Goblin Squad Member
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Perhaps an Auction House system would be Hex-based only?
Auctions put up in the Main City are available for people within that city to bid on within five minutes.
Auctions put up in the Main City are available for people in one of the 'Satelite' settlements or outposts to bid on, but it takes 30 minutes and they either have to fetch the item themselves or pay somebody to pick it up for them.
People outside of that Hex hear about the Auction 24 hours later, and must make the trek into the Hex to make their bid and pick up the item, assuming they can win.
And here is something that I'm fairly sure I'll get beaten for....
ALL AUCTIONS REQUIRE A FULL 48-72 HOURS BEFORE THEY CAN BE PICKED UP.
Sellers can 'waive' this if they desire to, but they will take an increased hit from the Auction House's 'cut' of the final price.
Now, the reason I suggest this is we will have banditry going on, and it would SUCK to trudge back to town, all your goods lost or stolen, hit up the AH to see if you can replenish your goods so your 'business' doesn't fail ... and there's this guy nobody has ever heard from, selling 'Sacks of Grain' with the tag 'Farmer John' on it.
You're Farmer John! Son of a .... those are your sacks of Grain!
Products should list their origin, for several reasons (such as avoiding a player or Chapter who is known for antics in game, and starving them of trade is a good way to convince them to leave, or in contrast, supporting a newer player or one who is down on their luck!) but in this case, let's assume that you cannot sell 'stolen' goods in the Hex they were created or harvested from without a 'stolen' flag coming up.
Obvious ways to get around this are trading to another player and getting them to sell it?
No, with the 'tag' in play, the item can't be sold in this particular Hex without the seller being fingered for it.
This encourages thieves to find alternative markets for their goods, meaning long, dangerous trips through Wild Hexes to reach other Settled Hexes to pawn their perfidious produce, or ... they work the items themselves.
The 'Sacks of Grain' example? Turn the grain into Wheat and then bread. Bang, it's lost the tag because it is no longer 'recogniseable' as 'Grain', it's been altered by the crafting changes into something else entirely.
Stole some jewellery? Rip the stones out, smelt the metal down into ingots, reforge it into jewellery and recut/reset the stones, bang, new piece of jewellery.
'Recieved' some Spellbooks? .... Yeah, you're outta luck there, unless you know somebody with excellent forgery skills who can turn the Spellbook into a 'freed' item that you can then take and study as your own.
'Acquired' some weapons and armor from the Lord's armory? Again, break it down into component pieces and reforge into what you want.
Now there should be a loss of materials involved in both the 'breaking down' and 're-creating' of them items, but in a pinch, this allows the Bandits/Thieves to take a good chunk of value from an item, 'change it' so that the 'Stolen Tag' no longer applies, and either find a new buyer or, if they are feeling particularly cruel, get a middle-man to sell it back to the offended party with a generous mark-up...
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Goblin Squad Member
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ALL AUCTIONS REQUIRE A FULL 48-72 HOURS BEFORE THEY CAN BE PICKED UP.
No thank you. If I must bid on an item, wait 24-48 hours for the auction to end, then 48-72 to get the item? Even a "buy now" and wait 48-72 hours to pick up will not work.
When my party is waiting on me to grab those AH potions so we can hit that dungeon, I doubt that they will enjoy waiting 48-72 hours.
Any delay longer than 30 min would be too inconvenient.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@HalfOrc
Tagging resources would be impractical because it would interfere with their being stacked in a inventory.
Also, you may see your tagged resources in the market, but how many hands has it gone through before it got there?
If I steal your sword and break it down into its components, will those components still have your tag?
What I am hoping for is that bandits don't have to take your stolen resources to market to begin with. First, that does not remove the product from the market place, which does not have the economic impact that the Dev Blog says it should. Secondly, it turns the bandit into a merchant, which is something I have no desire to do.
I would prefer that stolen resources be consumed by the bandits in the form of maintanence costs for our hideouts or to be converted directly into their coin value, potentially as a function of the hideout.
This last idea would be the gold faucet for bandits, much in the way that PvE escalations will be the gold faucet for other professions.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What I am hoping for is that bandits don't have to take your stolen resources to market to begin with. First, that does not remove the product from the market place, which does not have the economic impact that the Dev Blog says it should. Secondly, it turns the bandit into a merchant, which is something I have no desire to do.
