Help With Archetypes


Homebrew and House Rules

Liberty's Edge

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I am working on a few archetypes for my home brew campaign, and thought these were interesting. I hope none of them are overpowered, but please let me know what you think.

Chivalrous Knight (Fighter archetype)
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A chivalrous knight is not proficient with any light weapons or light armor, or ranged weapons such as darts or crossbows, morally questionable weapons such as shield or armor spikes, or any other weapon that does not rely on his own strength to use properly. He is not proficient with bows, except for composite bows.
Skills: Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), and Sense Motive (Wis) are class skills for the chivalrous knight.
Code of Chivalry (Ex) A chivalrous knight must show courage in the face of danger, mercy to those who have wronged him, and charity to the poor and the meek. He must be just and honorable at all times and in all things. He must defend his honor and, above all else, the honor of those he serves. If a chivalrous knight fails to uphold the code of chivalry, he is cursed and shaken in combat until remove curse or he atones for his misdeeds by atonement. A chivalrous knight is bound by his code to not attack a helpless foe, flank an enemy, or attack a flat-footed enemy.
Voice of the People (Ex) At 1st level, the chivalrous knight gains a +4 competence bonus to Diplomacy skill checks. Further, people who are indifferent or friendly toward the character are more likely to trust him than they are to trust someone else they are indifferent or friendly toward. This ability replaces the bonus fighter combat feat gained at first level.
Courage and Honor (Ex) At 2nd level, the chivalrous knight gains a +1 bonus on saving throws against compulsion effects and fear effects, and this bonus increases every four levels beyond 2nd (to a maximum of +6 at 20th level). This ability replaces bravery and armor training 1.
Challenge Foe (Ex) At 3rd level, a chivalrous knight can choose one enemy to challenge. This foe must be within hearing range of the chivalrous knight, and the challenge must be verbally issued and responded to (as a language-dependent effect). The chivalrous knight gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls, and a +2 morale bonus on damage rolls when attacking that enemy. Both of these bonuses increase by +1 for every four levels beyond 3rd (to a maximum of +5 on attack rolls and +6 on damage rolls at 19th level). The chivalrous knight can choose and challenge a new enemy as a move action, ending the effects of the previous challenge. (A chivalrous knight cannot challenge more than one foe at a time.) This ability replaces weapon training 1 and 2.
Heraldic Device (Ex) At 5th level, a chivalrous knight gains a surcoat or other prominent symbol that displays over his armor. While wearing this surcoat, he gains a +1 bonus on intimidate skill checks, and enemies in melee suffer -1 on attack rolls. These bonuses and penalties increase by 1 for every four levels beyond 5th (to a maximum of +3 and -3 at 17th level). The bonuses and penalties do not apply while the chivalrous knight is dazed, helpless, staggered, stunned, or unconscious. This ability replaces armor training 2, 3, 4 and armor mastery.
Heraldic Prestige (Ex) At 9th level, a chivalrous knight's coat of arms or prominent symbol is well recognized for the good deeds he has done. Allies within 30 feet of the chivalrous knight have a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and saving throws against fear. At 13th level, this bonus increases to +2. Further, the heraldic arms increase the chivalric knight's Leadership score (if any) by +2, and the starting attitudes of unfriendly, indifferent, and friendly creatures are increased by one category if they have heard of the knight's exploits when they encounter him. The bonuses do not apply when the chivalrous knight is dazed, helpless, staggered, stunned, or unconscious. This ability replaces weapon training 3 and 4.

I'm not sure what the chivalrous knight's capstone ability should be, or if it should just remain weapon mastery.

