Infinite Cantrips?

[_Ozy_]

Crimeo wrote:

Quote:

The FAQ says when you apply metamagic you use the spell level or the slot level, whichever is more disadvantageous as the spell level for the rule consideration at hand.

A choice which makes no difference if the definition of cantrip is "0th ACTUAL level spells"

I can't find the word actual in the definition.

Please don't make things up and pretend that's what the rule says.

[Crimeo]

Quote:

I can't find the word actual in the definition.

Nor can I find the word "adjusted" in the definition, or "current effective".

Quote:

Please don't make things up and pretend that's what the rule says.

Please read the whole thread where I've already said like 2 dozen times that the book heavily implies that, not that it's explicitly written. And/or read the sentence of mine you just quoted, where it says "IF the definition of cantrip is..."

Before accusing people of making things up.

[Mulgar]

omg, everybody go jump over a ten foot pit. What's the DC for that?

Some of the rules arguments are inane, I can't believe I just lost 5 minutes of my life reading this.

Guys, cantrips are spamable, can be used over and over..... sheeesh

and that's wether you RAI or RAW for goodness sake.

[Isonaroc]

Mulgar wrote:

Guys, cantrips are spamable, can be used over and over.....

Unless, of course, you prepare it in a higher spell slot. That's where the debate is.

[_Ozy_]

Crimeo wrote:

Quote:

I can't find the word actual in the definition.

Nor can I find the word "adjusted" in the definition, or "current effective".

You're right, we shouldn't use those either.

We should use spell level and spell slot level as that's what the FAQ deals with, reminding ourselves that when it is to our disadvantage:

Quote:

The spell counts as the level of the spell slot necessary to cast it.

Since it is spell level we are concerned with, the FAQ makes it clear that the spell level for the metamagic cantrip in this case is level 4. Thus, it is not a cantrip.

A cantrip is a 0th level spell. (definition)

When you apply metamagic to a cantrip, you get a 4th level spell (FAQ)

Therefore, a metamagic 'cantrip' does not qualify as a cantrip.

[Crimeo]

Quote:

We should use [ADJUSTED] spell level

Fixed that for you. Because what you go on to describe, while simply neglecting to use the actual name for it as if that changes the argument, is the adjusted spell level. Which was an arbitrary choice at best (or worse IMO since I see implications throughout the book otherwise, but whatever)

Sort of like mom saying "Okay, Alex, Jane, who broke the cookie jar?" "Oh well somebody certainly did, Mom." "Ah well then I'll go about punishing somebody then." STORY RESOLVED! ROLL CREDITS! Maybe nobody will notice.

Quote:

the FAQ makes it clear that the spell level for the metamagic cantrip in this case is level 4.

Which tells us nothing about whether it's a cantrip until we establish whether the cantrip definition is referring to what you just referred to (which is the adjusted level) or to the other choice (the original level).

You know, that detail which the FAQ you're referring to itself makes extremely clear is a distinction that exists and matters?