Our group generally uses 25-point buy. I decided that I wanted to make an orc that was a paragon of physical ability, but otherwise was as intelligent, perceptive, and sociable as your average brick. I thought it might be fun to roleplay as something of a parody character.
I dropped all three mental attributes to base 7, thereby allowing me a whopping 37 points to attribute to physical stats.
Sadly, that's not enough points for me to get three 18s. I could, however, get two 18s and a 13 (17+17+3=37).
However, I want all three physical stats to be really high. Unfortunately, three 17s is still too expensive (39 points).
I was willing to settle for two 17s and a 16, but that only uses up 36 total points. Normally, I would just spend the last point to up one of my mental attributes slightly, but in this case I can't, as increasing any of my mental attributes by even one point would cost me 2 points of point buy, which means now I'm one short rather than one over.
How is this supposed to be resolved? It seems like a glitch in the point buy system to me.
Make it 2 18's and a 15(13+2 from racial ability mod) and bump the 15 by +1 every four levels.
18 for 17 points and two 16s for 10 point each? 17+10+10=37.
EDIT: Thalin apparently placed his 18 in Dexterity to be better and ninjing others! (or should it be ninjaing?)
Our group generally uses 25-point buy. I decided that I wanted to make an orc that was a paragon of physical ability, but otherwise was as intelligent, perceptive, and sociable as your average brick. I thought it might be fun to roleplay as something of a parody character.
I dropped all three mental attributes to base 7, thereby allowing me a whopping 37 points to attribute to physical stats.
Sadly, that's not enough points for me to get three 18s. I could, however, get two 18s and a 13 (17+17+3=37).
However, I want all three physical stats to be really high. Unfortunately, three 17s is still too expensive (39 points).
I was willing to settle for two 17s and a 16, but that only uses up 36 total points. Normally, I would just spend the last point to up one of my mental attributes slightly, but in this case I can't, as increasing any of my mental attributes by even one point would cost me 2 points of point buy, which means now I'm one short rather than one over.
How is this supposed to be resolved? It seems like a glitch in the point buy system to me.
I agree with Canuberon. Just let the extra point go if it's useless to your build being what you want it to be. Some might argue that you have to spend every point until you come to exactly 25 points spent, but that seems a little odd to me, since the point buy is a limit. I'd check with your GM.
Also in agreement Thalin that 18, 16, 16, would be a good bet. Alternatively, 18, 17, 15 isn't bad either if you want to grow into your stats a bit, and may be better for you down the road if not immediately.
Umm... didn't Orcs have a +4 racial mod to STR, anyway?
18 for 17 points and two 16s for 10 point each? 17+10+10=37.
Yes, that will get you 18, 16, 16. Then you add the Racial bonus of +4 Str and you can get a 20, 18, 16.
Unless I'm reading it wrong.
EDIT: Partial ninja from Midnight_Angel
18, 17, 15 or 18, 16, 16 seem like really good spreads for this kind of character.
Still, it seems weird to me that there is the possibility of wasted points at all. It makes the existing point buy system seem...inefficient.
Yea ive run into this in less extreme examples as well, even without droping things to 7. I never ran into that in the old system but I do see the odd extra point cropping up now and again with the pathfinder point buy. Sometimes you just miss out on a point in this system because of the way it scales more rapidly then the one in 3.5 did.
Is it impossible? Or is it possible and you just have to suffer the loss of the spare point?
Perhaps getting an official response on the matter might put my mind at ease.
I always assumed you could lose a point if you wanted to, but i guess there is nothing in the rules to allow it. Might be a worthy faq.
Also in agreement Thalin that 18, 16, 16, would be a good bet. Alternatively, 18, 17, 15 isn't bad either if you want to grow into your stats a bit, and may be better for you down the road if not immediately.
+1, 100%
Who is going to be within your party? If you do have a party who is controlling you?
Who is going to be within your party? If you do have a party who is controlling you?
No party or campaign yet. Just a random character concept.
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How is this supposed to be resolved? It seems like a glitch in the point buy system to me.
No glitch and no way to resolve it. Completely dumping a stat creates the scenario of losing a point. A 7 being the lowest, or tied for the lowest, and 13+ for the rest will create a 1 point loss if your other stats does exactly match it out. It is the cost of squeezing points out of dump stats.
On the stat array, 18,16,16 seems like a solid option. Racials could net you another 18, maybe 2 if you go something like Hobgoblin or Merfolk (only two I see with two physical)
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Lot of work for an NPC who will get hit round 1 with some will effect and die a horrible death :).