Draconic Ascendant (Wizard archetype)
Draconic Familiar (Su) At 1st level, a draconic ascendant gains a pseudodragon familiar. This ability replaces arcane bond and cantrips, but the draconic ascendant gains the detect magic and read magic cantrips and places them in his spellbook. He can cast either of these as 1st level spells.
School of the Dragon: The strange rituals needed to empower and bind dragons limit a wizard's ability to unlock other arcane mysteries. At 1st level, a draconic ascendant forsakes three schools of magic. Once chosen, these opposition schools cannot be changed. A draconic ascendant who prepares spells from his opposition school must use two spell slots of that level to prepare the spell. In addition, a draconic ascendant takes a -4 penalty on any skill checks made when crafting a magic item that has a spell from one of his opposition schools as a prerequisite. This ability replaces arcane school.
Arcane Discoveries: The following arcane discoveries are only avaiable to a draconic ascendant.
Empower Dragon, Draconic Transformation, Dragon Companion, Dragonrider

Empower Dragon (Arcane Discovery)
Through strange rituals, you can bind magical power to your draconic familiar.
Benefit: Select one of the following templates to apply to your pseudodragon familiar: Half-Celestial, Half-Fiend. Once chosen, this template cannot be changed. The pseudodragon's alignment changes with this arcane discovery, so the use of it may be a good or evil act.

Draconic Transformation (Arcane Discovery)
Your pseudodragon familiar goes into a cocoon of magical energy and emerges as a true dragon.
Benefit: You must be a 10th level draconic ascendant to select this arcane discovery. Your pseudodragon familiar becomes a wyrmling of any chromatic or metallic dragon. It remains your familiar. If it had a template, the template remains, but half-celestial pseudodragons can only become metallic dragons, and half-fiend pseudodragons can only become chromatic dragons.

Dragon Companion (Arcane Discovery)
In a ritual involving you and seven others, you release the true dragon familiar from the bond. As a result of this empowering gift, it grows larger and more powerful.
Benefit: You must be a 15th level draconic ascendant to select this arcane discovery, and also must have selected Draconic Transformation as a previous arcane discovery. You release the familiar bond with the chromatic or metallic dragon familiar. It remains your cohort (as though you had the Leadership feat), and advances to the young adult category as a result of the transforming ritual.

Dragonrider (Arcane Discovery)
The final ritual of the draconic ascendant empowers your dragon cohort, transforming it yet again.
Benefit: You must be a 20th level draconic ascendant to select this arcane discovery, and must also have selected Dragon Companion and Draconic Transformation as previous arcane discoveries. The dragon cohort advances to the old age category as a result of the transforming ritual. The dragon must be willing to go through this process.

Warlock (Sorcerer archetype)
Ritual Knowledge (Ex)
At 1st level, a Warlock knows a hex (as the witch's ability). This ability replaces his 1st-level bloodline power.
Warlock's Curse (Su)
At 3rd level, the Warlock adds bane to his list of spells known as a 2nd-level spell. At 5th level, he adds contagion as a 3rd-level spell. This ability replaces the bloodline spells gained at 3rd and 5th level respectively.
Invocation (Su)
At 9th level, the Warlock can summon a creature (or creatures) related to his bloodline as a full round action. The creature remains for one minute per caster level each day (and can be divided over the day in one-minute increments), but otherwise functions as summon monster V. This ability replaces his 9th-level bloodline power.

Liberty's Edge

Sorry, that should be :

stardust wrote:


Code of Chivalry (Ex) A chivalrous knight must show courage in the face of danger, mercy to those who have wronged him, and charity to the poor and the meek. He must be just and honorable at all times and in all things. He must defend his honor and, above all else, the honor of those he serves. If a chivalrous knight fails to uphold the code of chivalry, he is cursed and shaken in combat until remove curse is cast on him, or he atones for his misdeeds by an atonement spell. A chivalrous knight is bound by his code to not attack a helpless foe, flank an enemy, or attack a flat-footed enemy.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Wow. Very interesting archetypes! I was thinking about how to do a cavalier minus mount, and some way to get dragons into the campaign without Dragon Descendent, and here you have both! Thank you!

