Damage and actions in a grapple / Grab ability

[magnuskn]

The whole "how much damage do you inflict in a grapple" section of the rules is unclear on a few questions. I'd like some advice what the correct interpretation is.

First off, the relevant sections:

Grapple: Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).

and

Damage: You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.

( both CRB p. 200 )

and

Grab (Ex): A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

( Bestiary 3, p. 295-296 )

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Now, the section about the monster ability Grab would imply that after making a successful grapple check, you automatically inflict damage and then get to choose what else you want to do that round ( like moving, pinning, etc. ). However, one sentence before the phrase in question, it also says that a successful hold does not deal any extra damage.

What exactly would you think is the correct interpretation? Automatic damage or no damage after the successful grapple check?

[MacGurcules]

magnuskn wrote:

The whole "how much damage do you inflict in a grapple" section of the rules is unclear on a few questions. I'd like some advice what the correct interpretation is.

First off, the relevant sections:

Grapple: Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).

and

Damage: You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.

( both CRB p. 200 )

and

Grab (Ex): A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

( Bestiary 3, p. 295-296 )

---

Now, the section about the monster ability Grab would imply that after making a successful grapple check, you automatically inflict damage and then get to choose what else you want to do that round ( like moving, pinning, etc. ). However, one sentence before the phrase in question, it also says that a successful hold does not deal any extra damage.

What exactly would you think is the correct interpretation? Automatic damage or no damage after the successful grapple check?

It's referring to the initial attempt to establish the grapple. The initial grapple attempt that is triggered from Grab, if successful, doesn't deal any additional damage beyond the attack that triggered it. On subsequent rounds, if the grapple holds, you automatically deal the damage for that attack. If the creature also has Constrict, it does Constrict damage upon initially securing the hold as well as on subsequent rounds.

So if you've got a creature with Grab and Constrict, it would go something like this:
Creature rolls to attack with natural weapon with the Grab feature.
Creature hits --> deal damage for the attack as normal then roll for grapple attempt
Grapple succeeds --> creature automatically deals Constrict damage.

On subsequent rounds, the creature would spend a standard action to maintain the grapple at +5. If successful, it would automatically deal the damage of the attack with the Grab feature and the damage listed for the Constrict ability. Then, as part of the successful grapple maintenance action, it could additionally conduct any of the standard grapple events: deal additional damage with a light or natural weapon, reposition the enemy, pin, etc.

[magnuskn]

Allright, that would answer my question, unless anybody comes up with a convincing different interpretation. Basically, you can deal damage twice per round to an enemy ( three times with constrict ). Once when making the grapple check for the round, the second time when then dealing damage as per the option listed in my OP.

[Thyrus Gharvana]

With the Grab ability, to subsequently continue the hold, is the creature taking a -20 to it's C.M.B roll???