Taking a break from Chapter 2
Action Points
There is no real conversion involved, either you can choose to use them or don't. There is another option in the Advanced Player's Guide; Hero Points.
I would choose to replace Action Points with Hero Points but I also think some mods to Hero Points will have to be done of that is the case.
First I leave the Hero Point spells and items alone. Next allow Hero Points to do what Action Points do listed under Special Actions on pg. 46 of the ECS. Of course instead of turn or rebuke undead it be extra uses of Channel and ignore the Stablize section because we already have Cheat Death with the Hero Points.
Skills
As Listed except for the following changes.
Craft: Add; the following paragraph to the end of the Repair Warforged section: Repairing warforged requires some crafting expertise. This particular use of the Craft skill cannot be performed untrained. (This is from the Errata)
Forgery: ESC, pg. 46 This use of the Forgery Skill now applies to the Linguistics Skill, using the same rules listed.
Speak Language: Add this to the table; Lanaguage: Gnome, Typical Speaker: Gnome, Alphabet: Dwarven. (This is from the Errata)
Feats
As Listed except the following.
Action Boost: Remove, if not using Action Points.
Action Surge: Remove, if not using Action Points.
Bind Elemental: With the nature of how planar binding is needed to be used, it cannot substituted with an increase DC check. The artificer is the except to this, following the rules presented in the feat except change the DC to 15+caster level and the result penalty to -15.
Child of Winter: In Progress, specifically the additions to Summon Nature's Ally additions. Some are redundant and CLs need to be reviewed.
Ecclesiarch: change the prerequisite to 4 ranks and remove Gather Information from Benefit.
Extend Rage: Replaced by Extra Rage
Extra Music: Replaced by Extra Performance
Extra Rings: change caster level prerequisite to 8th.
Great Rend: Replace with Rending Claws from Advanced Player`s Guide.
Greater Dragonmark: change the prerequisite skill ranks to 8.
Greensinger: Change Hide to Stealth.
Haunting Melody: Remove, replaced by Dirge of Doom class option.
Heroic Spirit: Remove if not using Action Points. Replace with Hero's Fortune if replacing Action Points with Hero Points.
Improved Fortification: removed, use armor fortification.
Investigate: Like Tracking, in stead of being a Feat, just add it to the options for Perception as a Train Only Option, replacing all mentions of Search with Perception.
Knight Training: Remove, not an issue in Pathfinder.
Legendary Artisan: Remove, not an issue in Pathfinder.
Lesser Dragonmark: Change prerequisite skill ranks to 5.
Monastic Training: Remove, not an issue in Pathfinder.
Music of Growth, Music of Making and Soothe the Beast: Not sure about these ones. Part of me wants to just remove them as their are similar options already or just make them new performances for a bard character to choose from.
Precise Swing: Replaced by Blind-Feat feat tree?
Pursue: Replace with Step-Up. Optional: Instead of using an immediate action one could spend an Action Point or Hero Point. If one does spend a point to use this action instead of an immediate action, you do not loose your 5-foot step for your next step or from your total movement.
Raging Luck: Remove if not using Action Points. If using either Point system, use this Benefit instead: You gain 1 temporary action/hero point while raging per combat. If you don`t use this action/hero point during your rage, it disappears when your rage ends.
Recognize Imposter: Change prerequisites ranks to 2, change all Spots to Perception.
Repel Aberration: Replace the body of Benefit with this: You can, as a standard action cause all aberrations within 60 feet of you to be held at bay, unable to move toward you as long as you Concentrate.
Aberrations receive a Will save to negate the effect and receive a new check each round. The DC for this Will save is equal to 10+ 1/2 your druid level + your Charisma modifier.
An affected aberration is held at bay, unable to move toward you as long as you Concentrate. The aberration`s actions not otherwise restricted: It can fight other creatures, use its supernatural or spell-like abilities, and attack you with ranged weapons. If you move closer to it, the aberration is forced to move back during their turn but are free to take a standard action against you (ie melee attack) then take a move action. If a warded aberration moves away from you and then tries to turn back toward you, it can`t move any closer.
You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Cha modifier. The Extra Channeling feat grants you extra uses of this ability.
Research: Like Tracking, instead of being a feat, simply add these as options to the Knowledge Skills. Research a Topic can be made untrained while Examine Records is a Trained Only unless the Complexity of Code is Basic which can be made untrained.