A few questions:
1) What is an Arcane Discovery, and how do wizards get one normally? Do you mean the Bonus Feats that wizards get at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter?

2) Should that Empower Dragon ritual be at 5th level, not 1st? It seems a little overpowered to give a 1st-level character a CR 2 companion, even if you are losing Cantrips and a few other things. (Pseudodragon is CR 1, +1 CR for Half-Fiend/Half-Celestial.)

3) That Warlock archetype... what about the later bloodline powers? Does the sorcerer get those as normal? It almost sounds like Warlock should be its own bloodline, not an archetype. Maybe a Startouched bloodline; a sorcerer inheriting power from some pact his ancestors made with some ancient being beyond the stars or something.

Liberty's Edge

The arcane discoveries are special discoveries available to a wizard (per Ultimate Magic) instead of bonus feats every fifth level. Empower Dragon ritual would be available at 5th level, but would not be available at 1st.

As for the Warlock, the other sorcerer bloodlines are the same as normal, so you could have an Abyssal Warlock, an Infernal Warlock, or any other number of bloodlines that would fit the character.

I am wondering if having a pseudodragon at 1st level (unmodified) is still too powerful, even with the costs associated with it, but I wanted to introduce a draconic familiar-like power to wizards from level 1. This seemed the best way to do it. Perhaps the draconic ascendant also loses the scribe scroll feat at 1st level. But that might change the traditional trope that wizards currently are in.

Liberty's Edge

Note, also, that the Empower Dragon arcane discovery is not really needed for this archetype. It's just an extra one added in there for those draconic ascendants who want to give their pseudodragon a little boost. A different arcane discovery (such as the ones from Ultimate Magic) can be selected instead. The other three shown here are also (optional), but even if they are optional, they do follow a certain order.

It is entirely possible for a draconic ascendant to keep a pseudodragon familiar for most of his career and take other types of arcane discoveries.


Should be in Homebrew...

The warlock gets a hex...then can just take Extra Hex as a feat to get as many hexes as they want, right?

It's also really weird that the hexes still use Int for their DC, but I could see that as a balancing factor.

Liberty's Edge

Oh, there's a Homebrew Section? I missed it. Sorry. Can TPTB please move?

Yeah, I was thinking of changing it to Charisma, but I don't want the Sorcerer to outhex the Witch.

Liberty's Edge

Anyone have better ideas for the Chivalrous Knight archetype capstone ability?

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Quote:
At 3rd level, the Warlock adds bane to his list of spells known as a 2nd-level spell. At 5th level, he adds contagion as a 3rd-level spell. This ability replaces the bloodline spells gained at 3rd and 5th level respectively.

Sorcerers can't cast 2nd-level spells at 3rd level, nor 3rd-level spells at 5th level -- you want to check those numbers, I think. That said, I like these archetypes, they're neat. I don't have a flood of feedback ATM, but I might check in on this thread again in a bit.

Liberty's Edge

Flak wrote:
Quote:
At 3rd level, the Warlock adds bane to his list of spells known as a 2nd-level spell. At 5th level, he adds contagion as a 3rd-level spell. This ability replaces the bloodline spells gained at 3rd and 5th level respectively.
Sorcerers can't cast 2nd-level spells at 3rd level, nor 3rd-level spells at 5th level -- you want to check those numbers, I think. That said, I like these archetypes, they're neat. I don't have a flood of feedback ATM, but I might check in on this thread again in a bit.

Huh, you're right. I had based the Warlock on Paizo's Razmiran Priest sorcerer archetype, and just copied the numbers over. But they're wrong. :(

How about:

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Quote:
At 3rd level, the Warlock adds bane to his list of spells known as a 1st-level spell. At 5th level, he adds doom as a 2nd-level spell. This ability replaces the bloodline spells gained at 3rd and 5th level respectively.

