Hi All,
I'm building a mage for my current campaign. She 20th level, probably a wizard although maybe a sorcerer. She's previously been an occasionally seen NPC, but the coming campaign arc suggests she'll be a much closer ally of the PCs and might even accompany them on a couple of adventures, so she's finally getting a full set of stats.
Previous campaign lore has determined she's capable of changing into a panther (via supernatural ability rather than cast spell), and I'm trying to find a way to represent this power mechanically. I've considered making her a lycanthrope, but this seems a little obvious.
I'm interested in suggestions of any arcane-orientated feats, prestige classes or similar that grant a character some kind of beast form. Third party and old 3.5 material are welcomed as warmly as core Pathfinder rules.
Cheers!
Consider either a Transmutation Specialist Wizard of a Beast-Bonded Witch. At 8th level, they both get the spell-like ability to shape change per Beast Shape II. The Wizard gets per rounds and the Witch per minutes.
If you must make it a "supernatural ability", then consider taking/making a feat that allows a "spell-like" ability to become a "supernatural-like" ability. "Wild shape" is a Su, but limited per hours a day. So, it would not be cheesy for an arcane caster to have this ability if they paid the feat tax. Just make it available to the other PCs so they don't feel slighted.
Remember, if your caster will be spending significant time in animal form, I think most DMs would allow the caster to take "natural spell".
Let us know what you end up doing.
Also, spell-like abilities do not have verbal, material, or somatic components.
Many thanks to The Doctor. I'm showing my lack of knowledge regarding Pathfinder, as Transmutation specialist will suit my purposes perfectly, just as written.
An important thing to consider to is that the PC's never have to know how she does it.
In fact, it can be alot more fun for them if they don't. Is she a lycanthrope? Is it from magic? SU? EX? who knows? They don't.
It could be a magical item, a permanent spell effect, a boon from the gods, a Polymorph spell, she could be a dragon with a 9th level version of Non-detection that allows her to skip through true seeing spells or really anything on earth that you want.
The PC's need never know how. Don't tell them- even if you decide its just some class ability. They never, ever get to see her character sheet.
Keep the mystery alive.
:)
-S
That's a very good point Selgard, and up to this point the PCs have been in the dark.
However, we have a small group of two (sometimes three) players. In order to 'beef up' the party (and sometimes to drive the plot), we regularly have 'guest stars' join the party. This wizard might well be one of them, in which case one of the player's will be able to get his grubby hands on her character sheet and play her for an adventure or two.
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The NPC caster could have the Preferred Spell feat or the Major Spell Expertise feat. Either could apply to Beast Shape 2, ensuring that a change to an animal's form is more common for that wizard.
However, you could also just go with the idea that she likes cats. BIG cats. She tends to keep a Beast Shape memorized so that she can indulge in her preference at any time. Perhaps she uses Still Spell or other metamagic feats in case she is grappled. That would add some mystery, since people may come to believe her ability is supernatural. Unless you want to limit her transformations to just the panther shape for some reason, I'd make it simply her perrogotive, her favorite shape.
hmm a lesser extend rod with beeast shape I would work. (or maybe some of the better rods with the later spells, too)
-S
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Sounds like you are arcane focused, but you might also consider the a Dark Tapestry Oracle, (from Ultimate Magic) they get a shape change ability which starts as alter self then goes to Beast Shape I then later Beast Shape III, including magical beasts. It's limited to size medium/ small only though.
Polymorph any object + Multimorph arcane discovery. As long as you turn into somethign similar to your own race at last one minute before the timer runs out on your current form you'll effectively have infinite possibilities (within spell limit).
I have a character inquiring about this combination. My rule would be that if he's changing attributes but keeps his duration at greater than 1 day he can remain polymorphed. However, I would make this require the use of his spell slot on any day when he modifies himself. Otherwise it seems very broken - You could turn into a dragon for 18 minutes, then turn yourself back into you base form with different colored eyes and the spell would persist, letting you change back into a dragon.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.
I have a character inquiring about this combination. My rule would be that if he's changing attributes but keeps his duration at greater than 1 day he can remain polymorphed. However, I would make this require the use of his spell slot on any day when he modifies himself. Otherwise it seems very broken - You could turn into a dragon for 18 minutes, then turn yourself back into you base form with different colored eyes and the spell would persist, letting you change back into a dragon.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.