I would prefer that stolen resources be consumed by the bandits in the form of maintanence costs for our hideouts or to be converted directly into their coin value, potentially as a function of the hideout.
This last idea would be the gold faucet for bandits, much in the way that PvE escalations will be the gold faucet for other professions.
This is a dream. The game mechanics should definately NOT reward bandits even further by converting their looted goods directly into gold. Some poor sap will have to be the fence. You can't magically turn a wagon load of grain into a pile of gold. You or one of your co-conspirators will have to get their hands dirty in the marketplace. Sorry Bludd. You might be able to loot and pillage, but you'll be stuck with a pile of loot you have to manage if that's the life you want to lead.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well actually, he or she would not be a poor sap, but more likely a fairly wealthy one. Imagine, we steal it, trade it to you for less than market value, then you sell it for a profit. If we can't find merchants willing to fence our stolen goods, then we will use alts to do the same.
The loss for one, becomes the gain for at least two others.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What I am hoping for is that bandits don't have to take your stolen resources to market to begin with. First, that does not remove the product from the market place, which does not have the economic impact that the Dev Blog says it should. Secondly, it turns the bandit into a merchant, which is something I have no desire to do.
I would prefer that stolen resources be consumed by the bandits in the form of maintanence costs for our hideouts or to be converted directly into their coin value, potentially as a function of the hideout.
This last idea would be the gold faucet for bandits, much in the way that PvE escalations will be the gold faucet for other professions.
I think that the economic impact will mostly be derived from the goods that end up being destroyed. The looted stuff will have to be used by the bandit (but not magically absorbed as hideout maintenance) or liquidated through transactions, like everyone else has to. How would the game determine a price for gold conversion? Fair is fair, a crafter should get to convert his goods to gold instead of the hassle of selling?
You don't have to be a merchant. There will be plenty of "fences" willing to take your goods at a discount that they can make a profit from too. You will just have to hit more gatherers and caravans to make up the difference.
All of this is not too well defined yet, so again, we are really just speculating.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not magical absorption as hideout maintanence but material absorption. If a hideout takes 50 cords of wood to make or repair, then we could set out specifically to steal from lumber operations in order to fill that need.
This type of consumption truly does take the resource out if the market place, leaving what does make it to market a higher valued item.
I never quite understood the, "and th rest will be destroyed", as it relates to what can be stolen.
If there is a lumber camp, and they have 200 cords of lumber. We raid them, kill them and hav a means to carry way all 200 cords of wood. What is being destroyed, and more importantly, why is it being destroyed?
I can understand if we leave it behind, because we can't carry it off. But, it hound remain there for a few minutes, just like a husk (corpse), to be looted by a passerby or the original gatherer if he returns.
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It has been stated if memory serves that when you loot a player you do not get all unthreaded items merely a portion of them. I presume the same holds true if you are looting a caravan or settlement. The logic I assume being that the act of attacking somehow destroys the remainder by inadvertent damage caused by the attack
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bluddwolf
Not sure about "lumber camps" and other fixed stockpiles. There really has been little info released about that. You are right that I was assuming that you meant caravans and corpses only, which have had some things written about them. My bad.
I am all for bandits or anyone using goods for their intended purpose. I do see a storage problem when you start stockpiling goods to be used at a future time. I hope that storage will be generous and/or cheap. Merchants love storage. =D
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Goblin Squad Member
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@HalfOrc
Tagging resources would be impractical because it would interfere with their being stacked in a inventory.
They managed this quite well in Skyrim.
Also, you may see your tagged resources in the market, but how many hands has it gone through before it got there?
If I steal your sword and break it down into its components, will those components still have your tag?
To the first part, that's not something we can do much about, but it also prevents thieves from handballing items to a friend's account and getting away scott free. Within the Hex the item was made, or perhaps a better method would be 'reported stolen', the item will be perma-flagged as 'hot goods', meaning that depending upon the laws of said hex, Possession of the item could mean punitive measures, even if you bought it innocently.
And no, if you re-read my post, 'breaking down' and item 'removes' the 'stolen' tag. Effectively it means that if you break an item down into it's constituent components, then while you're losing some wealth/materials due to the process, you're also no longer in possession of 'Stolen Goods', and all the shenanigans that entails.