Shifter Ferocity: Replace Benefit with this: While shifting, you continue to fight without penalty if you are disabled or dying. When reduced to 0 HP or lower, you may take actions as usual and do not fall unconscious. You do not lose HP for taking this actions and are considered stable. When your HP goes below negative your Con, you immediately die.
If still negative hit points when your shifting ends, immediately check for still being stable or not unless you gain hit points for coming out of shifting.
Song of the Heart: Removed, redundant in Pathfinder.
Spontaneous Casting: Remove if not using Action Points. If using Hero Points, replace the use of Action Points with Hero Points.
Strong Mind: Skipping for Now
Totem Companion: Coming back to this Later.
Urban Tracking: Turn into a Train Only Option for Diplomacy, replacing all indications of Gather Information with Diplomacy.
Vermin Companion: Skipping for now.
Vermin Shape: Skipping for now.
Warden Initiate: Replace Jump with Acrobatics.
Bind Elemental: I would make a prerequisite for creation of certain magic items.
Dragonmark, Greater: hadn't it required 12 ranks in 3.5, which translate to 9 ranks in PF?
Dragonmark, Lesser: as for greater dragonmark, shouldn't it require 6 ranks as IIRC it could be taken at 6th level at earliest?
Extra Ring: Forge Ring normally requires 7th CL in Pathfinder. Was it your intention to make Extra Ring available at later level than Forge Ring or is it just type?
First I like to start with I made a typo and it is to late to finish.
Instead of "As Listed except the following." It should of been "As Listed in ECS (Eberron Campaign Setting) except for the following below:"
Which clears some of this up, I think but I will continue anyways.
Bind Elemental: I would make a prerequisite for creation of certain magic items.
I thought it was stated in the rest of the text in the book for the feat but it appears not to be but it also should be a 'common sense' rule but should be stated and may require a bit closer look at the Binding Elemental rules.
(ON a side note, as per the book, its Prerequisites are Craft Wondrous Item and Caster Level 9th.)
Dragonmark, Greater: hadn't it required 12 ranks in 3.5, which translate to 9 ranks in PF?
My mistake, you are correct.
Dragonmark, Lesser: as for greater dragonmark, shouldn't it require 6 ranks as IIRC it could be taken at 6th level at earliest?
Same mistake, and on that note I need to review a few others.
Extra Ring: Forge Ring normally requires 7th CL in Pathfinder. Was it your intention to make Extra Ring available at later level than Forge Ring or is it just type?
The original was caster level 12th , along with 3.5 Forge Ring being 12th. This seems a bit odd to me that Forge Ring would be a prerequisite yet the Caster the same level for Extra Rings so I made Extra Rings Caster Level 8th because it just seem to make more sense. Also I still have Forge Ring be a prerequisite, in case I made myself unclear.
Arg, also forgot to mention Extraordinary Artisan and Exceptional Artisan cannot be taken multiple times.
The original was caster level 12th , along with 3.5 Forge Ring being 12th. This seems a bit odd to me that Forge Ring would be a prerequisite yet the Caster the same level for Extra Rings so I made Extra Rings Caster Level 8th because it just seem to make more sense. Also I still have Forge Ring be a prerequisite, in case I made myself unclear.
Extra Ring: Forge Ring normally requires 7th CL in Pathfinder. Was it your intention to make Extra Ring available at later level than Forge Ring or is it just type?
I initially thought that Artificer could get Forge Ring as a bonus feat and Extra Rings as regular 12th level feat but after checking the facts I noticed that Artificer didn't get Forge Ring until 14th level. However then it occured to me that it is simply the case of follow-up feat keeping the requirements of the initial feat that is often done. Also, note the same CL required on both feats can be important for multiclass characters: Wizard 7 can get Forge Ring as his 7th character level feat, then get two Fighter levels because he always desired to be gish and then as his 9th level he wants to pick Extra Rings. Opsie. He can't, while in 3.5 he would be able of doing so (of course after Wiz 7th level replaced with 12th and two Fighter levels with three to meet 3.5 requirements/feat gains).