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The other option is:

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Quote:
At 3rd level, the Warlock adds bane to his list of spells known as a 1st-level spell. At 7th level, he adds contagion as a 3rd-level spell. This ability replaces the bloodline spells gained at 3rd and 7th level respectively.

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Liberty's Edge

Here is a possibility for the chivalrous knight capstone ability.

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Noble Champion (Su) At 20th level, a chivalrous knight is so resolved in his tasks that he inspires others who witness his devotion. The knight and all allies within 30 feet receive a +4 morale bonus on saves against mind-affecting spells and effects, and any fear effects targeting the knight or his allies are reduced by one step (shaken has no effect, frightened becomes shaken, and panicked becomes frightened). Further, the knight's reputation increases the chivalrous knight's Leadership score (if any) by +2. The knight must be clearly visible and distinguishable for this effect to manifest. The bonuses do not apply when the chivalrous knight is dazed, helpless, staggered, stunned, or unconscious. This ability replaces weapon mastery.

If a chivalrous knight of 20th level (or higher) should ever break the code of chivalry, he loses all the benefits of the noble champion class ability in addition to becoming shaken. The chivalrous knight can attempt to atone for his misdeeds by a miracle spell cast by a lawful good cleric, but his Leadership score (if any) will still suffer a -4 penalty instead of the +4 bonus the chivalrous knight had before.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Either of the new bonus spell propositions works, really. You could even do all three of them (bane @3rd, doom @5th, contagion @7th).

As for the chivalrous knight capstone ability, I know that weapon mastery isn't the most exciting capstone in the world, but it's still a lot better than noble champion. MAAAYBE if you're playing with a GM who allows leadership, then the +2 matters—I don't know how significant it is.

But the 2nd half of the capstone is "if you break your code of conduct at 20th level, it sucks way more than if you break it at 19th level."

I think I would multiclass out of fighter!


That's not the way to balance the hexes. As written, the DC will always be 10,making them useless for offensive use. You are essentially giving them something that's cool, but not the means to use it.

I would try again on that one. I don't mean to be a jerk, but writing on the phone begets terseness.

Liberty's Edge

Well, I don't want to completely replace the Warlock sorcerer's original spell list, but two would probably be alright.

Okay, so that capstone ability doesn't work for the Chivalrous knight. I was trying to compel the idea that a noble champion has a lot more people looking up to him now, expecting him to always do the right thing. I think I will keep the title of the class ability, but it obviously needs work.

I'll look at the witch's hexes and see what I can do to improve the situation.

How about:

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Quote:


Ritual Knowledge (Ex)
At 1st level, the warlock knows a hex, which is similar to the witch's hex, except the save to resist the hex is equal to 10 + 1/2 the warlock's level + Charisma modifier. All other hex variables that would normally rely on the witch's Intelligence modifier instead rely on the warlock's Charisma modifier. This replaces the warlock's 1st level bloodline power.

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(or words to that effect)

Liberty's Edge

Here's another archetype I'm working on. It's pretty rough because I was half asleep as I was writing it, but it fits into my home brew campaign (and maybe it will fit into yours too).

Astrologer (Wizard archetype).