What I am hoping for is that bandits don't have to take your stolen resources to market to begin with. First, that does not remove the product from the market place, which does not have the economic impact that the Dev Blog says it should. Secondly, it turns the bandit into a merchant, which is something I have no desire to do.
Again, re-read my post. Once the item is broken down into components, those components can then be turned into whatever you may be able to make.
Also,'Fences' could be valuable go-betweens for Bandit 'Chapters' who need trustworthy folks to go into town and turn their 'products' into cold hard cash, or bartered for items that their Chapter may not be able to produce due to a lack of settlements or other reasons.
I would prefer that stolen resources be consumed by the bandits in the form of maintanence costs for our hideouts or to be converted directly into their coin value, potentially as a function of the hideout.
This last idea would be the gold faucet for bandits, much in the way that PvE escalations will be the gold faucet for other professions.
This I have no disagreement with. Being able to turn around and use supplies to directly repair your Settlement or 'Outpost' (as I believe the 'hidden' camps in the Hexes are called?) would be useful for Bandit Chapters who may or may not be able to offer themselves all the benefits that a Settlement might offer their counterparts.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@HalfOrc
I hate having my stuff looted/robbed.
I would hate seeing it for sale in the market right as I am trying to get re geared. Or would I? Getting robbed/looted is just part of PVP. I might think of it as unfortunate and be thrilled to see my gear for sale so I can buy some or all of it back. As thrilled as I can be in those circumstances, that is.
No. There should be no penalties for receiving "looted goods". They were looted after combat, not "stolen". PVP and loss are part of what we need to accept when we leave protected hexes. It is a nasty, scary, dangerous, exciting world isn't it?
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I'd prefer to see a series of buy and sell orders rather than auction-type transactions. Items rare enough to use an auction to determine market value are special enough that a more direct marketing system would be better: the seller contacts potential buyers and lets them know that the highest offer buys the item; or a buyer contacts lots of suppliers and asks them to bid on a large delivery.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I didn't say PvP, I said 'Stolen'. Goods taken through PvP are a game mechanic to help encourage item production, in addition to item decay.
Stand and Deliver 'exploits', where the merchant is given a 'Stand and Deliver' interface, but while he's doing that, the other Bandits loot his wagon anyways. He gets out of the Stand and Deliver interface to deal with them, he has 'rejected' the offer and the bandits kill him anyways.
Thieves will target player houses, farms and businesses during low-population times, and the Stolen Tag ensures that they can't just trade their loot to a friend, then trade it back again and hey presto, the item is no longer red-flagged. They have to 'disguise' the item to resell it, or break it down and reforge it themselves.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I didn't say PvP, I said 'Stolen'. Goods taken through PvP are a game mechanic to help encourage item production, in addition to item decay.
Stand and Deliver 'exploits', where the merchant is given a 'Stand and Deliver' interface, but while he's doing that, the other Bandits loot his wagon anyways. He gets out of the Stand and Deliver interface to deal with them, he has 'rejected' the offer and the bandits kill him anyways.
Thieves will target player houses, farms and businesses during low-population times, and the Stolen Tag ensures that they can't just trade their loot to a friend, then trade it back again and hey presto, the item is no longer red-flagged. They have to 'disguise' the item to resell it, or break it down and reforge it themselves.
I believe that such exploits would be quickly punished if reported.
What "player" houses, farms, and busnesses are you referring too? What settlement, for surely they would be in settled hexes, won't have NPC guard forces like marshals to pound LAW BREAKAHS?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Unless the NPC Guards have telepathy and X-Ray vision, so long as you're stealthy about it and don't run around Hulk-busting bank-vaults, I am operating under the assumption that the 'Guards' only turn up for non-consential PvP within specific Hexes, likely the 'starting' zones to ensure people can't be ganked the first time they step out of the spawning zone.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Unless the NPC Guards have telepathy and X-Ray vision, so long as you're stealthy about it and don't run around Hulk-busting bank-vaults, I am operating under the assumption that the 'Guards' only turn up for non-consential PvP within specific Hexes, likely the 'starting' zones to ensure people can't be ganked the first time they step out of the spawning zone.
Well I guess that we will have to see what they have in mind. I am under the impression that when you break the laws in a settlement's hex that you will get the criminal flag and then you will be a target.