Child Of Winter: Pathfinder has already Vermin Heart feat. I would say that Child Of Winter should have Vermin Heart as a prerequisite. It could expand summon nature's ally options list and maybe give some additional vermin-related benefit. Possibly fuse it with Vermin Shape to allow the druid's Wildshape to mimic effects of vermin shape spells.
On a few other feats (I understand that you try to do conversion mostly so my opinions are very optional as I like to not only convert but also update and sometimes rework things from 3.5 to PF)
Beast Shape: I like the idea of feat that expands list of polymorph options. The only gripe with it is its prerequisite Beast Totem feat.
Beast Totem: Uh. Crap not worth anything except as a prerequisite to Beast Shape. I would do something with it to make it worthwhile. Or just rename Beast Shape to Beast Totem and drop the prerequisite.
Dragon Rage: I would make it into rage power (unless there already is some rage power that increase natural armor, I would have to check).
Educated: Another thing I would have to check but I think that there was a feat giving +2 to two Knowledges in PF but I may be mistaking some variation of 3.5 feat.
Music of Growth, Music of Making and Soothe the Beast: I'd make them into masterpieces or class features of some archetypes.
Shifter Ferocity: I would just make it grant ferocity universal monster rule while shifting (i.e. can act as disabled while dying), with the caveat that it synergize with Diehard allowing taking a full action or a standard and move action while dying.
Shifter Multiattack: I am unconvinced by this - if there should be feat that allows for effective attack with natural weapon together with weapon attack (which I think is the intention behind this feat) it should be available to other races with natural attacks and not only the shifters.
Vermin Companion: Redundant as Ultimate Magic contains rules for vermin companions for druids.
One solution I've been bouncing around in my head is to remove the skill bonus from the Least Dragonmark, and make it a trait instead of a feat. That way, it wouldn't compete with actual feats for usefulness. 360 gp's worth of coolness is about right for a trait - maybe a little high, but given the strong tie to the setting I think it's OK. A basic trait effect normally is "+1 to a skill and it becomes a class skill for you" - in effect, +4 to that skill if it's not already a class skill (and if it was, you probably wouldn't have taken that trait). A +4 skill item would cost 1,600 gp, so in comparison the 360 gp for a dragonmark is pretty cheap. In addition, Serpent's Skull Player's Guide, one of the campaign traits gives you 300 extra gp with which to start the game.
I like the idea of turning least dragonmark into trait. And to compare, standard traits contain one that grants 1st level character 900 gp.
I would also prefer to tweak lesser, greater and aberrant dragonmarks so they would scale better. Maybe grant them extra daily uses for higher level characters without need for spending extra feats on them (an option from Dragonmarked Houses, I think) or maybe allowing such characters to use any associated spell without needing to pick one when the feat is selected (but still limited to one use per day).
I haven't gotten to that Chapter yet.
Dragonmarks seemed to be, in 3.5 at least, modeled to allow someone to take the Least feat at 1st level, the Lesser feat at 6th lvl and the Greater feat at 9th level, with the Siberys Prestige Class being available at 12th Level.
To Reflect the feat change progression in Pathfinder I would suggest changing the level prerequisites to 1st, 5th, 9th.
The Dragonmarks themselves are rather powerful weak as currently written as well, while I have simply made them more powerful in my own version of Pathfinder Eberron that may not be what you are looking for.
Just my two coppers.
Just want to thank every one so far for thier opions, catching what I miss and suggestions.
On a few other feats (I understand that you try to do conversion mostly so my opinions are very optional as I like to not only convert but also update and sometimes rework things from 3.5 to PF)...
I do what I think is needed.
You might want to take a look at some work another has done on this type of stuff at Eberron in Pathfinder. They have some interesting ideas for Dragonmarks, including a sorcerer bloodline for each Dragonmark. Also, handling Dragonmarks with the Eldritch Heritage feat.
Thanks @xorial, some inspiration on the site that can help me out.
I'm really not a fan of the sorcerer bloodline/Eldritch Heritage version of dragonmarks.
The whole point of dragonmarks is that they're an add-on to whatever other abilities you have, and open to non-spellcasters. In particular, they are open to people with NPC classes, like Experts. The best house Jorasco healer in town is a 6th-level Expert with Heal +13 and the ability to cast cure light wounds 2/day and neutralize poison 1/day. He's not a 6th level sorcerer who can cast both fireball and lesser restoration.