Starfire (Su): At 1st level, an astrologer can summon starfire from the heavens a number of times per day equal to her class level + her Intelligence modifier. Summoning starfire requires a standard action that promotes an attack of opportunity. Starfire is a ranged touch attack with a 30 ft. range that inflicts 1d8 force damage +additional damage equal to the astrologer's intelligence modifier. This damage increases by 1d8 points at every odd-numbered astrologer level (bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit). This ability replaces arcane bond.
Signs in the Heavens (Ex): An astrologer records her spells in the astrological signs and portents instead of in a normal spellbook. An astrologer must study the night sky each night to prepare her spells. She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in astrological signs, except for read magic, which all astrologers can prepare from memory. This ability replaces the wizard's need for a spellbook, but functions in the same exact way, with a few exceptions.
First, if the sky at night is overcast, or the astrologer is prevented from studying the night sky, she cannot memorize spells. With an astronomical telescope and an astrolabe, preparing spells only takes 30 minutes, or half of the normal time that a proportion would take to prepare.
School of Stars: The strange rituals needed to read and be inspired by distant stars and signs in the heavens limit a wizard's ability to unlock other arcane mysteries. At 1st level, an astrologer forsakes four schools of magic. Once chosen, these opposition schools cannot be changed. An astrologer who prepares spells from his opposition school must use two spell slots of that level to prepare the spell. In addition, an astrologer takes a -4 penalty on any skill checks made when crafting a magic item that has a spell from one of his opposition schools as a prerequisite. This ability replaces arcane school.
Encode Sky Chart: An astrologer can craft magic scrolls by encoding sky charts, which only an astrologer can read correctly. These are usually far more precise than regular spell scrolls, so any astrologer can read a sky chart. This augments the wizard's scribe scroll ability. A non-astrologer wizard can attempt to decipher a sky chart with a Knowledge (planes) or Knowledge (nature) skill check instead of Spellcraft. A read magic spell allows the non-astrologer wizard to decipher the sky chart as normal.
Arcane Discoveries: The following arcane discoveries are only available to astrologers: Greater Conjunction, Signs and Wonders, Fate's Hand, Blessing of the Stars

More about the Arcane Discoveries later.


Starfire is extremely, extremely good. Except for that 30' thing, but that doesn't make up for it.

Signs in the Heavens is...weird. I don't like it is both too good (no spellbook!) and too bad (waaaay to GM dependent).

Tacking on more and more prohibited schools isn't a good idea, IMO. The advice I've been given is to make the abilities balanced, rather than use drawbacks. Drawbacks can be mitigated.

Liberty's Edge

I based starfire ability on the arcane bomber's bomb ability, but I felt that instead of having it be a splash weapon, just increase the damage and only affect one creature. I also felt that using force would make the attack weaker, as there are more spells and abilities that reduce force damage. However, if that's part of the problem, we could probably change it to fire or replace it with an ability like minute meteors, and reduce the damage, even though that is a wider attack, it allows for a reflex save (which I wanted starfire to have anyway).

As for Signs in the Heavens, I did wonder if removing the wizard's spellbook changed his powers somewhat? He still records spells, and prepares them, but relies on a different device. Would you feel better if the astrologer required an orrery or some other device to record and memorize spells. Perhaps he can have some benefit from studying them from the night sky. (prepares spells as one level higher with astrolabe, astronomical telescope, and orrery)

I'm all for balance, but sometimes the story must go on whether or not the rules are completely balanced. Dreams, stories, and fictional histories rely on it. :P


Force is the strongest "typed" damage in the game :) Nothing really resists it. Something similar to minute meteors could work swimmingly.

I quite like the idea of an orrery or astrolabe for spells. A wizard haunched over candle light, entranced by the precise mathematical motion before him.

Liberty's Edge

Hmmm, how about this.