Criminal
The character has broken the law of a settlement while inside its boundaries.Each time a character gets the Criminal flag they lose law vs. chaos.
Anyone may kill a Criminal character without fearing reputation or alignment loss.
Criminal is removed once the character has been killed.
The Criminal flag lasts ten minutes unless the character does something to get it again before the duration runs out.
If the character gets the Criminal flag again within the duration of its existing Criminal buff, the count of Criminal increases by 1 and the duration resets and adds ten minutes, up to a maximum of 100 minutes.
If the character gets to Criminal 10 they get a new flag, Brigand, which lasts for 24 hours, and does not disappear on death. It acts the same as Criminal, allowing repeat offenders to be hunted down for longer periods of time.
It only lasts 10 minutes the first time but adds up with each crime. Not healthy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The point of the criminal flag as I see it that it allows settlements to enforce their own laws in their own territory. It is not about GW controlling player behaviour but about giving us (ie settlements) tools to set the rules in the part of the sandbox that we control.
If you (or anyone else) think open pvp should be allowed, you can make a settlement with no laws against murder. While I strongly defend the right to make lawless settlements, I prefer to join one where npc guards will protect me from random attacks in the street. Both have to live with the consequences of their laws (an behaviour).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Stand and Deliver 'exploits', where the merchant is given a 'Stand and Deliver' interface, but while he's doing that, the other Bandits loot his wagon anyways. He gets out of the Stand and Deliver interface to deal with them, he has 'rejected' the offer and the bandits kill him anyways.
I'm not sure where you are getting the impression that someone is vulnerable to a 3rd party attack, during a SAD. Like you, I certainly hope this can not be the case.
One way this could be prevented is to have the SAD negotiations take place in an instanced setting, where no one else can interfere with the two parties.
As for the trade to a friend issue, that is essentially setting up a fence for stolen goods. You are assuming the "friend" will perform this laundering of stolen goods for free.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If I am standing on the road and a merchant passes by and you jump out and SAD him, and he declines, he should show up as flagged to you and you can attack him. But as soon as you do you should appear flagged to me and I can attack you. It doesn't seem to make sense for that encounter to occur in a bubble.
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I have to side with Hardin on this, no bubbles.
Sending a decoy merchant down the road to confirm that the party of disreputable types really are bandits while at the same time moving into a good encircling position for the ambush if you are proved right should be a valid tactic
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Goblin Squad Member
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I know I'm a little late to the party, but this confused me:
I would prefer that stolen resources be consumed by the bandits in the form of maintanence costs for our hideouts or to be converted directly into their coin value, potentially as a function of the hideout.
In a player run and driven economy, items don't have set coin values. If you're suggesting it should be based off the local prices in whatever system PCs use to sell their goods, then you're arguing for an NPC that buys at PC rates, and I don't think that's something GW is looking for.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If I am standing on the road and a merchant passes by and you jump out and SAD him, and he declines, he should show up as flagged to you and you can attack him. But as soon as you do you should appear flagged to me and I can attack you. It doesn't seem to make sense for that encounter to occur in a bubble.
No, the SAD transaction should be in a bubble. Otherwise your fear of being attacked while still in that transaction window would be a valid one.
Once the SAD is over and rejected, we would have the attacker flag. The merchant would have the involved flag. You as a third party would have no flag, but if you attack, you would have the attacker flag.
You would only be protected from reputation hit if you were flying the Enforcer flag and we had our Outlaw Flag active. It is unknown if our Outlaw Flag is replaced by the attacker flag or the resolution of a SAD. Also remember, not all bandits will be flying the Outlaw Flag. Some might be flying the Assassin Flag or even the Traveler Flag.
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My understanding is if you have the attacker flag then you can be attacked without alignement or rep loss by anyone. Regardless my point still stands that the whole point of a sandbox is the ability to interact with players in ways they may want or may not want. If it is not that way it is frankly a major flaw. If I am wandering down the road and see a merchant set upon by two footpads I should be at liberty to goto his aid without getting rep or alignement hits.