I agree with on this completely but there are other things on the site.
So, Dragonmarks. There seems to be some conversy here. Alot believes it is under powered in the originial form/does not scale well with leveling. We hav several factors to work with here, one being is we have no real similiarities in PF to compare them to. Two everyone seems to think they need to stand alone without having to really take the other feats as well. So how do we build them to do that yet not get broken as you buy the other ones and still have them capable with the Dragonmark Hier Prestige class. First lets look at them with only the skill prerequisete lowered and the skill bonus changed to the conversion.
Assuming a Cha of 12, Using Mark of Detection (First one in teh book) and picking the first power on each list.
Least Dragonmark - Level 1
Detect Magic 2/day +2 to Perception
DC 11, Caster Level 1
Lesser Dragonmark - Level 6
Detect Magic 3/day +2 Perception
DC 11, Caster Level 6
See Invisibilty 1/day
DC 13, Caster Level 6
Greater Dragonmark - Level 9
Detect Magic 4/day +2 Perception
DC 11, Caster Level 10
See Invisibilty 2/day
DC 13, Caster Level 10
True Seeing 1/day
DC 17, Caster Level 10
One idea I had was perhaps give each house two skill bonus to choose from, plus that skill becoming a permant class skill for the character.
Membership in the house (regardless if you have a dragonmark or not) should be a trait and it could grant one skill (possibly selected from two different) as class skill and +1 trait bonus to it. Maybe scale up the trait bonus granted by the trait with each Dragonmark feat taken?
Member Of House Medani: Half-elf only. The Perception becomes a class skill for the character and he gains +1 trait bonus to Perception checks. This bonus increases by 1 for each Dragonmark feat taken. The character can manifest Mark Of Detection by taking Least Dragonmark feat. Additionally the character gains benefits and drawbacks of being a low-ranking member of dragonmarked house.
EDIT: What pairs of skills would you associate with particular Marks?
Detection: Perception and Sense Motive
Finding: Perception and Survival (=tracking)
Handling: Handle Animal and Ride
Healing: Heal and Craft: Alchemy?
Hospitality: Diplomacy and Profession?
Making: Craft and Use Magic Device?
Passage: Survival and Knowledge [nature] or maybe Swim?
Scribing: Linguistics and Knowledge [arcana] or maybe Spellcraft?
Sentinel: Sense Motive and Perception (mirrors Detection but it seems to best fit for me) or maybe Sense Motive and Intimidate?
Shadow: Stealth and Disguise?
Storm: Acrobatics and Swim?
Warding: Uh... Perception again and Disable Device?
Death: Knowledge [religion] and Intimidate?
Membership in the house (regardless if you have a dragonmark or not) should be a trait
Nope, completely disagree on this. First, name one faction that requires a trait in Paizo's campaign setting. Second, traits are an optional rule (though I plan on using them). Flavor wise, you don't have to be part of the faction to have a Dragonmark. Most are but you have a few who chose not to be in the house, those that have been rejected and the rare bastard child. Speaking of Factions, I am thinking of using the Faction Guide which might replace the Favored in House feat.
and it could grant one skill (possibly selected from two different) as class skill and +1 trait bonus to it. Maybe scale up the trait bonus granted by the trait with each Dragonmark feat taken?Member Of House Medani: Half-elf only. The Perception becomes a class skill for the character and he gains +1 trait bonus to Perception checks. This bonus increases by 1 for each Dragonmark feat taken. The character can manifest Mark Of Detection by taking Least Dragonmark feat. Additionally the character gains benefits and drawbacks of being a low-ranking member of dragonmarked house.
Also don't like the idea of a trait feeding on feats, is there even a president?
EDIT: What pairs of skills would you associate with particular Marks?
Detection: Perception and Sense Motive Agree
Finding: Perception and Survival (=tracking) AgreeHandling: Handle Animal and Ride I can see Ride but lean closer to Knowledge (nature)
Healing: Heal and Craft: Alchemy? This is hard one, Profession Herblist?
Hospitality: Diplomacy and Profession? Agree
Making: Craft and Use Magic Device? Disable Device instead of UMD?
