
Lady Melo |
Quick question about fear stacking, unless the spell/power/ability/feat says otherwise does fear stack with the same named ability? Additionally does it stack with other peoples use of a same named ability.
Example, Sorcerer bloodline infernal 1st level power, points out that it doesn't stack with itself, instead adding duration. Most abilities don't point this out.
But what about the enforcer feat, or barbarian rage power intimidation based fear effects.
Additionally what of 3 party members with the enforcer feat?
Also someone who makes 3 attacks in a round with the enforcer feat can they bring an opponent to panicked. (Also does the DC still go up by 5 if its a feat/spell calling a use of intimidation skill as opposed to a direct use of it)?
I don't think I've seen anything about intimidate / other fear effects not stacking by means of same name or ability but just checking since I noticed a lot of the people in my party happened to have fear effects and we want to be fair about this, either that or were going to end up being one scary band of adventurers.
Thank you for whoever knows the answers to all this fear stuff

Lady Melo |
This thread answers your question, I think...
well it covered a little bit, so the only added restriction is demoralize effects add duration as opposed to stack upward, but other then that i can assume it functions as normal, that does help a bit. At least we wont feel so over powered now lol

Archaeik |
Hmmm, Final Embrace Horror
I'm sure the intent wasn't such, but as written, it looks like multiple constricts during the same round stack the fear condition...

Lady Melo |
It also clarifies that it adds duration but also increases DC by +5 for every additional attempt. It quickly becomes impossible to maintain a demoralize effect.
Duration is most likely a non issue, we had no intent of using the intimidate skill directly. More like the enforcer fear, with the {blades of mercy(Sarenrae Trait)} to deal nonlethal at no penalty with +1 damage, the duration with enforcer is the nonlethal damage you dealt.
But would the DC go up by 5 for using spells/feats/abilities that cause demoralize effect, seeing as some of them generate there own DC different from intimidates DC and since the add 5 DC is a function of the try again part of the active use of the skill, as opposed to an expressly called out roll VS feat/spell/ability granted DC. (I understand the enforcer feat itself directly stats an intimidate to demoralize I'm referring others, like making the target demoralized then using antagonize on them)
If so does it apply per person individually? I cant see the DC being 10 higher because the bandits boss forced him to battle the PCs or else (seeing as it fades per hour, assuming he was intimidated twice before)

Akasharose |

The Enforcer Feat DOES use the Intimidation Skill directly as it allows an intimidation check as a Free Action following non-lethal damage.
The +5 DC only applies to each individual "attacker" on successive attempts to Intimidate (Demoralize) checks against an opponent. Meaning 3 different people could each try to Demoralize 1 opponent with NO +5 DC applied, but if any of those 3 tried again within less than an hour of their first attempt, a +5 DC would be applied, and again for another attempt. and so on.
This level of fear does stack, per Core book Rule on page 563 "Becoming even more fearful", so your 3 "Enforcers" could each make a successful attack, followed by Free Action Intimidate checks, and take one opponent to the panicked state, assuming that the opponent didn't move between the attacks and flee out of "melee" range, as Enforcer is for melee attacks I believe.
This fear stacking applies regardless of source, same or different as long as one condition is still active as another is applied, so a Fear Spell cast on a shaken opponent from an Intimidate Check (who makes a saving throw from the fear, but because of it still has "Shaken" applied for 1 round) is instead "Frightened for that 1 round, then returns to the shaken status for the duration of the Intimidate Check, if any duration still remains... BUT no +5 DC would be applied to the Fear spell, as it is not an intimidation check.
Last, I agree with Archaeik, meaning if 2 nagas got a constriction in the same round, that character would be frightened until the beginning of its next turn instead of just shaken.
Hope that clears up your question.