Just say No to bubbles I say. I have no fear personally of being attacked while the SAD is going on that was another poster
*EDIT*
Just gone back to I shot a man blog and it appears you are correct, I have to stand there and watch you pillage or be a good samaritan and get branded evil and or chaotic and yet people wonder at my dislike for this system
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ZenPagan
You can always throw up a PVP flag and jump on the footpads. Of course, that takes 30 secs so I am not sure there will be much left of the merchant to save by then and you may be the next "fun for 2on1.
Yeah. A little bit off putting. Try to remember that nothing is written in stone yet.
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Goblin Squad Member
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*EDIT*
Just gone back to I shot a man blog and it appears you are correct, I have to stand there and watch you pillage or be a good samaritan and get branded evil and or chaotic and yet people wonder at my dislike for this system
Think of it this way, if you wish: If I am robbing them, at least I am not robbing you. If I am stealing the same resources from them, that you are carrying, then I am helping your price point.
As for the flags. If you wish to be a god Samaritan, fly the enforcer or guardian flags. Hope that I am flying the outlaw flag and or I'm evil. It won't wipe out you CE attack of killing me, but it will mitigate most of it.
Many also over look the possibility that all combat does not have to end in death. You may choose to try to drive off an opponent or even several. You attacks at the very least may redirect their attacks towards you, allowing the intended victim to escape. Or you may beat down the bandits so badly that they look to flee.
@Bringslite
You can only put up a pvp flag if the bandits are flagged otherwise you are out of luck.
It seems to me in the little scene above that the bandits seem to be the only ones not getting any consequence they care about out of this
merchant loses his life and his goods
bandits get a shift to chaotic and or evil which as bluddwolf points out most bandits are going to be around chaotic neutral anyway isnt going to make a lot of difference to them
Good samaritan gets a shift to chaotic and evil which may impact on them heavily dependent upon alignement and "class" they are playing
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can see all 5 sell orders because I am looking at the market in that system and can buy any of the 5 orders. I will then have to travel to pick up the item.
I'm trying to catch up after a vacation, and I've skimmed over most of the thread mostly looking for dev responses, but this jumped out at me and I apologize if someone's already covered this.
Here is where I think we are in terms of a design:
Each Settlement will have a central market. In order to place a buy or sell order on that market you will have to physically visit that market. Information about the buy & sell orders on the market will be visible to you depending on the state of your character's abilities. Everyone will be able to go to a Settlement and see it's market orders, but some characters may be able to get that information at a distance.
Just thought I should highlight that, unlike Eve, you'll have to be present at the Settlement's Market before placing the Buy order.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Think of it this way, if you wish: If I am robbing them, at least I am not robbing you. If I am stealing the same resources from them, that you are carrying, then I am helping your price point.
Just when I start to like some of your ideas, you post things like this?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bringslite
You can only put up a pvp flag if the bandits are flagged otherwise you are out of luck.
It seems to me in the little scene above that the bandits seem to be the only ones not getting any consequence they care about out of this
merchant loses his life and his goods
bandits get a shift to chaotic and or evil which as bluddwolf points out most bandits are going to be around chaotic neutral anyway isnt going to make a lot of difference to them
Good samaritan gets a shift to chaotic and evil which may impact on them heavily dependent upon alignement and "class" they are playing
This whole conversation is built on a flawed premise.
Situation 1) The bandits are unflagged, and attack the caravan to rob it. They are flagged attacker, and you can kill them freely.
Situation 2) The bandits are flying the Outlaw or Assassin flags. They are running a voluntary PVP flag, and you can kill them freely.
Either way, they are flagged, and you do not get the hit for killing them.
As for "You can only put up a pvp flag if the bandits are flagged otherwise you are out of luck." I have no idea what you're claiming here. Your ability to sport a PVP flag is contingent only on your alignment, and currently active flags. If you're suggesting that the PVP flags only protect you under certain circumstances, then that's correct, but you can fly the flag either way.
@Nihimon
I would certainly support that for sell orders. I remain less convinced about buy orders. The reason I say this is I think that being able to place remote buy orders promotes more trade in outlying settlements.
Elaboration coming up
Settlement map
A B C D E
F G H I J
K L M N O
P Q R S T
U V W X y
If I am a merchant sitting in Settlement M and want 1000 hides I have to either
a) visit each settlement separately and place a buy order for 40 hides (assumed each will get more or less the same.
Or
b) just put a single buy order in settlement M
I suspect most will opt for option b.
