, Daze is less commonly countered by immunity.
If you have a problem with the Dazing Spell feat, nerf that, don't nerf daze itself for anyone else that might use it through some other means.
If you have a problem with the Dazing Spell feat, nerf that, don't nerf daze itself for anyone else that might use it through some other means.
Since no player ever used an ability or spell to daze a creature before this is not really a probloem. Really what means (besides the daze spells which no one uses) are there?
Daze and Stun are absolutely not the same thing.
Yes, by RAW you are right. But both rules and flavour allow for an interpretation of daze as a "weaker stun".
Well, the Dazing Assault feat, for one.
Well, the Dazing Assault feat, for one.
Ok. Anything else?
There are not a lot of ways to daze creatures because nothing is immune to it, and if they were related the rules would say so. Stunning is more common because more things are immune to it.
Having similar penalties does not mean two things are related.
The daze spell is used, and it is good spell to take actions away. Daze monster is not used that much, but that is because it is not good enough for its level.
Well, the Dazing Assault feat, for one.Ok. Anything else?
The metamagic feat dazing spell. Applied to a damage over time spell like acid arrow, it forces saves over multiple rounds, any fail applying a multi-round daze, with saves refreshing the daze still ongoing, making a stun-lock equivelent effect. It can likewise be used on AoE spells to render groups of things impotent. While it doesn't kill things outright, it renders them so ineffectual for so long, it amounts to the same thing. It uses a higher level spell slot, but, considering all the means out there to change energy types otherwise manipulate spells, only a very few corner case encoutners can be challenging where it's available.