there are a lot of horror stories about crazy GMs and even crazy players... but what about the boring ones... you know the ones who would rather look at facebook than figure out what to do next and are pretty much only there for rolling dice and casting spells.
I had a group that was captured in something of a slave caravan. the idea was that they would break out at some point and lead a revolt and escape... but they simply refused to use their actual skills to do anything. the entirety of their efforts to escape were to pick the locks which failed (as that was the one option not available because it was too obvious) and I think one guy tried to spam 0 level acid splash in broad daylight but gave up on that when the guards beat him for it.
after that they literally just sat in the box for 3 days (3 game sessions) because there was "no way out and you wont even tell us where we are" (note they never thought to use any knowlage skills, diplomacy or any other tactic to sus out their location other than asking me "where are we?" out of game)
eventually I had to have other NPCs get them out and ask them to help in the escape.
have you ever had a group simply refuse to figure things out? Or is that a result of the GM not guiding them correctly?
the entirety of their efforts to escape were to pick the locks which failed (as that was the one option not available because it was too obvious) and I think one guy tried to spam 0 level acid splash in broad daylight but gave up on that when the guards beat him for it.
after that they literally just sat in the box for 3 days (3 game sessions) because there was "no way out and you wont even tell us where we are" (note they never thought to use any knowlage skills, diplomacy or any other tactic to sus out their location other than asking me "where are we?" out of game)
No comment.
Or is that a result of the GM not guiding them correctly?
No comment.
LOL.
fair enough ^_^
I had a player who wouldn't loot anything killed hords of goblins, drow, animals, thugs, and at one point a few Demon but he didn't loot anything left all that gear behind I asked if he wanted to loot them he said " I didn't think they had anything on them" after that I explained step by step my opinion of what to do after combat.
I wouldn't say he was boring though.
Just thought I would share I know it's not very relevant.
This one player I gamed with only ever played dwarf fighters. He would nod off when it wasn't his turn to act. When it was his turn the GM would nudge him awake, the player would say (no matter what the situation is) "I hit it with my axe" and roll a D20.
For some reason I found him hilarious.
Blue, times like that, you probably need to give them a little push. If the game went three sessions with them doing nothing, they clearly weren't getting it.
In those situations, I usually have the wisest PC make a wisdom check with a ridiculously low DC. I'd then say something along the lines of, "On pondering, you recall that the second shift guard has been more talkative than the others, giving you a better share of rations and in general seeming more sympathetic to your situation. Perhaps you could speak to him diplomatically and see if he has insight into your plight."
Some players just need a little extra hand-holding till they get into the swing of things.
I once had a group of 3 who refused to go out adventuring because it was too dangerous. They did roleplay doing the dishes, though.
HA. hilarious.
@woegman: yea your right. I tried that. I mean dont get me wrong it wasnt 3 days of sitting around the table looking at each other. the slavers were using them in gladiator style fights. but I used a lot of tactics to try and encourage them like....
a semi-friendly guard kept warning them that if they keep winning the gladiatorial combats they would be "sacrifice", the guard seemed saddend by this (would have helped them a little)
almost every night another captive from a nearby cage (and old woman with a bag) would sneak under their cage and talk to them trying to encourage the to fight or find an escape. no one ever wondered how she was getting out of her own cage(she was using the bag of holding trick)
ultimately they were just Hack and Slash players used to doing book campaigns and couldn't really wrap their heads around the freedom and initiative that I expected from them. so that was on the GM.
I'm guessing some variant on getting in the bag, getting the bag thrown out of the cage, then getting the bag open somehow.
What is the bag of holding trick?
It looks like this. Put part of you in the bag. Do something with it. Profit. There's another trick about it that turns it into a campsite that you can use to survive in planar or hostile environments-- drop the bag in a remote place, pin the lip shut and climb inside to sleep. But then it always has the chance for you to be adventure-looted.
There are other variations, but that's the most compact one.
Also sorry for judging the hell out of you earlier Blue, but it sounded like you were withholding information and having one of those staring-contest games that I've heard mentioned so often. For me, hen a PC asks "Where are we" it means you should like let them know what their character would think to try to find out where they are. But it sounds more like they were just extremely inactive players-- not even interacting with the scenery, wondering when you were going to railroad them out of the arena.
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I remember one campaign in which nothing happened. The GM was freeform, with nothing planned, and my character was a shaman who specialized in dream-sending, so I literally spent most of the time asleep. Didn't quite work out. Our other campaigns were just fine, though.