This means all those wanting to sell to my buy order have to travel to settlement m. If people have to travel there to stand a chance of selling then they will also buy there. This means settlement M soon becomes the market hub with all the settlements being pretty devoid of goods in their markets. Maybe 90% of trade is done in M
If however you just restrict sell orders to only being placeable in the settlement you are at and have the goods then while you will still get a market hub type effect there will still be healthier trade in the non hub settlements. Maybe 60% of trade is now done in M
Now this is only a theory I have but I think it makes a bit of sense but I would say this is more a gut feeling thing than anything so it will be interesting to hear other opinions
@Dario according to the I shot a man in Reno blog the attacker flag does not give you the ability to kill them unless you were the one attacked.
In fact attacking them gets you the attacker flag I went and checked because I was under the impression you could freely attack someone with the attacker flag
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Dario according to the I shot a man in Reno blog the attacker flag does not give you the ability to kill them unless you were the one attacked.
In fact attacking them gets you the attacker flag I went and checked because I was under the impression you could freely attack someone with the attacker flag
Go read the blog again.
Long-Term Flags
We've also added a number of voluntary PvP flags players can activate on themselves so they can engage in PvP within a specific alignment-defined role. The point of these is to encourage players to announce their intent, such as Outlaws intending to rob people, so other players can act accordingly rather than players being unable to be proactive in their own defense.•Long-term PvP flags will be activated through UI on the character window.
•They put an icon next to the character's name that denotes they are PvP active and what flag they have.
•Each of these flags has an alignment requirement to activate.
•Only one of these flags can be active at any time.
•Characters may only activate one of these flags when out of combat. Flagging is a thirty second process, during which there is some manner of visual signifier that they are activating the flag (flashing name, icon, etc.).
•These flags work like other PvP flags: A person targeting the character unprovoked gains the Involved flag and does not lose any reputation or alignment upon fighting/killing the target.
•All of these flags have bonuses that increase (up to a maximum) over time logged in while flagged. Certain actions can reset this bonus without removing the flag (as detailed within the entry). If the player loses/deliberately disables and reactivates the flag, it resets the bonuses to the minimum.
The Attacker flag is irrelevant.
Edit: Unless you're saying someone who has the attacker flag, not one of the voluntary PVP flags. In which case, read the blog again.
Attacker
The character has attacked another character outside of a war situation, and the target character did not have a PvP flag. It denotes which character is the aggressor in PvP combat.•Anyone killing a character with Attacker does not suffer reputation or alignment loss.
•Attacker is removed if the character is killed.
•The Attacker flag lasts for one minute after combat ends.
•If the character gets the Attacker flag he gets an Aggressor buff that lasts for 24 hours that has no effect besides being a counter. Each time he gets Attacker increases the stack of Aggressor by one.
◦If the character gets a high enough stack of Aggressor, determined by his Reputation, he gets the status Murderer, which lasts 24 hours and does not disappear on death. It acts the same as Attacker, allowing repeat offenders to be hunted down for longer periods of time.
The attacker flag isnt a long term PVP flag afaik and the blog says this
•Attacker: A player that attacks another player character that is not fair game gains the Attacker flag. You can also gain this flag by assisting (buffing or healing) a character with the flag. This flag disappears shortly after leaving combat, but allows the victim and his or her allies to fight back without themselves suffering penalties. This flag is applied anywhere in the world
A victim and his allies I take to mean the party he is travelling with not all and sundry in the area.
EDIT
sigh I was looking at an earlier blog apologies yes no alignement or rep for killer someone with attack which was what I first believed
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Goblin Squad Member
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This means settlement M soon becomes the market hub with all the settlements being pretty devoid of goods in their markets.
I expect this is a "feature not a bug", and is intended to create conflict.
If Settlement M is sucking all the air out of the markets in the other Settlements, then I expect Settlement M will be targeted in a variety of ways to even the playing field.
I would call this "content" :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can see all 5 sell orders because I am looking at the market in that system and can buy any of the 5 orders. I will then have to travel to pick up the item.I'm trying to catch up after a vacation, and I've skimmed over most of the thread mostly looking for dev responses, but this jumped out at me and I apologize if someone's already covered this.