If it's a PC, too many people play the all-physical mental-dumped fighter types. Try playing the all mental one instead. The weak Orc genius who was forced to go to Barbarian training so he would "act more like an Orc should" :).
Lot of work for an NPC who will get hit round 1 with some will effect and die a horrible death :).
If it's a PC, too many people play the all-physical mental-dumped fighter types. Try playing the all mental one instead. The weak Orc genius who was forced to go to Barbarian training so he would "act more like an Orc should" :).
and lo, the beastmorph-vivisecionist alchemist was born!
The character that you have in mind shouldn't necessarily be made for a game with a 15-point buy.
If you go ahead with the concept anyway, you'll have to make concessions.
You may aim for 16s or 17s instead of all 18s, because chances are you'll still be way out ahead of the other PCs with those scores. Are you trying to put them to shame or something?
How is this supposed to be resolved? It seems like a glitch in the point buy system to me.
No glitch and no way to resolve it. Completely dumping a stat creates the scenario of losing a point. A 7 being the lowest, or tied for the lowest, and 13+ for the rest will create a 1 point loss if your other stats does exactly match it out. It is the cost of squeezing points out of dump stats.
You can run into this problem without dumping stats. I hit it trying to make a no dump character at 25pts a while back
25pt buy,
15 - 7pts
14 - 5pts
13 - 3pts
13 - 3pts
13 - 3pts
13 - 3pts
24pts with no where to add the last point to.
Lot of work for an NPC who will get hit round 1 with some will effect and die a horrible death :).
If it's a PC, too many people play the all-physical mental-dumped fighter types. Try playing the all mental one instead. The weak Orc genius who was forced to go to Barbarian training so he would "act more like an Orc should" :).
Actually I have a group of 3 point buy orc berserkers who have stats that look similar to this. Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 5, Wis 5, Cha 5. They fight with clubs and slings, and run into combat all but naked. They are supported entirely by their clans, and are strictly a warrior caste. They do nothing but fight, brawl, drink, brawl, fight, etc. They have a fearsome reputation as being amazingly dangerous and frightening to behold, as they recklessly engage enemies with superior weapons and armor without hesitance, and often kill them anyway.
The orc berserkers are CR 1/4 due to being an NPC without gear. During an adventure, the party's spellcaster pulled them out of the frying pan with some well placed colorspray spells, and everyone else readily tried to keep their distance and use reach weapons to avoid the orcs slamming them with their 1d6+9 power attack clubs.
The character that you have in mind shouldn't necessarily be made for a game with a 15-point buy.
If you go ahead with the concept anyway, you'll have to make concessions.
You may aim for 16s or 17s instead of all 18s, because chances are you'll still be way out ahead of the other PCs with those scores. Are you trying to put them to shame or something?
I doubt he'd put 'em to shame, really. 22, 14, 14, 5, 5, 5 is the best he'd get on a 15 point buy. That 22 is pretty gnarly starting out, but you're giving up a lot for it. If there's one thing orcs have, it's definitely brawn. You could hit 18, 14, 14, 7, 13, 7 on a human though, and have less glaring weaknesses and still kill stuff just fine.
Assuming this is for an NPC. Just cheap a little bit and give him the Advanced template for +1CR. That will bump all your base stats by +4.
Or if you want a real brick. Its pretty clear Pathfinder made the point by scale parabolic with a midpoint of 10.5 so you could extend it beyond 7.
6 .... -4
5 .... -7
4 .... -10
3 .... -14
Hmm, 7 is -4 so,
6 = -06
5 = -09
4 = -12
3 = -16
2 = -20
1 = -25
You could pretend that you have a fraction of a stat point, and use it in-game accordingly. For example, it takes 4 points to go from 17 to 18, so your spare point gets 1/4 of a point of Str = 17.5. You can carry an extra 3.5 lbs unencumbered. If you get hit by a Ray of Enfeeblement, there's a 1 in 4 chance of a point being soaked by your fraction. Or 1/4 of a point of Con gets you 1 hp every 4 levels. And so on.
Perhaps more simply, the fraction lets you bump your attributes 1 level earlier (3rd rather than 4th, etc).
Or it gives you about 1/4 of the benefit of an attribute point, so you get 1/4 of what a point would give you. For example, a point of Dex gives on average: +1/2 to Init, Reflex, ranged to-hit, some skills, AC, CMD. So you get +1 bonus to one of them (probably Init).
Or reason that it's worth about 1 Trait, or that it lets you make extra effort occasionally to lift something really heavy (+1d6 on a Str check once per day?), etc.
GM call.
Or, maybe just accept that you have a leftover point?
>rolls eyes<