Starfire (Su) At 1st level, an astrologer can summon starfire from the heavens a number of times per day equal to her class level + her Intelligence modifier. Summoning starfire requires a standard action that promotes an attack of opportunity. Starfire falls in a 5-foot column, 30 feet high, within a range of 30 feet, and deals 1d4 fire damage+1d4 cold damage+additional force damage equal to the astrologer's Intelligence modifier. This damage increases by 1d4 fire or 1d4 cold (the astrologer's choice) every odd-numbered astrologer level. A Reflex save negates this damage. The save DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 the astrologer level + the astrologer's Intelligence modifier. This ability replaces arcane bond.
Special Uses of Starfire (Su) (And for that matter, couldn't minute meteors be used the same way?) Because starfire is used in a location instead of against a particular creature it can be summoned in an area overlapping two spaces, or four spaces (wherever a 5-foot column would fit). In these cases, the damage is divided equally among any creatures that would be affected. Each creature is allowed a Reflex save to negate damage.
Signs in the Heavens (Ex) An astrologer records her spells in the astrological signs and portents instead of in a normal spellbook, and requires an orrery to record and prepare spells. She cannot prepare any spell not recorded through the orrery, except for read magic which all astrologers can prepare from memory. This ability replaces the astronomer's need for a spellbook.
Jewels of the Night (Ex) When an astrologer prepares spells outdoors at night, with astronomical telescope, astrolabe, and orrery, the astrologer prepares spells as though she were a level higher. Astronomical telescope runs about 1000 gp, astrolabe and orrery are probably pretty expensive too. All of an astrologer's equipment is relatively valuable, easy to carry (except for an orrery), and fragile. A traveling orrery is encased in a heavy sphere of crystal to keep its mechanisms unaffected by rough activity (1000 gp).
School of Stars: The strange rituals needed to read and be inspired by distant stars and signs in the heavens limit a wizard's ability to unlock other arcane mysteries. At 1st level, an astrologer forsakes four schools of magic. Once chosen, these opposition schools cannot be changed. An astrologer who prepares spells from his opposition school must use two spell slots of that level to prepare the spell. In addition, an astrologer takes a -4 penalty on any skill checks made when crafting a magic item that has a spell from one of his opposition schools as a prerequisite. This ability replaces arcane school.
Encode Sky Chart: An astrologer can craft magic scrolls by encoding sky charts, which only an astrologer can read correctly. These are usually far more precise than regular spell scrolls, so any astrologer can read a sky chart. This augments the wizard's scribe scroll ability. A non-astrologer wizard can attempt to decipher a sky chart with a Knowledge (planes) or Knowledge (nature) skill check instead of Spellcraft. A read magic spell allows the non-astrologer wizard to decipher the sky chart as normal.
Arcane Discoveries: The following arcane discoveries are only available to astrologers: Greater Conjunction, Signs and Wonders, Fate's Hand, Blessing of the Stars

Liberty's Edge

These are very rough! I might need some help on these. I know the flavor, I just need to make it fit the crunch.

Greater Conjunction (Arcane Discovery)
The stars above have aligned in your favor, and as a result, your ability to summon starfire is empowered.
Benefit: After spending at least an hour outdoors at night meditating, the astrologer's starfire is empowered in one of the following ways for the next 24 hours. Each night an astrologer searches for conjunctions, she must select a different empowerment from the previous two.


  • An additional three uses of starfire that day.
  • The force damage from starfire is increased by +3 that day.
  • For three times that day, Starfire takes the shape of a 10 foot column, 50 feet high, within 30 feet.
  • A single use of Starfire, that day, has a 100 ft height.

Signs and Wonders (Arcane Discovery)
As you meditate on the night sky before preparing spells, signs and wonders augment your spell knowledge.
Benefit: After spending at least an hour outdoors at night meditating, an astrologer can observe different signs and wonders that have some influence on her preparation ritual. Each time this meditation is performed before preparing spells, roll on the following table. Signs and Wonders can grant additional spells beyond an astrologer's normal daily allotment. Cantrips are never affected by this discovery.

1d10--Event-----------Benefit
1--------Comet-----------Prepare an extra spell of your highest level.
2-3------Crescent Moon---Prepare an opposition school spell as a normal spell.
4--------Meteor Shower---Instead of preparing a spell of level 2 or higher, prepare two spells of the next lower level.
5-6------Full Moon-------Prepare an extra spell of your second highest level.
7--------Aurora Borealis-Prepare two extra spells of your second highest level.
8-9------Lunar Eclipse---Prepare an extra spell of your lowest level.
10-------Black Hole------Lose one spell from the spells recorded in your orrery.