Lady Melo |
The Enforcer Feat DOES use the Intimidation Skill directly as it allows an intimidation check as a Free Action following non-lethal damage.
The +5 DC only applies to each individual "attacker" on successive attempts to Intimidate (Demoralize) checks against an opponent. Meaning 3 different people could each try to Demoralize 1 opponent with NO +5 DC applied, but if any of those 3 tried again within less than an hour of their first attempt, a +5 DC would be applied, and again for another attempt. and so on.
This level of fear does stack, per Core book Rule on page 563 "Becoming even more fearful", so your 3 "Enforcers" could each make a successful attack, followed by Free Action Intimidate checks, and take one opponent to the panicked state, assuming that the opponent didn't move between the attacks and flee out of "melee" range, as Enforcer is for melee attacks I believe.
This fear stacking applies regardless of source, same or different as long as one condition is still active as another is applied, so a Fear Spell cast on a shaken opponent from an Intimidate Check (who makes a saving throw from the fear, but because of it still has "Shaken" applied for 1 round) is instead "Frightened for that 1 round, then returns to the shaken status for the duration of the Intimidate Check, if any duration still remains... BUT no +5 DC would be applied to the Fear spell, as it is not an intimidation check.
Hope that clears up your question.
I already clarified enforcer feat directly states that it is an intimidate to demoralize, I believe from my understanding it was expressly added in errata (see link in second post) that all demoralize effects add duration not stack fear (so no triple threat from enforcers).
My last remaining question was if intimidate DC goes up when spells or feats set new DC's like Antagonize {Feat} although the same formula it stats a new DC, as opposed to things that say "Intimidate to demoralize" regardless of additional outcomes like (Blistering incentive {spell}, Intimidating Glare {power}, Enforcer {feat})
Edit: Actually sorry to continue this but I do have a few more questions lol if you do Antagonize {Feat} someone who is panicked do they obey the feat or the fear effect, also does the try again part of that feat to extend the duration add the +5 DC to it, is it a factor of the feat and not skill so its ignored.

Akasharose |

I already clarified enforcer feat directly states that it is an intimidate to demoralize, I believe from my understanding it was expressly added in errata (see link in second post) that all demoralize effects add duration not stack fear (so no triple threat from enforcers).
Wow my mistake. Thanks for making me see that Errata!
For the rest I think you hit the key in whether or not it is Intimidate to demoralize, or not, such as Antagonize Feat which has no fear effect whatsoever.
My last remaining question was if intimidate DC goes up when spells or feats set new DC's like Antagonize {Feat} although the same formula it stats a new DC, as opposed to things that say "Intimidate to demoralize" regardless of additional outcomes like (Blistering incentive {spell}, Intimidating Glare {power}, Enforcer {feat})
I think I would have to play the Antagonize Feat as its own DC as it is Intimidating to ANTAGONIZE instead of Intimidate to DEMORALIZE. I would not count this check toward having tried Intimidate to Demoralize attempts at all. (as those are fear effects and antagonize is not).
Edit: Actually sorry to continue this but I do have a few more questions lol if you do Antagonize {Feat} someone who is panicked do they obey the feat or the fear effect, also does the try again part of that feat to extend the duration add the +5 DC to it, is it a factor of the feat and not skill so its ignored.
No apology necessary. Good questions. I would have to argue that panicked trumps, as it states on 563 Core "They flee from all other dangers that confront them rather than facing those dangers." (which would include an antagonist). Regarding whether to add +5 to the DC on the try again for the antagonist Feat, as a GM I would make it a straight "try again" roll, as it is special case that is particular to the Antagonize Feat, with no technical "retry" allowed for 1 day...meaning it is really a one shot deal that can last only 1 or maybe 2 rounds. That, along with the Sense Motive check is a swift action (allowed once per turn and it is not your next turn yet), so you would not be able to add that insight bonus on your second attempt.

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This level of fear does stack, per Core book Rule on page 563 "Becoming even more fearful", so your 3 "Enforcers" could each make a successful attack, followed by Free Action Intimidate checks, and take one opponent to the panicked state, assuming that the opponent didn't move between the attacks and flee out of "melee" range, as Enforcer is for melee attacks I believe.
This fear stacking applies regardless of source, same or different as long as one condition is still active as another is applied, so a Fear Spell cast on a shaken opponent from an Intimidate Check (who makes a saving throw from the fear, but because of it still has "Shaken" applied for 1 round) is instead "Frightened for that 1 round, then returns to the shaken status for the duration of the Intimidate Check, if any duration still remains... BUT no +5 DC would be applied to the Fear spell, as it is not an intimidation check.
This is incorrect, there is errata in place stating that the fear effect from Intimidate does not stack and cannot push a target past the shaken state. Nor does it stack with any other shaken condition.
You can use this skill to cause an opponent to become shaken for a number of rounds. This shaken condition doesn’t stack with other shaken conditions to make an affected creature frightened.