Passage: Survival and Knowledge [nature] Actaully I think Ride instead of Knowledge (nature)
Scribing: Linguistics and Knowledge [arcana] I would think Diplomacy, not Knowledge (arcana)
Sentinel: Sense Motive and Perception (mirrors Detection but it seems to best fit for me) Agree, some overlap should be expected.
Shadow: Stealth and Disguise? Agree, the other likely option would be Bluff instead of Disguise.
Storm: Acrobatics and Swim I think Knowledge (nature) would fit better or Profession Sailer.
Warding: Perception again and Disable Device? Agree
Death: Knowledge [religion] and Intimidate? Not really concerned about at the moment.
Membership in the house (regardless if you have a dragonmark or not) should be a traitNope, completely disagree on this. First, name one faction that requires a trait in Paizo's campaign setting. Second, traits are an optional rule (though I plan on using them).
I see your point here - taking the trait should not be obligatory prerequisite of being a house member. Instead, it would be a way of gaining house skill and representation of house background (i.e. you can take a trait to represent the fact that you are trained in the house skill).
Also, It should not be prerequisite for taking the Dragonmark feats, instead it would fix your choice of Dragonmark in the future.
Flavor wise, you don't have to be part of the faction to have a Dragonmark. Most are but you have a few who chose not to be in the house, those that have been rejected and the rare bastard child. Speaking of Factions, I am thinking of using the Faction Guide which might replace the Favored in House feat.
Using factions for Dragonmarked Houses seems ok.
Also don't like the idea of a trait feeding on feats, is there even a president?
None that I'd know. The closes idea would be heirloom weapon when you get proficiency with particular weapon and then take Weapon Focus and other weapon-specific feats to improve on it.
Handling: Handle Animal and Ride I can see Ride but lean closer to Knowledge (nature)
I haven't thought about it but you are right, Knowledge [nature] is lore about animals.
Passage: Survival and Knowledge [nature] Actaully I think Ride instead of Knowledge (nature)
Duh, we both forgot about one obvious for travelers: Knowledge [geography]!
Scribing: Linguistics and Knowledge [arcana] I would think Diplomacy
Haven't thought about them this way. Could work.
Shadow: Stealth and Disguise? Agree, the other likely option would be Bluff instead of Disguise.
Another option would be Perform.
Storm:Acrobatics and Swim I think Knowledge (nature) would fit better or Profession Sailer.
Knowledge [nature] probably. Profession is class skill for more classes than knowledge.
Hey everyone.
I just started a new (and my first) wiki, in an effort to have a place where we could collect and discuss all the different takes on the Eberron to Pathfinder conversions, since there will almost definitley never be an official version.
I hope there are many of you who like to participate by sharing their conversions, ideas or simply constructive critic.
As I said, it is my very first wiki, so if you have tips and tricks to help me manage it, you are very much welcome.
Aberrant Dragonmark: After `once per day` add `and addition use per day every 6th level after (6th, 12th and 18th) until after 18th
Remove light has a mark power option.
Least Dragonmark: Benefit: Add at the end of the first paragraph `and choose a skill bonus associated with your house. The chosen skill is always a class skill to you.`
Replace the last paragraph with `Your caster level for your dragonmark spell-like ability and possible future abilities is half your character level plus your levels in the dragonmark heir prestige class (if any).`
Lesser Dragonmark: Change prerequisite skill ranks to 6.
Benefit: Add `Chosen skill bonus increases by 1.` Ignore the last paragraph.
Greater Dragonmark: change the prerequisite skill ranks to 9.
Benefit: Add `Chosen skill bonus increases by 1 again.` Ignore the last paragraph.
The following overrules the Dragonmark (pg. 62-670 section: All call outs for numbers of uses per day are replaced with the following. All least dragonmarks use per days start as 3/day, lesser 2/day and greater at 1/day.
Replace Skill bonus with this:
House Skills
Detection +2 Bonus to Perception or Sense Motive
Finding +2 Bonus to Perception or Survival
Handling +2 Bonus to Handle Animal or Knowledge (nature)
Healing +2 Bonus to Heal or Craft (alchemy)
Hospitality +2 Bonus to Diplomacy or Knowledge (local)
Making +2 Bonus to Craft or Disable Device
Passage +2 Bonus to Survival or Ride
Scribing +2 Bonus to Linguists or Diplomacy
Sentinel +2 Bonus to Sense Motive or Perception
Shadow +2 Bonus to Diplomacy or Disguise
Storm +2 Bonus to Acrobatics or Survival
Warding +2 Bonus to Perception or Disable Device
The Dark Six: Add this sentence to the introductory paragraph of this section: Taken as a whole, the pantheon is neutral evil, and its favored weapon is the kama. (This is from the Errata).