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Fate's Hand (Arcane Discovery)
You have learned to read the future in the stars.
Benefit: While you are preparing your spells you gain insight into an event that will happen in the next 24 hours. Once, in that time period, you can reroll any attack roll, skill check, or saving throw a single time, before you know if the first roll is a success or failure, representing temporal knowledge intervening. You must accept the second roll, even if it is lower. You can select this arcane discovery more than once. Each time it is selected, you gain insight into further moments of time, allowing you to make one additional reroll in the same 24 hour period.

Blessing of the Stars (Arcane Discovery)
You have learned to heal yourself by the power of starlight.
Benefit: Once per day, while outdoors at night, when you have half your total hit points or fewer, you may heal yourself of an amount of damage equal to 1d8 plus your total Hit Dice as a move action. This is a supernatural ability. You can select this arcane discovery more than once. Each time it is selected, you can heal yourself one additional time per day.


It's really interesting, but isn't this what the Cavelier was supposed to be?

Liberty's Edge

I'm assuming you're referring to the Chivalrous Knight, and I would have to say while the Cavalier has similar abilities, his mount ability and dependence on mounted combat makes him ineffective in a dungeon scenario. Also, I do not think there is a reputation mechanic for the cavalier, while I hope I have introduced some for the Chivalrous Knight.

Also, Code of Chivalry is borrowed from the Order of the Sword for the Cavalier, but the attack restrictions were freshly introduced. A cavalier has no such compulsions to fight only in honorable combat.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Quote:
I do not think there is a reputation mechanic for the cavalier

This reminded me!

You know all those bard archetypes who become famous and can gather crowds and such?

I made a cavalier/bard crossover once upon a time. The knight errant trades mount, tactician, and all the charging abilities for more emphasis on knightdom, fame, righteousness, etc. He doesn't interact with Leadership (which most people don't play with anyway), but eh. Food for thought?


stardust wrote:
I'm assuming you're referring to the Chivalrous Knight, and I would have to say while the Cavalier has similar abilities, his mount ability and dependence on mounted combat makes him ineffective in a dungeon scenario. Also, I do not think there is a reputation mechanic for the cavalier, while I hope I have introduced some for the Chivalrous Knight.

You miss my point, I'm saying that this might work better as a cavalier archetype, rather than a fighter archetype.

Liberty's Edge

Hmmm, well, the thing about that is, most of the cavalier archetypes have the mount ability, or a bond with some item or another (musket, banner), and I don't see the chivalrous knight as having a bond with any particular item. He is bonded more to his ideals than to a mount, musket, or banner. I think it's possible to introduce a cavalier archetype that changes that rule, but I think that detracts too much from the cavalier's unique class abilities.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it feels like the cavalier's class abilities rely on the mount and/or banner bond. A fighter doesn't have to bond with anything to be able to use it effectively. Granted his powers are not as powerful as a cavalier's, but the figher is a more rounded individual as a result.

That being said, it might be entirely possible to craft a Knight Errant class archetype for the cavalier that would be compatible with and similar to the Chivalrous Knight class archetype for the fighter.

Liberty's Edge

Okay, I've come up with another capstone ability for the chivalrous knight.

Inspiring Mastery (Ex) At 20th level, a chivalrous knight chooses one weapon. He cannot be disarmed while wielding this type of weapon and also gains a +2 morale bonus to confirm critical threats while wielding it. Further, any allies within 30 feet that can see the chivalrous knight are inspired by his feats of strength and courage. While they wield the same type of weapon, they also cannot be disarmed and gain a +2 morale bonus to confirm critical threats. Allies receive no benefit if the chivalrous knight is dazed, helpless, staggered, stunned, or unconscious. This ability replaces weapon mastery.


stardust wrote:

Hmmm, well, the thing about that is, most of the cavalier archetypes have the mount ability, or a bond with some item or another (musket, banner), and I don't see the chivalrous knight as having a bond with any particular item. He is bonded more to his ideals than to a mount, musket, or banner. I think it's possible to introduce a cavalier archetype that changes that rule, but I think that detracts too much from the cavalier's unique class abilities.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it feels like the cavalier's class abilities rely on the mount and/or banner bond. A fighter doesn't have to bond with anything to be able to use it effectively. Granted his powers are not as powerful as a cavalier's, but the figher is a more rounded individual as a result.