One other time, I was running an organized play game. The group who showed up at my table, though, was one guy who loved the game and wanted to show how cool it was to his friends, who thus were, essentially, a whole party of tagalongs. That by itself wouldn't have been a problem, they were friends, they would have gotten along just fine. However, the adventure as designed was a freeform mystery, and the one gamer in the group, well, was pretty darn oblivious.
The game went like this for the first hour:
GM (me): "You find this clue. What do you do next?"
Friends: Turn to gamer friend, and stare holes into him.
Gamer: "Uh.... what?"
I'm serious about the stares and quotes. Once I realized it wasn't going to work, I made things happen to them, instead of even bothering to lead them by the nose. Then things were okay.
Any game where the DM/GM uses either more powerful setting iconics or his own characters to jump in and save the party or show them up in some other fashion.
@DMcal... um what?
you mean when the players are "saved" by a higher level NPC?
thats a valid GM tactic. it usually is done to give the PCs a more tangible measure of growing in power when they start off weak and eventually surpass those who were clearly stronger.
I once had a group of players who couldn't understand the concept that every single encounter was not designed for them to win.
I had a more powerful group of enemies that were supposed to be reoccurring villains. I dropped several obvious clues that these guys were somewhat more powerful than they (party was level 4 or 5 and the enemies were a level 7 group of 3.5 dragon shamen) even to the point of saying "seriously guys this group is more powerful and will kill you." for whatever reason they absolutely refused to stop fighting the villains and were upset when they died as if I had tricked them into it.
This may not be what you're looking for (it has more to do with a 3.5 update of a particular 1e adventure, and the disparity between the editions, than the players themselves), but here goes:
Many moons ago, I discovered that the Wizards living down by the Coast had decided to revisit a certain adventure I had heard many terrifying, harrowing tales about in my years: The dreaded Tomb of Horrors.
Eager to slake my thirst for death and damnation by raining terror upon poor helpless PCs, I called over all of my adventuring fellows for what was sure the be the deadliest experience of their gaming lives.
Then they all rolled dwarves. Two of them were rogues, one of which was one specialized in finding and disabling traps.
About five minutes into the gaming session, I realized what sets 3.5 apart from 1e/2e: It's not nearly as deadly. In other words, we were playing a kids-gloves version of an adventure whose entire point was to be a deadly meatgrinder.
After four hours of playtime, during which players were nearly bored to death every time they came 'round a corner, we quit and never looked back.
@DMcal... um what?
you mean when the players are "saved" by a higher level NPC?
I agree that it is, and can be a great tactic for DMs and can act as a learning experience for lower level PCs. But what I'm referring to is a GM/DM who NEVER lets the players triumph on their own. I grew so tired of playing in games where just as the players stood on the brink of victory, out of nowhere comes a iconic or DMPC to snatch the glory away. Then the NPC gets a share of the XP and/or the loot. This usually happens when it's one of the DM's characters being used as the NPC.
It quickly becomes pointless and boring to play, because you know that every time, whether the party is winning or not, Superman or Elminster is going to swoop in and finish things off. The DM of the first D&D campaign I ever played in was one of the worst offenders and was, and is today, one of my best friends. At the time, I was so smitten with the game I didn't notice or care. His PC's accompanied us on nearly every adventure. He had a house rule that no matter how many players fought the monster, the one that did the killing blow would get ALL the XP for the encounter. It became routine that one of his PC's, who was always along with the party, would be this character. And, being the highest level in the party, his PC would get first pick of the treasure.
After I learned a bit more and had some experience with other GMs under my belt, I realized that, while the adventures were often quite exciting, at the end we'd get the short end of things. When you can predict the outcome of every combat encounter due to the GM's generous gift of throwing his/her own characters into the game it quickly loses its luster and becomes boring as hell.
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I've never had a group that was consistently boring. I have had players that have had moments where I could scream for their pussyfooting around an adventure.
I've had moments where players seem to wait for them to be led by the hand rather than set out to solve an issue themselves--even regardless of my saying OOC "Well, why don't guys do x" or "An x check would get you some more information," with a "no, that's too (whatever reason I can't understand)."
My least favorite excuse is "that's too risky." I do believe some players think playing a fantasy adventure roleplaying game is meant to involve them sitting around the table doing absolutely nothing while the GM says, "Congratulations, you win! Here is your treasure which you did absolutely nothing to work for." (Which someday, I may just up and DO if players ever throw that at me again, followed by promptly ending the campaign.)
Then there's the "let's argue about a plan for 1 hour real time and then pick the first thing we thought of..."
