Monk of the Empty Hand and Arrows.


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

Does a Monk of the Empty Hand using an arrow as a weapon get the bonus to attacks and damage from it's enchantments? Do arrows made of special materials penetrate damage reduction when used this way?


You mean using it as a melee weapon?

(The following is opinion, as I can't find any RAW)

I would rule that you'd get any special material and enchantments that apply to melee attacks, though the ammunition would be destroyed once you hit.

If you were using a durable arrow you'd be able to hit with it multiple times and continue to gain the special material effect and masterwork bonus, if applicable. Any enchantments would still only last for the first hit, however.

Now the question becomes can you add melee enchantments to an arrow? I'd say yes, but they'd only trigger if using it as a melee weapon. I could imagine many DMs saying no, however, on the principle that enchantments can't be added to a weapon if that application of the weapon is considered improvised.

Grand Lodge

Would the effects of magic weapon go away after one attack with the arrow? It would most certainly be a durable arrow. Here is the rules for using arrows as melee weapons:

Arrows: An arrow used as a melee weapon is treated as
a light improvised weapon (–4 penalty on attack rolls) and
deals damage as a dagger of its size (critical multiplier ×2).
Arrows come in a leather quiver that holds 20 arrows.


some rules stuff on durable arrows wrote:
Drawback: If crafted with magic (such as bane), the magic only lasts for one use of the arrow, but the nonmagical arrow can still be reused or imbued with magic again.

"One use of the arrow" seems like it applies regardless.

Grand Lodge

The spell I mean, magic weapon.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
The spell I mean, magic weapon.

Ah, sorry.

Yes, the spell would function through the entire duration, even if you shot it from a bow. Durable arrows specify crafted enchantments.

Greater magic weapon is a little trickier. I think if you cast it on a single durable arrow and used it in melee, the enchantment would last for the duration of the spell. If you cast it on 50 durable arrows, then they fall into the "projectile" wording, and are one shot each. The tricky question is what happens if you cast it on a single durable arrow, and shot it. I'd say the enchantment should remain, because you didn't use the "projectile" version of the spell.

Grand Lodge

As the Monk is proficient with the arrow, would he be able to take weapon focus (arrow)?


I don't see anything that claims you gain proficiency; only that you don't suffer penalties.

Grand Lodge

Adam Moorhouse 759 wrote:
I don't see anything that claims you gain proficiency; only that you don't suffer penalties.

Well, that is sad. Would the previously answered questions apply as such if the arrows were used as throwing weapons?


Improvised throwing weapons? Sure.

There's an oracle favored class bonus that lets you reduce the non-proficiency penalty by 1 per class level. When the penalty hits 0, you are then considered proficient.

I'm not calling it RAW, but it's something you can show your DM as circumstantial evidence that saying you are proficient when you've reduced the penalties to 0 is not unreasonable.


I like where you are going with all this, by the way. Kinda makes me want to build a guy dual wielding adamantine crowbars. mmmm.

Grand Lodge

The Rough and Ready trait would help. For what profession or craft would an arrow be a tool for.
Also, could you use Bone arrows with the Splintering Weapon feat?

Grand Lodge

Could this be done as an Arcane Archer?


I'm not sure exactly what you're asking...

Enhance Arrows (Su) wrote:
At 1st level, every nonmagical arrow an arcane archer nocks and lets fly

If you're trying to get this with melee attacks, you're out of luck.

If you're trying to apply it in conjunction with splintering weapon... I'd say the arrows themselves should also be durable(ie count as a permanent weapon)

The only AA ability that should work in melee is the capstone.

Arrow of Death (Sp) wrote:
At 10th level, an arcane archer can create a special type of slaying arrow that forces the target, if damaged by the arrow's attack, to make a Fortitude save or be slain immediately. The DC of this save is equal to 20 + the arcane archer's Charisma modifier. It takes 1 day to make a slaying arrow, and the arrow only functions for the arcane archer who created it. The slaying arrow lasts no longer than 1 year, and the archer can only have one such arrow in existence at a time.

The intent maybe be a ranged attack, but pffft, not what it says.

Being an SLA, it would also only last the one attack, even with a durable arrow.

If you end up making an AA build like this, I'd be interested to see the result.

Grand Lodge

The "nocks and lets fly" sounds all flavor, and should be ignored rules wise.


Um no, they worded it like that because the enchantment goes onto the arrows as you shoot them...

Grand Lodge

Swiftness wrote:
Um no, they worded it like that because the enchantment goes onto the arrows as you shoot them...

With a name like yours, I find it quite humorous that you decided to put this two year old thread in it's place. ;)

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