I'm playing a wizard in my high level game that can do this. As humanoid changes are based on alter self he can't turn back into his own race or the spell duration ends. So he's an elf originally. He can turn into a human or half elf with a "permanent" duration and maintain the spell (remember permanent isn't instant). However if he turns into an elf the spell ends, regardless of if he alters something minor such as his eyes.
I know it sounds like it, but once you get 8th level spells this isn't that powerful of an ablity. It's certainly powerful and cool, but if you follow the rules it still pales in comparison to other 15h level abilities. Oh, also it requires a spell per day and a feat. Not to mention good timing.
Alter self says nothing about changing small features. Only polymorphing into other humanoid races.
for reference
Alter Self
School transmutation (polymorph); Level bard 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume)
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 min./level (D)
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the humanoid type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision , scent , and swim 30 feet.
Small creature : If the form you take is that of a Small humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity .
Medium creature : If the form you take is that of a Medium humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength .
Coffee,
I guess the question is about the wording of Polymorph Any Object and how duration is affected.
If you make a change that is permanent (a half-orc to an elf), then change into a dragon or something (with a duration) then back to an elf does the spell stay in effect?
edit: He's trying to use polymorph any object on himself to transform himself into a "slightly different half-orc" that has all the same abilities, levels, bonuses, etc which would be a permanent polymorph under the rules of the spell. From that form he feels he could then change as a standard action using his multi-morph ability to change into anything and then back to his "similar self" when he's done. This seems very broken and I'm having trouble explaining why. He feels that he can do anything under PAO using those duration rules unless he specifically wants to use Draconic Form, Beast Shape, or another polymorph spell.
School transmutation (polymorph); Level sorcerer/wizard 8
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (mercury, gum arabic, and smoke)
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one creature, or one nonmagical object of up to 100 cu. ft./level
Duration see text
Saving Throw Fortitude negates (object); see text; Spell Resistance yes (object)
This spell functions like greater polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another. You can use this spell to transform all manner of objects and creatures into new forms—you aren't limited to transforming a living creature into another living form. The duration of the spell depends on how radical a change is made from the original state to its transmuted state. The duration is determined by using the following guidelines.
Changed Subject Is… Increase to Duration Factor*
Same kingdom (animal, vegetable, mineral) +5
Same class (mammals, fungi, metals, etc.) +2
Same size +2
Related (twig is to tree, wolf fur is to wolf, etc.) +2
Same or lower Intelligence +2
*Add all that apply. Look up the total on the next table.
Duration Factor Duration Example
0 20 minutes Pebble to human
2 1 hour Marionette to human
4 3 hours H uman to marionette
5 12 hours Lizard to manticore
6 2 days Sheep to wool coat
7 1 week Shrew to manticore
9+ Permanent Manticore to shrew
If the target of the spell does not have physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution), this spell grants a base score of 10 to each missing ability score. If the target of the spell does not have mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma), this spell grants a score of 5 to such scores. Damage taken by the new form can result in the injury or death of the polymorphed creature. In general, damage occurs when the new form is changed through physical force. A nonmagical object cannot be made into a magic item with this spell. Magic items aren't affected by this spell.
This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine. It also cannot reproduce the special properties of cold iron in order to overcome the damage reduction of certain creatures.
This spell can also be used to duplicate the effects of baleful polymorph, greater polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud.
Coffee,
I guess the question is about the wording of Polymorph Any Object and how duration is affected.
If you make a change that is permanent (a half-orc to an elf), then change into a dragon or something (with a duration) then back to an elf does the spell stay in effect?
** spoiler omitted **...
As long as you have at least a one minute buffer (since multi-morph eats one minute to change shape) and you turn into something with a longer duration (up to and including permanent), you never turn back into your original race, and it never gets dispelled I see no reason why you couldn't effectively have a PAO effect always on.
Though my character can he typically changes back into his original race at the end of the day. He likes being an elf.
Bear in mind that Polymorphing doent't work like it did in 3.5. It'll augument your stats, but even so most wizards still won't be effective Melee'ers given the limits of the spell and their levels.
It is kind of awesome for utility though. Nothing you couldn't do with other means, but still fun and flavorful.
As long as you have at least a one minute buffer (since multi-morph eats one minute to change shape) and you turn into something with a longer duration (up to and including permanent), you never turn back into your original race, and it never gets dispelled I see no reason why you couldn't effectively have a PAO effect always on.Though my character can he typically changes back into his original race at the end of the day. He likes being an elf.