Mmmm.... other moments of boring/frustration....
Player: I search the room. I'm looking at the bookshelf, under the rug, and inside the cabinet--checking for traps first of course.DQ: Okay, make a few Perception checks.
Player: 15 and 27.
DQ: Alright. There's no traps, the book shelf does have a few books of note ((describes them and why they're important)). The cabinet has a masterwork dagger hanging inside it. Otherwise you find nothing of import.
Player: Okay, but what about the potted plant? Did I check the potted plant?
DQ: Uh, there's nothing else in the room.
Player: I want to make a Perception check. 35! I have to have found something, right?
DQ: There is nothing else in the room. You have searched it thoroughly.
Player: What about the cracks in the floors? Can I check the cracks in the floors?
DQ: ...
I also remember one time I spent a good 45 minutes on a sequence in which the characters find an item which is sized and shaped exactly like a niche in the wall. I make this VERY clear. But they keep examining the object and trying to make it activate different abilities or decide who gets to carry it or what. (My mistake was giving it certain magical abilities, but it needed them for some plot and mechanical issues)
At one point one of the players actually puts the object IN the wall, where it's supposed to go. AFTER 45 minutes of debate, which was the boring part. The frustrating part follows:
DQ: It fits neatly into the wall with a resounding click. It instantly begins to glow with a warm light that infuses you all with a sense of well-being and accomplishment. The zombies outside that you had been fighting instantly disintegrate into ash, and the fog around the cemetery disappears. Grass instantly starts to grow green again, and flowers bloom.Player: I take it back out of the niche, to see what happens.
DQ: It is extremely difficult to remove, as if it wants to stay there. (((I think a Strength check was thrown in there somewhere before he removed it, which he did.))) The fog instantly surrounds the landscape and more skeletal hands begin to punch their way out of the graves. You feel a strong sense of foreboding.
Player: I think we better keep this with us.
(I should note the player was playing a lawful good character devoted to the goddess of life.)
In fairness, the other players wanted to hit him too, but still. And if they wanted to keep it, I would have rolled with the consequences and kept going -- but it was the debate that drove me crazy, and the fact that the player's tone of voice wasn't that he was intentionally trying to be selfish or anything, but that he just truly thought that surely leaving the object there was not a good idea.
Note that I really do love my players and generally speaking they are phenomenally smart and fun to play with. But we all have these moments I think.
Worlds Largest Dungeon..............Like the DND version of PItfall.
I once had a DM in college who didn't like to throw us into "combat" so every Thursday night we would rent a room at the local dorm. and roleplay trying to solve mysteries and court intrigue. it went something like this
P1: i think the jester killed the kings donkey
DM:why do you think that
P1 he just looks Shifty and he had the poisoned donkey food in his room
DM: do you wish to tell the king
P1 sure...why not
DM: the king does not believe you, he says you need more proof
P1 like what?...
DM: not going to tell you you have to figure it out...
P1 okay ...
long story short it was the kings nephew dressed as the jester..we had no way of knowing it. stuff liek that we were just supposed to figure it out...
Another time we had a buddy who usually plays the orc. run a post apocalyptic campaign set in our home town. after about 5 hours we had Searched Lowes, and gotten a steel mill to up production about 5%
we couldn't challenge the local gangs because they had guns , and we had sticks and rocks. Never any good plot hooks never any hint in game or out of game. we eventually just gave up and attacked the morotcycle gang and were all slaughtered.
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Anyone familiar with the Traveller trading rules knows what happened next.And if you aren't familiar with the Traveller trading rules? There are thousands of ways to become bored. Since we're talking about a 1980s game, I assume we mean chart hell, but tell us more.
I'd rather spare you the horrors.
Suffice it to say, the game suddenly transforms into an extended version of "Papers and Paychecks", spreadsheets, and eternal battle (fought with slide-rules and calculators) to determine and achieve a positive profit margin...
(I'm also shying away from details 'cause I don't feel like breaking out the old Traveler books and transcribing such horrifying, fun-destroying rules... although, if you enjoy that sort of thing, just go "play Wall Street" with real money and at least get something out it) :)
@blue_the_wolf
I've never been in or ran for an entirely boring group, however I did once play with one guy who kept trying to start up a village or something, he would end up just missing sessions because his character was busy heading back to boring towns to negotiate the settlement of land. Meanwhile the rest of us were dealing with murdering scumbags who ripping the fabric of reality apart while trying to dodge both the mage's guild and the hunter's guild.