Just thought I should highlight that, unlike Eve, you'll have to be present at the Settlement's Market before placing the Buy order.Here is where I think we are in terms of a design:
Each Settlement will have a central market. In order to place a buy or sell order on that market you will have to physically visit that market. Information about the buy & sell orders on the market will be visible to you depending on the state of your character's abilities. Everyone will be able to go to a Settlement and see it's market orders, but some characters may be able to get that information at a distance.
Personally, I find this far more realistic than having an AH in game. Besides, most people will likely IM, PM or otherwise get the word out as to what markets have the best prices for buyers, and what markets have the best prices for sellers. Now you will have to trek to those settlements, just as you would in PFRPG. One of the current campaigns I play in has our party living in a rather remote village at this time, and if we want goods not sold in town, we either have to have a local merchant order them (taking weeks to have it arrive) or ride to the nearest larger town that might have it/them. Once we get there we have to hope they do. I see no reason why this couldn't be simulated in PfO, even with instant messaging. Want the best price either to sell goods or buy them, then you have to go where those prices are located.
As for Nihimon taking a vacation - bad Nihimon ;-P We need your Sage services here!
@Nihimon while market hubs in game are going to arise that much is certain you want to avoid all other markets being starved, especially as the other settlements being starved may well be part of the same kingdom so do not have the option to go to war. Ideally you want goods flowing in from the outskirts with finished goods going the other way to some extent.
I just think too much trade going through the hubs is just as bad as too little. Taking Eve for example the market hubs are where you go if you want to be able to source absolutely anything. However most stations have some of the type of module you may want if not the specific type and you therefore don't have to spend twenty minutes to travel to a hub if all you want is one module.
Remember I am only suggesting it is better to allow buy orders to spread a settlement or two in each direction as the fix not global buy orders.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As for Nihimon taking a vacation - bad Nihimon ;-P We need your Sage services here!
It's nice to be missed :)
I feel bad sometimes for just skimming over some posts, but it's hard enough just trying to keep up with the dev posts. I hope people don't take it personally if they address me in a thread and I don't respond, and I hope everyone would feel free to PM me if you have any questions - I really enjoy doing the research, and I enjoy the feeling I get from helping others too :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ZenPagan, I re-read the whole post from Ryan that I linked above, and he also says:
This is all essentially identical to the EVE system.
So, it's quite possible that I'm reading too much into a casual statement.
However, if I'm right and Ryan meant it literally, then I really don't see a problem. Because it will be dangerous to transport goods to the "hub", there will still be a lot of groups that simply dump their goods in the closest market. This makes room for dedicated transport specialists to go out to the outlying markets, buy goods there, and then transport them to the "hub(s)". This seems like a pretty vibrant economy to me.
@Nihimon
I too am a little unclear what Ryan actually means. If you have to physically need to visit to place the buy order or sell order then it is like an untrained character in Eve
Everyone can see orders in Eve however for the region they are in, though you still need to travel there to sell the goods or pick up ones you buy.
I find it hard to believe that Ryan will limit knowledge of what orders are up in a "region" as that doesn't seem sensible. All that means is someone will set up a website and everyone is going to visit that. No one is going to trek around settlements looking for a good place to sell their stack of hides, at least not if travel is meaningful. Perhaps he will clarify soon
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Goblin Squad Member
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No one is going to trek around settlements looking for a good place to sell their stack of hides, at least not if travel is meaningful. Perhaps he will clarify soon
Although, wandering merchants are as much a part of Fantasy story fodder as "high rep bandits"...and look how much effort GW is putting into making them viable.
Wandering merchants are indeed fantasy story fodder, however they weren't generally wandering at random but knew they would get a good price at the place they were going. Whereas if I have a thousand hides to sell wandering around at random looking for a settlement which has a buy order for a thousand hides at a price I will accept may well be an exercise in frustration. Therefore I stand by my point if the game doesnt provide it there will be websites set up that will. Therefore just allow the knowledge in game
No worries Kit as long as the system works I have no problems and the available to the few thing is exactly why I think you should be able to see orders within a certain area
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Goblin Squad Member
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Reading through it, it sounds like knowledge of prices will be available to those with the skills, but to actually place buy/sell orders you'll have to be physically present. Which makese sense. Is there something I'm missing?
That's the way I read it, too.
There is the potential for wasted time traveling to a market to place your Buy Order only to discover that the goods have already been sold to someone else.