Bear in mind that Polymorphing doent't work like it did in 3.5. It'll augument your stats, but even so most wizards still won't be effective Melee'ers given the limits of the spell and their levels.
It is kind of awesome for utility though. Nothing you couldn't do with other means, but still fun and flavorful.
Where are you reading the "If you turn back it's dispelled"? I haven't found it. The problem is that he, being a half-orc wizard, wants to polymorph himself into a half-orc wizard using PAO. He's saying that since you can affect large changes w/ PAO you can also affect very small changes. He'll polymorph his eyebrows and call it a new form. I say he can't be a half-orc and have it be in affect- he could turn himself into a gnome permanently if he likes.
He reads PAO's "can also be used to duplicate the effects" as an option that he doesn't have to take whereas I read it as "If you're doing something covered by this lower-level spell you're using this spell."
The longest duration for Poly any object is "Permanent." Permanent mens that it is an on going spell effect that can be dispelled like any other ongoing spell effect, such as mage armor.
Per Poly any object turning humanoid uses the Alter self rules. Show me in that spell where you can change your eyecolor.
Slight correction. PAO works like Greater Polymorph with a different duration. Greater polymorph works like Alter self when taking humanoid form. Therefore PAO works like Alter self when taking humanoid form.
Polymorph, Greater
School transmutation (polymorph); Level sorcerer/wizard 7
This spell functions as polymorph except that it allows the creature to take on the form of a dragon or plant creature. If you use this spell to cause the target to take on the form of an animal or magical beast, it functions as beast shape IV . If the form is that of an elemental, the spell functions as elemental body III . If the form is that of a humanoid, the spell functions as alter self . If the form is that of a plant, the spell functions as plant shape II . If the form is that of a dragon, the spell functions as form of the dragon I . The subject may choose to resume its normal form as a full-round action; doing so ends the spell.
Slight correction. PAO works like Greater Polymorph works like Alter self when taking humanoid form. Therefore PAO works like Alter self when taking humanoid form.
I guess the semantics boil down to what is a "humanoid form". Can he polymorph into a DIFFERENT half-orc? The logic is that if you can do big changes with a polymorph spell you should be able to do smaller changes. He's getting caught up on the phrase "can also be used to duplicate the effects" and saying "Well, I don't want to COMPLETELY change form and gain abilities, just my outward appearance so I can use PAO. It seems like the important part is "This spell functions like greater polymorph". I'll go with that.
Slight correction. PAO works like Greater Polymorph works like Alter self when taking humanoid form. Therefore PAO works like Alter self when taking humanoid form.I guess the semantics boil down to what is a "humanoid form". Can he polymorph into a DIFFERENT half-orc? The logic is that if you can do big changes with a polymorph spell you should be able to do smaller changes. He's getting caught up on the phrase "can also be used to duplicate the effects" and saying "Well, I don't want to COMPLETELY change form and gain abilities, just my outward appearance so I can use PAO. It seems like the important part is "This spell functions like greater polymorph". I'll go with that.
You're welcome to play it however you want, but requiring him to polymorph to another race (like human or orc for example) isn't a terrible thing. It lends to the "realism of magic"(I know. I know) in my humble opinion. Even with magic nothing is free.
Though we're talking abouut magical logic and thus it's all about DM interpretation, I don't see anywhere that it says fine manipulation of form is possible. Try gently watering an orcid with a firehose. You might be able to do it with difficulty, but it's not what the hose was designed for.
Allowing him to polymorph into a different half orc is fine if you want to go that way, but it lacks flavor in my opinion.
Also, because I know it will eventually come up. Changing from one form into another is a standard action since it's not otherwise stated.
Like I said, it's a cool combo, but it has it's limits. Don't let the player get too crazy.
Yeah, as I look at the spells he's trying to polymorph with the level of control of the Disguise Self spell. I like the firehose analogy and I'll try to explain it that way.
School illusion (glamer); Level bard 1, sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range personal
Target you
Duration 10 min./level (D)
You make yourself—including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment—look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your creature type (although you can appear as another subtype). Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person or gender.
The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form, nor does it alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of you or your equipment. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on the Disguise check. A creature that interacts with the glamer gets a Will save to recognize it as an illusion.
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I had a BBEG use a ring that allowed her to 'hawk' out of several tough spots. The players hated her SO much!
The current emerging BBEG is a Vermin oriented Druid and I'm looking at him having a similar escape by merging with his rat swarm.