Deities by Class: Add the following to the table
Alchemist Aureon (LN), the Shadow (CE), the Traveler (CN), the Blood of Vol (LE) and the Undying Court (NG)
Anti-Paladin The Fury (NE), The Mockery (NE), the Cults of the Dragon Below (NE)
Cavalier Boldrei (N), Dol Arrah (LG), Dol Dorn (CG), the Fury (NE), the Keeper (NE), the Mockery (NE), The Blood of Vol (LE) and Path of Light (LN)
Inquisitor The Silver Flame (LG), Aureon (LN), Boldrei (LG), the Keeper (NE), the Blood of Vol (LE), Path of Light
Magus Aureon (LN), Dol Arrah (LG), the Mockery (NE), the Shadow (CE), the Traveler (CN), the Undying Court (NG)
Ninja See Rogue
Oracle Any
Samurai See Cavalier
Summoner the Silver Flame (LG), Balinor (N), Aureon (LN), the Mockery (NE), the Shadow (CE), the Cults of the Dragon Below (NE)
Witch Any or None
I thought about Dragonmarks, how about:
"You can use any of your dragonmarks' spell-like abilities a number of times per day equal to half your character-level + your Charisma modifier.
Each spell costs a number of uses per day equal to the level of the spell (0 level = 1/2 level).
Save DC against these abilities is 10 + spell level + CHA.
Caster level is equal to your character level."
So taking higher tier dragonmarks simply gives you more powerful spells to cast.
I thought about Dragonmarks, how about:
"You can use any of your dragonmarks' spell-like abilities a number of times per day equal to half your character-level + your Charisma modifier.
Each spell costs a number of uses per day equal to the level of the spell (0 level = 1/2 level).
Save DC against these abilities is 10 + spell level + CHA.
Caster level is equal to your character level."So taking higher tier dragonmarks simply gives you more powerful spells to cast.
Not doing any math but I think it come down to casting X spell once and a weaker spell or cast X weaker spells a bunch of times per day.
Also I think there is a clear intent in the build of these feats to make someone want to take the other ones/Dragonmark Heir Prestige Class. I am sure the common school of thought is they all should stand alone but...why? Do all feats need to be created equal? Clearly they aren't already and some of them I think is on purpose.
I don't think I get your point.
Maybe some clarification of my idea first:
1) Every dragonmarked character only gets ONE pool of uses. (half level + CHA, mabye bonus from Dragonmark Heir)
2) If you only have "Least DM", you can only cast one 0, 1st or 2nd level spell (depending on the DM), but both with increasing caster level and times per day.
This way, the Least DM is bumbed a bit, but after a certain character level, those spells aren't that big a deal anymore.
3) Solution, take the higher tier DMs and get higher leveled spells.
(But you have to choose which to cast, since you only got one pool)
I would like to see the DM spells a bit more streamlined. Some Least marks give a 2nd level where others only have 0 or 1st level.
I am thinking about:
Lesser (Least): 0 and 1st
Minor (Lesser): 2nd and 3rd
Major: 4th and 5th
Greater: 6th and 7th
Siberys: 8th and 9th.
For feats, I'd suggest keeping Investigate (with Urban Tracking added) as niche protection for the investigator type.
I see your point Journ but also seems against some of the changes that Paizo did.
As for the dragon marks, the problem is that they confer bonuses not calculated out exactly and dependent on DM. In some games it won't mean anything because the DM isn't interested. In others it'll mean you always have help, never wait in line, go to all the best parties and get everything discounted. The Favored in House feat supes this up quite a bit as does the Heir but even without that it's still a major social/political/economic/cultural point. But it's hard to model that without getting too complicated.
Other changes, Educated, can be taken later if enough downtime happens, also the +1s turn to +2s at 10 ranks.
Too late to edit. But I'd make the Educated feat mechanically identical to the breath of experience (I think, the one for people over 100) or maybe offer it as a trait with a +1 to two knowledge skills and make one a class skill.