That being said, it might be entirely possible to craft a Knight Errant class archetype for the cavalier that would be compatible with and similar to the Chivalrous Knight class archetype for the fighter.

Then these are the abilities you want to swap out, surely? I do take your point that the fighter makes a more 'universal' template, but the Cavelier's is more thematic.

Liberty's Edge

Marthel Danarus
Male Half-Orc Black Draconic Sorcerer (Warlock) 5
CE Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init -1; Senses darkvision 60 ft, Perception +10 (+2 to find hidden objects, including traps and secret doors),
-----DEFENSE-----
AC 12, touch 9, flat-footed 12 (-1 Dex, +3 natural)
hp 35 (5d6+15), ferocity
Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +7
Resist Acid 5
-----OFFENSE-----
Speed 30 ft
Melee +1 flaming falchion +6 (2d4+4, crit. 18-20/x2) +1d6 fire.
Special Attacks Evil Eye.
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 5th, concentration +9) 6/4/2
2nd (5/day) - burning gaze, darkness, doom
1st (7/day) - bane, hypnotism, obscuring mist, shield, true strike
0 (at will) - acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, mage hand, read magic, resistance
Bloodline Draconic
-----STATISTICS-----
Str 16, Dex 9, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 18
Base Atk +2; CMB +5; CMD 14
Feats Extra Hex, Improved Natural Armor, Ironhide
Skills Bluff +11, Intimidate +11, Perception +10
Languages Common, Draconic, Orc
SQ orc blood, orc ferocity, scavenger, weapon familiarity
Combat Gear potion of cure moderate wounds
Gear flaming falchion +1, cloak of resistance +1
Treasure broach of carnelian (100 gp)
-----FEATS AND SPECIAL ABILITIES-----
Evil Eye (Ex) Marthel can affect an enemy that he can see within 30 feet with his evil eye ability. That enemy then suffers a -2 penalty on one of the following (AC, ability checks, attack rolls, saving throws, or skill checks), lasting 7 rounds. A Will save (DC 15) reduces this to 1 round.
Improved Natural Armor (Feat) Marthel's natural armor is increased by 1.
Iron Hide (Feat) Marthel has a natural armor of +1.
Orc Ferocity (Ex) Once per day, when Marthel is brought below 0 hit points but not killed, he can fight on for one more round as if disabled. At the end of his next turn, unless brought to above 0 hit points, he immediately falls unconscious and begins dying.
Scavenger (Ex) Marthel has a +2 racial bonus to Appraise and Perception checks to locate hidden objects, determine if food is spoiled, and identify a potion by taste.
Swamp Warlock (Sp) Marthel leaves no trail and cannot be tracked in swamp environments. He can walk through mud and even quicksand as if it were normal ground.
Weapon Familiarity (Ex) Marthel is proficient with greataxes and falchions, and treats any weapon with "orc" in its name as a martial weapon.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

An archetype should not be hijacking most of the better mechanics from another class.

And the Draconic Ascendant is just way too good.

The basic wizard school powers all have the common aspect of a single die plus a bonus per level. The Starfire bolt literally blows them all out of the water.

They're well written for archetypes that were built on the design philosophy of "give me what I want".

Liberty's Edge

Starfire is similar to (and less powerful than) the Arcane Bomber archetype for the wizard. Thats actually where I came up with the idea, matched with the Erathian Sorceress flavor (from HOMM II), to create the Astrologer archetype.

So I'm not sure how "give me what I want" it is, but each of the archetypes I've created so far fills a particular niche that my homebrew campaign needed filled.

I will probably have something similar to the Draconic Ascendant, except with an undead companion, as well, but I'm not sure what to call it yet.

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